Boro v Blackburn (A)

[Essuuaitch 330]

MV came out with flying colours last week due to putting a team out with players playing in roles they wwre at thier most effective (with the exception of rhys and maybe gibson) we also took the game to our opponents and imposed ourselves on thier defence .

Blackburn at full strength would have warrented a less gung ho approach but they werent at full strength and for me we should have set out the same as much as anything for continuity .

its almost as though the ghost of TM had a say in the team selection yesterday and any tiny chance MV may have given himself of being handed the job for any longer than interim has been quashed i think .

the two inclusions yesterday for me , that sealed it were Friend , who although offering pace and an attacking attitude simply does not have good basic defensive qualities which are vital . and Varga who hasnt settled into the set up .

[p_mards 1,365]

We have the basis of a good Championship squad that with a few right departures and incomings then we'll be capable of promotion, this season will be difficult but not impossible but continue the building job to get out of this division in the near future.

[Guest Changing Times]

Have you ever seen a group of players start two seasons so well only to end them so badly? They were the same players that started and ended them individual seasons, do you think that many players can all go off the boil all at the same time twice!!? If you think thats not mainly down to the management then you are the one that is f***ed in the head. MV has shown he's most likely going to be a tinkerman just like TM never having a settled side never having a settled formation and tactics where every player knows and is used to their roles within the team.

 

I think you need calm down a little.

 

So in your own words we have the same players and they do the same thing twice in a row and it's the fault of one person and nothing to do with all of them? Just have a little think about that for a moment before you reply. Mowbray had a fairly settled side and way of playing this season and it didn't seem to make a great deal of difference. In fact, part of the problem we had is that players were playing constantly that weren't performing at all (Whithead for example). People are going overboard on the back of one win against a poor side and thinking we can do that week in week out. The really crazy thing about that game of course is that MV made SIX changes for it but obviously that kind of tinkering is ok...

---

[

 

I don't agree with this at all. We've got a great set of players in the context of this league. They've mostly proved themselves individually on separate occasions, they need bringing together and played in a formation that best suits their individual talents. We haven't seen this yet.

 

That's fine mate, you're entitled to your opinion but I think the new manager's view will be closer to mine than yours and he'll be looking to move players on in the summer if he's able to do so. Proving yourself individually has to be about more than having a good game or two and I don't see who has produced long periods of good form at this level in this squad? Mowbray is ultimately responsible for results in his time here but I'm not convinced that only a change of manager will turn things around. We shall see though!

[Humpty 3,261]

Well we spent a good portion, half a season no less, in the top 6. Without actually getting promoted i don't know how much more proof you'd want. The players that have been brought in since then are all improvements on what we had/have.

 

I have no doubt a new manager would want to bring in new players, if a new manager doesn't then he isn't doing his job. I'm sure he'll want some of his own men in his corner too.

 

I'd also like to think the Doncaster performance was the proof in the pudding that these players are capable of greater things. As you say each to their own. I hope i'm proved right purely because it'll cost us less money!!

[Guest Changing Times]

Well we spent a good portion, half a season no less, in the top 6. Without actually getting promoted i don't know how much more proof you'd want. The players that have been brought in since then are all improvements on what we had/have.

 

I have no doubt a new manager would want to bring in new players, if a new manager doesn't then he isn't doing his job. I'm sure he'll want some of his own men in his corner too.

 

I'd also like to think the Doncaster performance was the proof in the pudding that these players are capable of greater things. As you say each to their own. I hope i'm proved right purely because it'll cost us less money!!

 

Oh I completely agree about that and hope I'm wrong as it will make things a lot easier for the new man when he's appointed. We spent a few months each season being decent and to be honest I think results flattered us at times, which is why I wasn't shocked when we faded albeit last seasons disaster was utterly ridiculous. I imagine you won't agree with that and that's fine but I think the season before last we were narrowly winning whilst not playing especially well for example. Last season we got lucky in some key early games where I don't think we played all that well but got results. I think there's also an argument to be made that we lost players that were key players in those two periods of time like Robson, Bailey, McDonald and Bikey.

 

I'm a lot less convinced than you that the replacements are better. I've seen nothing at all from Whitehead to suggest he should be anywhere near our side although I have to admit I've never rated the bloke and think he is incredibly limited. The same goes for Richardson. Butterfield has had one good breakthrough season then a bad injury so with respect we have no idea what he will do. Kamara has a lot to prove in my opinion but I am a big fan of Adomah so would have no issue with him being described as an improvement. Go through the rest of the squad and we have a left back that can't defend, a striker that isn't really a striker and seems reluctant to shoot, an ex captain that isn't a defender, isn't a midfielder so may find a home at right back, a winger that is at least as likely to be awful as he is good and some squad players that don't seem to add a great deal at all. I may well be being overly critical here so my opinion will be skewed as a result but I really don't see this squad in the same light as you. I think it has real weaknesses and I think some of the supposed key players could end up being first out the door under a new manager and to be honest I don't think I'd have a problem with that.

[beanflickingchampion 57]

Changing times posted:

I think you need calm down a little.

 

So in your own words we have the same players and they do the same thing twice in a row and it's the fault of one person and nothing to do with all of them? Just have a little think about that for a moment before you reply. Mowbray had a fairly settled side and way of playing this season and it didn't seem to make a great deal of difference. In fact, part of the problem we had is that players were playing constantly that weren't performing at all (Whithead for example). People are going overboard on the back of one win against a poor side and thinking we can do that week in week out. The really crazy thing about that game of course is that MV made SIX changes for it but obviously that kind of tinkering is ok...

 

Lol you are off your nut! How can MV make 6 changes to a side he had never even managed before???!!!!! And if you read what I wrote properly you will find I posted it's mainly the management to blame, not just the management. No wonder I need to calm down i don't have the patience talking sense into morons like you. The end lol.

[Guest Changing Times]

 

Lol you are off your nut! How can MV make 6 changes to a side he had never even managed before???!!!!! And if you read what I wrote properly you will find I posted it's mainly the management to blame, not just the management. No wonder I need to calm down i don't have the patience talking sense into morons like you. The end lol.

 

I think when people start throwing insults around they generally don't have a lot to say and you don't appear to be an exception to this sadly. Laughing at yourself is never a good sign either.

 

We made six changes to the side that had played the previous week and we won 4-0. So either you think that we won this game simply because we had a different person picking the team, which I think is pretty stupid, or you accept that we won precisely because the team was changed or tinkered with. I don't think we'd have won that game in the manner we did if we'd picked the same side as the game before and I suspect you don't think we would either. We won because the team was changed and here's another thing for you - pretty much every manager, including the great ones, does exactly the same thing.

[beanflickingchampion 57]

The lol's were for you, The doncaster match was the first match MV had ever managed and therfore is a clean slate, no tinkering could have occured until the next match, in which he changed the team, formation and tactics that had just won 4-0. MV took an unnecessary risk in my opinion in making those changes because less people would have argued if he had kept the same team and lost, then it would be mainly the players that would be getting scrutinised, perhaps leading the manager to take less of the blame. Just my opinion and prediction in hindsight I don't think we would have lost against blackburn if he had kept things the same as on his managerial debut. I think ayala CB and gibson at LB are improvements enough defensively to allow a more attacking 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 (how ever you want to put it) be played week in week out.

[holgater 6]

@justcalledtosay: Player ratings vs Bburn

 

Steele 8 world class save to keep us in the game. Did nothing wrong

Williams 6 mixed performance. Good at the back. Average going forward

Friend 4 all over the place. Doesn't look fit and AGAIN was positionally clueless

Woodgate 8 (MOTM) fantastic performance again

Ayala 7 confident display. Looks very assured if himself. I like him

Lbitter 5 worst game I've seen him play in a long time. Passing was abysmal. Saved from a 4 as his set pieces were good today

Swood 5 good 1st poor 2nd. Couldn't assert himself on the game

Varga 5 mostly annoymous. Looked confused as to his role

Adomah 6 had trouble finding space. Didn't have that much joy when he received the ball

Kamara 6 played out wide in the wrong position again imo. He's wasted out there.

Emnes 6 could've been a 7. Only real threat but he was often isolated and ineffective.

 

Venus 4 hit the formation and the team selection completely wrong. Looked like he was happy for a point when 3 were there for the taking. He bottled it. Friend didn't deserve to start nor did Carayol deserve to get dropped. Blackburn were there to be got at and sat and waited for them to attack us. We could've steam rolled them with our attack but we were on the back foot right through the game.

 

Disappointing. I don't want Venus until the end if the season. He's still Mowbrays man.

 

Great review. Agree with everything.

[andrewparkes 12]

Didnt hear to much of the game as was busy, but from what I heard, it sounded as though Venus had been getting tips from Mowbray. Cant understand the changes that were made, especially as Muzzy had a very good game against Doncaster and Gibson hadnt done much wrong... dont think they were carrying any sort of injury?

 

No need to change a winning team to be honest, but we seem to set u as if to say, yeah were a bit scared so will show you a bit more respect when in reality we could have got at them from the off with the attacking 4 we had against doncaster

[Armster 29]

Gibson yeh, fair point, but muzzy I can see the reason. We needed a bit more solidity in midfield and if we over stretched against Blackburn we would of been punished. with the extra strength in midfield their chances seemed few and far between, my only change would be having someone a little more creative in the middle like butterfield and change the shape that way.

[Guest Changing Times]

The lol's were for you, The doncaster match was the first match MV had ever managed and therfore is a clean slate, no tinkering could have occured until the next match, in which he changed the team, formation and tactics that had just won 4-0. MV took an unnecessary risk in my opinion in making those changes because less people would have argued if he had kept the same team and lost, then it would be mainly the players that would be getting scrutinised, perhaps leading the manager to take less of the blame. Just my opinion and prediction in hindsight I don't think we would have lost against blackburn if he had kept things the same as on his managerial debut. I think ayala CB and gibson at LB are improvements enough defensively to allow a more attacking 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 (how ever you want to put it) be played week in week out.

 

Sorry to labour this point but you seem to be avoiding it. Would we in your opinion have won the game against Doncaster in the way we did without changing the side? Yes or no? I know what your answer is and so do you so stop being awkward. Changing the team or tinkering isn't the issue, the issue is the changes that are made and how they effect things. The best managers in the world change their teams depending on the opposition - Mourinho went to Man Utd this season and didn't play a striker for example. Do you think he'll do the same when they play at home against Crystal Palace? Course he bloody won't.

 

MV took no risk at all in making the changes made. He'll have known all to well that he had to separate himself from Mowbray if he had any designs on getting the job full time as a Mowbray mk II isn't going to be acceptable to Gibson or the fans.

 

I don't think the changes he made for the Blackburn game were good ones myself. I don't like Kamara on the left and I don't like Emnes up top as he can't play there. I also think a midfield three of Varga, Smallwood and Leadbitter is unnecessarily negative but I suspect this was picked because of the problem we have with Friend at left back. He's clearly asked/expected to push on as much as possible but when he does he leaves us exposed. So whilst I disagree with them as you do, I can appreciate why he made these changes.

[Neverbefore 10,942]

First butterfield not picked in a 3 man midfield, now hes in the u21 squad. Whats going on?

[p_mards 1,365]

Butterfield must be gutted Mowbray was sacked as he was a key player under him and now being unable to get into Venus' plans. Hopefully whoever our new manager is, he gives him a chance to be a first team regular as he's by far our best creative/attack minded midfielder so it will be a shame to see him sit on the bench and then eventually offloaded in January.

[Guest Changing Times]

First butterfield not picked in a 3 man midfield, now hes in the u21 squad. Whats going on?

 

Maybe just wants him to get some game time?