'Other Boro stuff'

[RealSlimSladeyy 769]

9 minutes ago, Borodane said:

We're not abandoning a new direction though. The stuff that was said in the summer was obviously something grasped out of thin air. We look completely aimless both on and off the field. Shambles in every departmant. Gibson took the cheapest path possible and that is about the only new direction we can muster.

Signing Pulis wasn't the fault per se. It was the timing of signing him. Had we signed him in january while in the prem it would have made sense. If we signed him now to help us avoid relegation it would make sense. It didn't make sense to sign him when we wanted to get promoted let alone extend his contract af that abject playoff debacle. It was clear to everyone (almost) but Gibson that you don't sign Pulis to win promotion. You sign him not to lose to relegation.  Signing Warnock now on a short term contract to make sure we aren't relegated will make sense as the season is over anyway in regards of moving forward. It's damage control from now on and Woodgate isn't the answer for that. 

Warnock won't be a long term answer, just like Pulis shouldn't have been, but he is one of the better answers if we want to avoid the complete disaster of relegation to League 1. 

I... I think we agree. The club are full of ***.

[Duvel 2,446]

1 hour ago, Blanco said:

And how do you know if he's ready or not if he isn't tried in the position? If they now think that his appointment was a bit premature, it might make sense to bring in an experienced mentor now to nurture him a bit further.

Well yeah you never know until you give him a chance. However, it wasn't hard to predict that this was going to happen. 

Bringing in an experienced man to mentor Woodgate is just admitting that he isn't ready though in my opinion. 

[SouthernSmoggie 4,242]

5 hours ago, RealSlimSladeyy said:

That may be so, the club's hand may be forced in an effort to keep us up. However, abandoning our supposed new direction less than 6 months after it was announced would be an embarrassment. All this would really highlight to me is the club's failure to commit to the new direction in the summer. They gave us rhetoric and nothing else. Frauds, the lot of them.

Oh for sure - it will definitely be an embarrassment to totally abandon this project. But that's where we are in my opinion. The 'project' died when gave the job of overhauling a jaded defensively-minded squad into a high-pressing attack-minded one to a rookie management team.

[SouthernSmoggie 4,242]

5 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

That's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying changing manager right now to avoid relegation, changing to Warnock to do that, will go right back into the territory of Pulis for a large number of fans. Whatever your position on Woodgate's ability, changing to a manager who can just help us avoid relegation with very little hope of developing this brand of football people so desire is going to ire and provide distaste to some people. It was bad enough when we were up at the top end of the table, do you really think people are going to welcome 'avoiding relegation' with crap football as a means to prevent their apathy of us?

Basically... if we can avoid relegation with Woodgate and show any level of improvement in our game whilst doing it, the kind of stuff that was seen against Hull before the red card, that will go a little bit further to helping rebuild the positive feelings towards the club... instead of accepting our fate right now as being too far-gone and changing back to a more functional brand of play with a manager who doesn't know how else to play just to maintain our position in this division.

I'm not against Warnock ever coming in, I'd obviously rather be a Championship team than a League One team, I just think it's too early to throw in the towel on whatever semblance of a plan we have with Woodgate for the sake of getting Warnock.

But are the potential upsides of staying up with Woodgate really that high? What even is his desired style and brand of football? Honestly I think that Hull goal was just a bit of invention by the players, and nothing to do with training ground work or tactics. 

I think we could maybe even score more goals and see more enjoyable football under Warnock. If we can get him on a short term deal for the rest of the season to keep us up then I would go for it - he's done it before for Rotherham. 

Then we have to try again for a new manager in the Summer - maybe it'll fail again, maybe not. But I'd rather do that than risk League 1.

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

17 minutes ago, SouthernSmoggie said:

But are the potential upsides of staying up with Woodgate really that high? What even is his desired style and brand of football? Honestly I think that Hull goal was just a bit of invention by the players, and nothing to do with training ground work or tactics. 

I think we could maybe even score more goals and see more enjoyable football under Warnock. If we can get him on a short term deal for the rest of the season to keep us up then I would go for it - he's done it before for Rotherham. 

Then we have to try again for a new manager in the Summer - maybe it'll fail again, maybe not. But I'd rather do that than risk League 1.

I think the way he wants to play football is pretty clear to me, tbh. From what I saw early season with the 4-3-3, from the pre-match drills, etc. The pressing was high, the passing was quick and meant to play through teams. It's why we've actually looked capable of doing something against teams who try to play out from the back.

I think he has definitely gone back to basics a fair bit with regards to our change in formation and stuff but I think that largely comes down to personnel and it's also nothing short of what people on here were asking him to do anyway, for the sake of picking up some points. I also think it's a bit mad to think a move like the one Fletcher scored vs. Hull is just down to the individual players involved. It's pretty similar to the kind of quick thinking in attacking areas that I've seen Keane practice with the players just pre-match. It actually just makes it look like you just don't want to credit the coaching staff with anything at all and the only way you get to that conclusion is by not giving them any credit where it's actually due.

Warnock isn't going to come in and change the way he's played elsewhere and that was by and large built on a similar brand of football to Pulis. He'd also need wingers just as much as Pulis and Woodgate needs them so if we are to expect anything different out of Warnock than the other 2, you actually have to give him the players to do it. In which case, why bother giving the job to him now at all? It's far too soon to be considering it, for me. We certainly won't score a great deal more or see more enjoyable football out of Warnock without giving him the players.

We're not at any more significant risk of League One right now than quite a few other teams in the division. I'd say the only team that is really at threat of relegation right now is Barnsley but even they are only a couple of wins away from dragging themselves outside of the bottom 3, not a great deal to ask for when you're 4 games off the half-way point. There's QPR, Charlton and Wigan now heading down in worse form than us too, the situation really isn't as dire as needing to jump at a new manager right away. We're hovering just above it right now with some really important home games to come. Take those one game at a time and see how it goes before we consider Woodgate's future.

[p_mards 1,365]

Next to nobody wanted Woodgate and he only got it because Gibson wanted to do his mate a favour. And now, thanks to that, we're deep in a relegation battle and the prospect of giving Warnock - a fellow dinosaur alongside Pulis - doesn't seem all that bad compared to Woodgate as we're staring down the barrel of relegation if not. Gibson has overseen this mess, and continues to never learn from his mistakes.

My betting is on Gibson giving Woodgate until around Christmas time to turn things around - which is incidentally around the time Warnock has indicated he would consider a new job again, but if not we'll be doing to good old Steve Gibson's headless chicken, 180 degrees spin around and head back to dinosaur land with Warnock. 

The key line that stands out within the Evening Gazette article is "But that patience could be stretched to breaking point if Boro don't make the most of their coming three Riverside meetings with fellow strugglers Charlton , Stoke and Huddersfield." If we don't do well in them games them I think Woodgate will be gone. Also, as we all know that the Evening Gazette are Boro's unofficial mouth-piece, if we had no interest in Warnock then surely the Evening Gazette Article would have been far more stronger with its rebuttal of Warnock as a candidate, especially considering this apparently new direction of fast, attacking football and the promise of young players. If we had no interest then surely the article will have gone a lot further to write off Warnock.

[Downsouth 6,326]

You have got to ask yourself what is there still to come?

[Lord_Moose 387]

So he's going to give Woodgate time to turn it around but when is enough, enough? 

We are floating as is 1 win in 10 or whatever it is, outside the relegation zone (after just exiting it) on goal difference and we've just been stuffed 4-0 without even making a dent. Is Gibson going to wait till after January and it's already a foregone conclusion that we are going down?

Personally I'm now subscribed to the theory that Woodgate is bullet proof and no amount of fan unrest will matter whilst Gibbo cuts his cloth after his monumental balls ups. 

I wasn't alive to see potential liquidation so for me this is the lowest moment in my time as a Boro fan.

[p_mards 1,365]

If we don't stop the rot very soon then we could easily end up like Sunderland. That's why giving Warnock half a season to get us clear of the relegation zone and sort out some of the mess here isn't the most abhorrent thought, though only because of the mess that we're in. We have no intelligence from Gibson and co to be able to implement any sort of successful, winning with style philosophy. We're a shambles of a club. The successful period under Karanka feels an absolute fluke for the club to have go it right for once.

[Downsouth 6,326]

Whilst there are teams below us all we have to do is match and just better their results which means that his seasons plan worked.

All very sad from where we were to where we are

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

17 minutes ago, Lord_Moose said:

So he's going to give Woodgate time to turn it around but when is enough, enough? 

We are floating as is 1 win in 10 or whatever it is, outside the relegation zone (after just exiting it) on goal difference and we've just been stuffed 4-0 without even making a dent. Is Gibson going to wait till after January and it's already a foregone conclusion that we are going down?

Personally I'm now subscribed to the theory that Woodgate is bullet proof and no amount of fan unrest will matter whilst Gibbo cuts his cloth after his monumental balls ups. 

I wasn't alive to see potential liquidation so for me this is the lowest moment in my time as a Boro fan.

I would think enough is enough either if we lose one of the next 3 home games and/or if our PPG puts us to finish in the bottom 3 of last season. As it is, 41+ points would be a safe position in last year's table, which is what we'd be on keeping up the current season-long trend.

[Lord_Moose 387]

7 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I would think enough is enough either if we lose one of the next 3 home games and/or if our PPG puts us to finish in the bottom 3 of last season. As it is, 41+ points would be a safe position in last year's table, which is what we'd be on keeping up the current season-long trend.

I hope you're right and that isn't just even more fluff from the club. I could see the club putting out some kind of statement later on in the season saying they think Woodgate is the man to take us back up (from league 1) 

[TeaCider24 12,639]

25 minutes ago, p_mards said:

If we don't stop the rot very soon then we could easily end up like Sunderland. That's why giving Warnock half a season to get us clear of the relegation zone and sort out some of the mess here isn't the most abhorrent thought, though only because of the mess that we're in. We have no intelligence from Gibson and co to be able to implement any sort of successful, winning with style philosophy. We're a shambles of a club. The successful period under Karanka feels an absolute fluke for the club to have go it right for once.

Sunderland tried to stop the rot even earlier than this, they sacked Simon Grayson in October, appointed Chris Coleman mid November, it just got worse.

I think there are more poor teams in the Championship this season than when Sunderland went down, and honestly think we'll stay up whether Woodgate stays or goes.

I still think they should go though.

[Neverbefore 10,940]

I think we need to move away from thinking this project has been a failure. The implementation to this point has been a failure. That includes recruitment, coaching, management and results. But for once i want us to stick to our guns and follow through with the ideas we had, because generally they were good and positive ideas. 

Appointing warnock would just tear the whole thing up and start again. Again. If were to replace woodgate we have to get someone who can carry the project forward or were back to square one and will be years behind.

[TeaCider24 12,639]

Woodgate hasn't stuck to his guns.

He gave up on it 7 games in to the season and has never tried to go back to it.

Whether Woodgate stays or goes, we're not trying to stick to the blueprint laid out at the start of the season.