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One tends to assume we have medical professionals who would find it easy to treat a simple case of fluid.  Hence if RA is correct we are looking at an underlying medical condition

If it has been "hushed up" as you put it to obtain a contract is that not fraud ?

If so then repudiation of the contract should be straightforward but do we need to consider damages also ?

This is a very uncharitable interpretation of the situation and it may be more practical to go down the insurance route as I'm sure we are insured for loss resulting from those who can no longer play

I do not believe however that they don't know what the problem is.  They may not wish to disclose it.  You guys can speculate on the reasons as well as I and in many cases far better 

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The frustrating thing with regards to the Ameobi signing is we can all see right now that we don't need him. Warnock said Jones would have probably been back at Queen of the South or somewhere else like that had Ameobi not got this injury.

That, to me, raises the question of why didn't we know Jones was ready? Why were we so willing to send him out when we can see from the time he has had on the pitch that he's ready for this level of football as opposed to the Scottish Championship?

Obviously the loan he had last time out didn't make a jot of difference to how we viewed him, probably because even if he plays well in the Scottish Championship that doesn't mean crap for how well he'll do in the English Championship. So do players really need to go out and play? Is that going to make us feel any different about them at all? If Wood also plays 12 games this season at Hibs, are we gonna feel any different about him?

I really hope Scott helps us try to bring a few lads through every year and we stop just filling the gaps where we can suitably take a risk and get them involved. Warnock has said it himself about Olusanya, players get better when they play with better players. It's pretty much at odds with his view on players who just need to go out and play somewhere else when we can't seem to get our young players into teams that would legitimately improve them. Of course, the difference there is likely Olusanya is his player...

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2 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

The frustrating thing with regards to the Ameobi signing is we can all see right now that we don't need him. Warnock said Jones would have probably been back at Queen of the South or somewhere else like that had Ameobi not got this injury.

That, to me, raises the question of why didn't we know Jones was ready? Why were we so willing to send him out when we can see from the time he has had on the pitch that he's ready for this level of football as opposed to the Scottish Championship?

Obviously the loan he had last time out didn't make a jot of difference to how we viewed him, probably because even if he plays well in the Scottish Championship that doesn't mean crap for how well he'll do in the English Championship. So do players really need to go out and play? Is that going to make us feel any different about them at all? If Wood also plays 12 games this season at Hibs, are we gonna feel any different about him?

I really hope Scott helps us try to bring a few lads through every year and we stop just filling the gaps where we can suitably take a risk and get them involved. Warnock has said it himself about Olusanya, players get better when they play with better players. It's pretty much at odds with his view on players who just need to go out and play somewhere else when we can't seem to get our young players into teams that would legitimately improve them. Of course, the difference there is likely Olusanya is his player...

Really can’t see wood playing much for hibs. We should have kept him and played him this season. Even if bamba is slightly better than him(not saying he is, just might be) we should be starting wood because of all the potential he has

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28 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

The frustrating thing with regards to the Ameobi signing is we can all see right now that we don't need him. Warnock said Jones would have probably been back at Queen of the South or somewhere else like that had Ameobi not got this injury.

That, to me, raises the question of why didn't we know Jones was ready? Why were we so willing to send him out when we can see from the time he has had on the pitch that he's ready for this level of football as opposed to the Scottish Championship?

Obviously the loan he had last time out didn't make a jot of difference to how we viewed him, probably because even if he plays well in the Scottish Championship that doesn't mean crap for how well he'll do in the English Championship. So do players really need to go out and play? Is that going to make us feel any different about them at all? If Wood also plays 12 games this season at Hibs, are we gonna feel any different about him?

I really hope Scott helps us try to bring a few lads through every year and we stop just filling the gaps where we can suitably take a risk and get them involved. Warnock has said it himself about Olusanya, players get better when they play with better players. It's pretty much at odds with his view on players who just need to go out and play somewhere else when we can't seem to get our young players into teams that would legitimately improve them. Of course, the difference there is likely Olusanya is his player...

i think you dont know until you see them at that level. think back down the years many of the pro's got their chance due to injuries and teams were desperate so had to turn to them. downing springs to mind, zenden was injured so he had to throw him in. didnt lingard and even rashford get thrown in like that to. 

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7 minutes ago, Dynamo Kev said:

i think you dont know until you see them at that level. think back down the years many of the pro's got their chance due to injuries and teams were desperate so had to turn to them. downing springs to mind, zenden was injured so he had to throw him in. didnt lingard and even rashford get thrown in like that to. 

Exactly, you don't know until you see them at this level. So what's the point of having an academy producing young players for your first team if you're never intending to put them in your first team? We've actually gone out and recruited lads for our U23s in recent seasons like Jones himself and yet he's only come into our team as a lucky accident.

But we can see he's good enough for this level, he's a bit raw like most young players are but he's good enough to play here. Yet the only reason he's even still in the squad at all is because one of our new signings got injured. He wouldn't have even been available for selection here if Ameobi was fit.

I'd just like to know how we can get from being a club that has youngsters as lucky accidental solutions to other first team problems to creating a place where players in our youth teams and especially our U23s have a clearer path into playing in the first team. Where they know if they are producing the goods in our youth teams, we will consider them for first team squads. It's not about playing all the kids, it's about achieving a balance where the young lads know their hard work will be rewarded if they put it in.

You're right to say this isn't solely a Middlesbrough problem but if we go along with what Warnock said about players getting better playing with better players (which I agree with) then is it beyond the realms of possibilities that Marcus Rashford doesn't become the player he is if they never had their injury issues at United at the time? Maybe he'd have had a similar trajectory to Bamford and eventually ended up in the top flight at a later age if he stuck at it but it will be interesting to keep an eye on someone like Rhian Brewster who seems to have walked into a bad situation and see how he does. It feels like it's gonna be tragic if he doesn't make the grade for England at any stage given his development at earlier stages. And will that be his fault or circumstance?

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48 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

Exactly, you don't know until you see them at this level. So what's the point of having an academy producing young players for your first team if you're never intending to put them in your first team? We've actually gone out and recruited lads for our U23s in recent seasons like Jones himself and yet he's only come into our team as a lucky accident.

But we can see he's good enough for this level, he's a bit raw like most young players are but he's good enough to play here. Yet the only reason he's even still in the squad at all is because one of our new signings got injured. He wouldn't have even been available for selection here if Ameobi was fit.

I'd just like to know how we can get from being a club that has youngsters as lucky accidental solutions to other first team problems to creating a place where players in our youth teams and especially our U23s have a clearer path into playing in the first team. Where they know if they are producing the goods in our youth teams, we will consider them for first team squads. It's not about playing all the kids, it's about achieving a balance where the young lads know their hard work will be rewarded if they put it in.

You're right to say this isn't solely a Middlesbrough problem but if we go along with what Warnock said about players getting better playing with better players (which I agree with) then is it beyond the realms of possibilities that Marcus Rashford doesn't become the player he is if they never had their injury issues at United at the time? Maybe he'd have had a similar trajectory to Bamford and eventually ended up in the top flight at a later age if he stuck at it but it will be interesting to keep an eye on someone like Rhian Brewster who seems to have walked into a bad situation and see how he does. It feels like it's gonna be tragic if he doesn't make the grade for England at any stage given his development at earlier stages. And will that be his fault or circumstance?

i agree with you mate, but clubs just think the solution is signing players every time.

instead of coburn getting starts NW was just sticking crooks upfront when bringing uche off. baffles me. why not play the young lad a bit more see what hes got. fortunately we got lucky with amoebi injury so had to play jones, now he has done enough to show hes good enough. malley to he looks great, excellent passing range, but he will never see more than the odd game. he'll never succeed with that limited exposure. might help him with cm numbers being a bit thin now. hopefully he gets a run at some point. wood is another example, paddy is out and the player coach comes on, should have kept him here, we are short in that area. shocking really, he did well enough for a 36yo thrown in. but god he struggled. if peltier cant get on how bad must he be. 

i bet the dressing room are as a baffled as us at some of the decisions NW has made this season. 

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While we are in the Championship I don't think it's wrong to have a strategy that says there has to be 2-3 academy players as part of the first team squad. Do we really need to be signing players like Peltier, Bamba and Ameobi for the last three spots in the squad? Those numbers could just as well be made up from academy players. With the money we are spending on the academy and the status we should have three home grown players in the squad. Also we need to have at least one player breaking through once in a while in order to bring in some sales or not needing to buy first team starters.

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1 hour ago, Borodane said:

While we are in the Championship I don't think it's wrong to have a strategy that says there has to be 2-3 academy players as part of the first team squad. Do we really need to be signing players like Peltier, Bamba and Ameobi for the last three spots in the squad? Those numbers could just as well be made up from academy players. With the money we are spending on the academy and the status we should have three home grown players in the squad. Also we need to have at least one player breaking through once in a while in order to bring in some sales or not needing to buy first team starters.

Last night we had three home grown players in the squad.

Plus Jones who may have only joined us 2 years ago, but he started his career here in our academy and he's came through to be a first teamer in our squad without costing us anything but wages.

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Just now, TeaCider24 said:

Last night we had three home grown players in the squad.

Plus Jones who may have only joined us 2 years ago, but he started his career here in our academy and he's came through to be a first teamer in our squad without costing us anything but wages.

I don't count Fry as an academy player anymore. I realise I said Home Grown, but I meant young players who is about to break through from the academy. Like Jones, Malley, Wood etc.

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