'Other Boro stuff'

[Denzel Zanzibar 6,968]

Bit hypocritical of us to be slating NML when we've had the likes of Woodgate and Downing at the club, no?

[Uwe 3,545]

17 minutes ago, Denzel Zanzibar said:

Bit hypocritical of us to be slating NML when we've had the likes of Woodgate and Downing at the club, no?

Not really. As long as it’s the same people that slated Woody & Downing. 

[Redcar Rioja 5,974]

2 hours ago, Uwe said:

Not really. As long as it’s the same people that slated Woody & Downing. 

Unfortunately over the years now Boro could easily field a team of Players with unsavoury incidents or addictions associated with them. It's something that does make me uncomfortable about the Club's moral compass. Some are more serious than others like Marlon King while some are just sad like Merse and then there is Gazza sitting somewhere in between. 

[TLF10 4,493]

To be fair to Mendez I dont know what personal issues he was going through that led him to take drugs. If he was at all. But he has alluded to fact he went through the bad time so hopefully he over that now.

Reason I make above comment is last week I made a comment to my Liverpool supporting friend that they manager was sounding like a right ar*e on tv of late but then it came out his mother was really ill and sadly passed away so that maybe explained why he was being so touchy and short in his interview 

We just don't know what personal battles any person is facing. All we can hope is they overcome them. In Mendez case I hope he has overcome them.  

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884]

1 hour ago, Redcar Rioja said:

Unfortunately over the years now Boro could easily field a team of Players with unsavoury incidents or addictions associated with them. It's something that does make me uncomfortable about the Club's moral compass. Some are more serious than others like Marlon King while some are just sad like Merse and then there is Gazza sitting somewhere in between. 

Blimey, the lad just snorted some coke, he didn’t beat up his wife, he didn’t beat up an Asian guy outside a night club, he didn’t cheat on his missus, He didn’t book Icelandic call girls during a lockdown. He took something to make him feel good.
I really don’t see a problem here, it’s not the best thing for a professional footballer to do, but it’s less harmful than smoking or drinking, it’s certainly not immoral, who can honestly say they haven’t enjoyed the odd mood enhancer here and there?

Edited February 13, 2021 by BillyWoofs_shinpad

[Denzel Zanzibar 6,968]

58 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

Blimey, the lad just snorted some coke, he didn’t beat up his wife, he didn’t beat up an Asian guy outside a night club, he didn’t cheat on his missus, He didn’t book Icelandic call girls during a lockdown. He took something to make him feel good.
I really don’t see a problem here, it’s not the best thing for a professional footballer to do, but it’s less harmful than smoking or drinking, it’s certainly not immoral, who can honestly say they haven’t enjoyed the odd mood enhancer here and there?

I'd certainly be a hypocrite if I slated NML or any Boro player for snorting a bit of the old Colombian marching powder tbf, but then again I'm not a professional footballer getting paid tens of thousands a week, and I'm not supposed to be a role model to any young impressionable fans.

(Also I don't do it any more)

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884]

13 minutes ago, Denzel Zanzibar said:

I'd certainly be a hypocrite if I slated NML or any Boro player for snorting a bit of the old Colombian marching powder tbf, but then again I'm not a professional footballer getting paid tens of thousands a week, and I'm not supposed to be a role model to any young impressionable fans.

(Also I don't do it any more)

I’m sure whoever you worked for at the time, regardless of how much you were earning would have preferred you not to be on the white stuff, it’s no different with NML. It’s human to err and it’s human to want to experience different things. 
I’m not convinced by the footballers as role models argument, what they do in their private life is their concern. 

[Neverbefore 10,937]

I think the issue here for me is definitely the recurring instances. You would assume that the lad was given a very clear final warning after the first time yet months later he gets caught again. Doesn't say much for how highly he values his career or his desire to be the best he can be does it?

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884]

2 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

I think the issue here for me is definitely the recurring instances. You would assume that the lad was given a very clear final warning after the first time yet months later he gets caught again. Doesn't say much for how highly he values his career or his desire to be the best he can be does it?

Addiction isn’t that simple. Hopefully he’s had treatment. 

[Denzel Zanzibar 6,968]

11 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

I’m sure whoever you worked for at the time, regardless of how much you were earning would have preferred you not to be on the white stuff, it’s no different with NML. It’s human to err and it’s human to want to experience different things. 
I’m not convinced by the footballers as role models argument, what they do in their private life is their concern. 

Woolworths, and I admitted it to my manager on the day we closed for good. She said she knew, she'd known for ages, and she wasn't really bothered lol.

If I'd had to take regular drug tests at work though it probably would have been a very different matter. NML was caught once and then got caught again. You have to question the mentality of someone like that.

[TLF10 4,493]

It might not even be an addiction. Just a way of coping/blocking out a personally horrible time for him. We can only speculate for his reasons for taking it.

I am happy to give him a chance to redeem himself here and hopefully he does well and we keep him on a longer term deal in summer where both he and Warnock. As on his day he a very useful player at this level.

[AnglianRed 6,320]

48 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

I’m sure whoever you worked for at the time, regardless of how much you were earning would have preferred you not to be on the white stuff, it’s no different with NML. It’s human to err and it’s human to want to experience different things. 
I’m not convinced by the footballers as role models argument, what they do in their private life is their concern. 

I think the problem is that a lot of kids (particularly aspiring footballers) see them as roles models, whether we want them to or not.

Its the old adage of "monkey see, monkey do". If kids see their idols doing this sort of stuff, they're likely to copy them, if and when the opportunity arises.

I'm sure most footballers don't see themselves as role models and don't want that particular responsibility, just as most (decent) parents wouldn't encourage their kids to act like many footballers...whether it be due to their on-pitch antics, or other things.

But it happens nevertheless...

 

[KeithLambsFaxMachine 727]

1 hour ago, AnglianRed said:

I think the problem is that a lot of kids (particularly aspiring footballers) see them as roles models, whether we want them to or not.

I remember when Richard Bacon was sacked instantly from Blue Peter when he admitted taking cocaine. Similar reasons were given by the BBC. 

I always thought it would have been a better message if he’d been given the chance to explain what he’d done and why. Hell, they could have done an excellent lot of work by standing by him. Would have been a better role model for making a mistake, apologising and working to rectify it. 

NML? I hope he’s in a better place now and repays Warnock’s faith in him. 

[Humpty 3,260]

On 2/12/2021 at 11:47 AM, wilsoncgp said:

I made the comment that you'd say Bielsa was lucky to inherit 3 players, including Kalvin Phillips. Your comment is that he's an England International. Now either you're being intentionally unclear about what you're trying to say and ultimately saying absolutely nothing, just making a statement that Kalvin Phillips is an England international. In which case, you've not actually responded to my point at all.

Or you're saying Bielsa was lucky to inherit Kalvin Phillips because he's an England international. Despite the fact he wasn't when Bielsa took over, Bielsa is a huge part of why he's an England international, Phillips didn't get there entirely of his own accord. To use your own words. 'Silly to suggest otherwise'.

I can understand why you don't want to be on the forum if you don't actually have a point to make, mind. You're more than welcome to make a judgement of the forum's quality whilst not in any way contributing to it but I don't think anybody gives a toss. Still, it's interesting that oneBoro is apparently 'no better than FMTTM', a comment I'm pretty sure you've made before you left last time and yet here you are again. If you don't want to contribute on here, I'm sure you realise after the last few years that you don't actually have to. You probably had as much reason as anyone to move on after the whole admin situation a while back and yet I'll repeat that, you're here again. If this really is such a bad place for people to come and talk about the Boro, football or whatever, why are you here exactly?

Were you having a bad day? You seem more concerned about why I stopped posting than I was because I can’t really recall what the moderator thing was about. FMTTM was a bit more lively at the time and little less directly aggressive. These message boards are usually time wasters for me. I don’t take them too seriously. Clearly that’s not the case for you.

Even so, you should consider being a little more understanding of other people’s perspective and points of view. Just because a discussion doesn’t suit your narrative doesn’t mean a point hasn’t been made. It’s this lack of understanding that can come across as aggressive to new users. 

Not that you deserve further explanation after your tirade but my point was that Karanka wasn’t left with a group of donkeys, much in the same way Bielsa wasn’t. Phillips is clearly a player with ability. That’s why he plays for England. You don’t coach bad players into England internationals. With Karanka the spine of the team was there and that’s the hardest element to establish when you’re building an ethos.

I’ll concede that Karanka was good at drilling a team tactically and maintaining a good shape at Championship level. As I said in another thread an average manager and a decent coach that fell in to very favourable circumstances.

[wilsoncgp 9,280]

1 hour ago, Humpty said:

Were you having a bad day? You seem more concerned about why I stopped posting than I was because I can’t really recall what the moderator thing was about. FMTTM was a bit more lively at the time and little less directly aggressive. These message boards are usually time wasters for me. I don’t take them too seriously. Clearly that’s not the case for you.

Even so, you should consider being a little more understanding of other people’s perspective and points of view. Just because a discussion doesn’t suit your narrative doesn’t mean a point hasn’t been made. It’s this lack of understanding that can come across as aggressive to new users. 

Not that you deserve further explanation after your tirade but my point was that Karanka wasn’t left with a group of donkeys, much in the same way Bielsa wasn’t. Phillips is clearly a player with ability. That’s why he plays for England. You don’t coach bad players into England internationals. With Karanka the spine of the team was there and that’s the hardest element to establish when you’re building an ethos.

I’ll concede that Karanka was good at drilling a team tactically and maintaining a good shape at Championship level. As I said in another thread an average manager and a decent coach that fell in to very favourable circumstances.

There's an irony in you coming back on here to try and dictate forum etiquette from the perspective of someone who doesn't take them seriously and towards someone who does. By all means, continue to try and teach us how these things you give such little thought to actually work.

At no point in this discussion have I refused to accept or try to understand your point of view, there's merits to it. But one part of what you said didn't ring true to me so I challenged that, made my own points as to why I disagree. That was when you actually were making a point. You then called me silly for one part of what I'd said. And I should be more understanding of other people's perspective and points of view? Hah.

That's the point at which this no longer became a discussion but, unlike the way you've directed this post to frame me as a person who operates with little care or understanding for others' opinions, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and decided to further challenge your perspective. Nothing aggressive about it, just hoping for you to actually discuss the point more. I made the point, framed around the idea that both Karanka and Bielsa were as lucky as one another to walk into a club that had players who previously had never reached any particularly recognisable peak in their careers but both made them better players. In my opinion, there's not that much luck involved around how Bielsa walked into a team with the 3 players I named because they weren't previously doing anything of note, they were bang average at this level just like Leeds as a team were.

Your rebuttal? Kalvin Phillips is an England international. Something you're now telling me is about how Phillips could always have been an England international. Not what you said but okay. So naturally bad players can't play for England? History books probably wouldn't agree with you there I'm sure, there's one name from our own history that comes to mind... but that's not the point I'm making any more. At least three people on here didn't understand that was the point you were trying to make and yet you wrote it and posted it anyway, apparently under the impression that we would. So when it comes to understanding, who has failed there?

The stupidest part in all of this is you've actually now given me a response, one you clearly realise is needed in the absence of understanding, however much you feel I deserve it or not. So you have acknowledged you didn't give nearly enough information in your original posts but have had a go at me for not understanding it to begin with.

Anyone who has been in a discussion with me on this forum knows I take it seriously, of course I do. Maybe more than I should sometimes, for sure. But that's really got very little to do with the problem here. The only thing that really dictates is that I'll put a fair amount of thought (and as can be seen here, words) into what I say before I say it and I'll try to do it with the best intentions more often than not.