'Other Boro stuff'

[Changing Times 12,338]

2 hours ago, Denzel Zanzibar said:

RE: Bayern Munich, it's true:

https://www.mfc.co.uk/news/a-history-of-boro-against-german-opposition

It's not often that the Austro-Hungarian empire gets a shout out these days 👍

[Neverbefore 10,933]

A key pass counts the pass before a shot - this includes blocked shots, shots on target, off target, corners, free kicks, everything. It's not the best indicator of actual ability, especially in a  team that shoots from 30 yards quite regularly as we do. Howson, wing, tav all love a speculative effort.

[DanFromDownSouth 1,706]

3 hours ago, Old Codger said:

Ahhh..............so the assassination of Franz Ferdinand wasn't the real reason they shot at my granddad then........I remember him saying that every time we got a really good team, war broke out....at least we now have peace in our time   

Gavrillo Princep was sent by the Geordies!

[Changing Times 12,338]

1 hour ago, Brunners said:

Which is the thing - I'm sure we've found in the past that it's far more lenient than this.

I'm sure I remember @Changing Times being involved in the discussion so hopefully his good memory can come in handy here and he can let me know if I'm remembering correctly?

Looks like it's already been answered 👍

Regarding Johnson, as you'd probably expect, quite a lot of his key passes come from crosses (more than half) but not all of them so he has a few through balls and such as well.  It's a stat that tends to be skewed towards people who take set pieces or those out wide who get plenty of crosses in I'd say.  It's not exclusively about that but I think it certainly helps to boost the numbers.  Johnson is only ranked 39th in the Championship, the top players have more than 60 key passes so far, including one S Downing.  As a team we are actually right in the middle of the Championship for key passes so we tend to spread them around more than most.  The fact that we have a reasonable key pass amount but a low goals total probably tells us what we already know that we miss a fair amount of our shots/chances.

[wilsoncgp 9,276]

Kind of feels like we could do with an extra stat for in-play key passes, removing set-pieces. I'm sure the opposite is just as valuable too if you want to find good set-piece takers.

[Borodane 6,294]

2 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

Kind of feels like we could do with an extra stat for in-play key passes, removing set-pieces. I'm sure the opposite is just as valuable too if you want to find good set-piece takers.

Pass completion and cross completion should be good indicators. 

[wilsoncgp 9,276]

21 minutes ago, Borodane said:

Pass completion and cross completion should be good indicators. 

Pass completion as a whole isn't quite the same though. Cross completion, maybe but still doesn't determine the quality of the cross if the cross finds the wrong man. But pass completion stats are going to go up even if you're a centre-back who only ever passes to their partner and full-backs. More thinking of basically just taking everyone's key pass stats and taking out those given to set-pieces. Then you could have in-play key passes, set-piece key passes and overall key passes.

[Changing Times 12,338]

28 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

Pass completion as a whole isn't quite the same though. Cross completion, maybe but still doesn't determine the quality of the cross if the cross finds the wrong man. But pass completion stats are going to go up even if you're a centre-back who only ever passes to their partner and full-backs. More thinking of basically just taking everyone's key pass stats and taking out those given to set-pieces. Then you could have in-play key passes, set-piece key passes and overall key passes.

You can work it out easily enough yourself as they do separate the key pass types.  So for example, John Swift at Reading has the highest number of key passes with 67.  Of those, 17 have been corners and 8 have been freekicks apparently.  Downing, who I mentioned earlier, is joint 5th with 60 key passes.  Of those, 20 have been corners and 6 have been freekicks.  Most of the top 10 seem to have taken at least a few set pieces (10 or more) with a few 20+ and Phillips at Leeds has 36 from set pieces alone.  There is one player in the top 10 however who has no set piece key passes at all and that is Klich at Leeds who has 52.  Inside the top 20, Leeds have 3 players, Brentford have 3 players, QPR, Fulham, Hull and Swansea each have 2 players.  You can probably guess a lot of the names in the top 20 without looking but one or two might surprise people.  

For us, Marvin Johnson only has 4 corners and 2 freekicks in his total of 34 whilst Wing has 9 set pieces out of 28.  Fletcher, Tavernier and McNair each have 27 but Fletcher has no set pieces included in his total at all.  If you move away from total number and look at per 90 mins, Johnson still tops the list for us but in second and third place are Roberts and Spence.  Roberts only has 4 so far because he's hardly played but only 1 of those is from open play.  I wonder if that was the penalty he won against Birmingham?

[Brunners 7,981]

So that suggests then that Fletcher is helping create a lot from open play? Because actual assists aren't counted are they? So he's had 27 passes result in a "chance", as well as like 4 assists and 9 goals (7 championship). Pretty solid season so far from Ash.

Although again, I wonder how many of Fletchers key passes are layoffs for someone to shoot from 30 yards.

[wilsoncgp 9,276]

13 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

You can work it out easily enough yourself as they do separate the key pass types.  So for example, John Swift at Reading has the highest number of key passes with 67.  Of those, 17 have been corners and 8 have been freekicks apparently.  Downing, who I mentioned earlier, is joint 5th with 60 key passes.  Of those, 20 have been corners and 6 have been freekicks.  Most of the top 10 seem to have taken at least a few set pieces (10 or more) with a few 20+ and Phillips at Leeds has 36 from set pieces alone.  There is one player in the top 10 however who has no set piece key passes at all and that is Klich at Leeds who has 52.  Inside the top 20, Leeds have 3 players, Brentford have 3 players, QPR, Fulham, Hull and Swansea each have 2 players.  You can probably guess a lot of the names in the top 20 without looking but one or two might surprise people.  

For us, Marvin Johnson only has 4 corners and 2 freekicks in his total of 34 whilst Wing has 9 set pieces out of 28.  Fletcher, Tavernier and McNair each have 27 but Fletcher has no set pieces included in his total at all.  If you move away from total number and look at per 90 mins, Johnson still tops the list for us but in second and third place are Roberts and Spence.  Roberts only has 4 so far because he's hardly played but only 1 of those is from open play.  I wonder if that was the penalty he won against Birmingham?

Interesting stuff. Where are you pulling the stats from? Roberts has 4 on WhoScored, 2 from corners. The other 2 were both against Derby, one a free-kick he seems to have dragged back from the left-wing to just outside the box on the left and one from seemingly cutting inside from the right and passing across to the edge of the box. Only the corners actually ended up in the box out of the 4 listed.

[Changing Times 12,338]

2 minutes ago, Brunners said:

So that suggests then that Fletcher is helping create a lot from open play? Because actual assists aren't counted are they? So he's had 27 passes result in a "chance", as well as like 4 assists and 9 goals (7 championship). Pretty solid season so far from Ash.

Although again, I wonder how many of Fletchers key passes are layoffs for someone to shoot from 30 yards.

Some of them I guess would be shots that have been saved or blocked and fallen to another player to shoot again but I suspect a lot would be from open play as he does work hard and he has played out wide a bit as well.  I think they have started recording the quality chances but I don't have that information.  At least then you can differentiate between the 30 yard shot that goes 10 yards over the bar and the clever through ball that puts someone one on one with the keeper.

If you look at the league as a whole, there is one team that kinda stands out with it's placement in the rankings for key passes and that's Barnsley who are fourth and are actually second in total shots this season.  Seems a bit weird given their league placing but then I thought they played better than us at our place for much of the game, until we scored at least, but they obviously didn't score.  The other teams up at the top are those you'd expect - Leeds, Brentford, Fulham and West Brom. 

Interestingly (or not) though, Boro's 10th ranked player has more key passes than any of the 10th ranked players at Leeds, Brentford, Fulham or WBA.  I suppose that supports the idea that ours are more spread out than others and we also seem to have more players with at least one key pass than any of them as we have 21 players with a key pass this season.  One player who needs to up his game is Coulson as he's not doing anywhere near as well as he should be.  He needs to work on his crossing/final ball as it's not good enough at the moment but I think you can probably tell that from the games even without the stats to back it up.

[Changing Times 12,338]

20 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

Interesting stuff. Where are you pulling the stats from? Roberts has 4 on WhoScored, 2 from corners. The other 2 were both against Derby, one a free-kick he seems to have dragged back from the left-wing to just outside the box on the left and one from seemingly cutting inside from the right and passing across to the edge of the box. Only the corners actually ended up in the box out of the 4 listed.

I just make them up, mate.  If any of them ever get close to being correct I get a semi on 👍

[Old Codger 3,062]

I never realised you moved in semi circles

[boroie 484]

LOL. Howson describing his position: "Johnny Howson...errr.... 2"

Also Saville looking like he's lurking outside a playground? Weird video all round 😄

https://www.facebook.com/136780779703119/posts/2740771782637326

[Will 2,958]

1 hour ago, boroie said:

LOL. Howson describing his position: "Johnny Howson...errr.... 2"

Also Saville looking like he's lurking outside a playground? Weird video all round 😄

https://www.facebook.com/136780779703119/posts/2740771782637326

They’re predicting how many times they’ll hit the bar