'Other Boro stuff'

[MMC 1,000]

2 hours ago, estonpidge said:

@wilsoncgp I don't want to see DCFC or any other club to under, but the the only way to ensure that is a robust enforcement of the rules. I do not believe that the EFL would have taken any action if Gibson had not forced the issue. As for the £45m in damages i don't believe we'll ever see a penny but the point has been made, that if the governing body is going to sit on its hands and do nothing the clubs will be forced to take action themselves.

Like you say though, the point's been made. This is now something that's having an impact on their ability to find a buyer and exit administration. While I'm glad they've gotten their just desserts and have no qualms with Gibbo starting proceedings to force the EFL into action, if this stops Derby from finding a buyer then liquidation is still firmly on the table. I wouldn't like to think we would knowingly have a hand in putting another club under. 

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

13 minutes ago, MMC said:

Like you say though, the point's been made. This is now something that's having an impact on their ability to find a buyer and exit administration. While I'm glad they've gotten their just desserts and have no qualms with Gibbo starting proceedings to force the EFL into action, if this stops Derby from finding a buyer then liquidation is still firmly on the table. I wouldn't like to think we would knowingly have a hand in putting another club under. 

This is exactly what I'm getting at, mate. I don't think Derby fans will ever forgive or forget if they end up with no club to follow and I'm not comfortable with being associated with that.

Gibson had to stand up for us and other clubs to get Morris' financial messing about to be taken seriously and I've no qualms with that. I've also said if it comes down to their unpaid taxes then I don't have much sympathy because that is a burden we all, both individually and collectively, must bear.

But he has already achieved what he looked like he originally set out to do and isn't stopping which shows a growing level of malevolence. Morris won't even suffer any more, if he ever suffered to begin with. All that's left to destroy is DCFC.

[Borodane 6,301]

Gibson isn’t going to end up being the reason Derby go under. For all the failings of Morris I doubt Gibson wants to be the villain considering he knows how hard it is for the fans when he himself saved boro from going under. This was a ploy to get the EFL to act from the beginning, so I’m certain there will be a compromise behind the scenes and if derby go under it’ll be because of their failure to pay their taxes. 

[AnglianRed 6,320]

1 hour ago, wilsoncgp said:

This is exactly what I'm getting at, mate. I don't think Derby fans will ever forgive or forget if they end up with no club to follow and I'm not comfortable with being associated with that.

Gibson had to stand up for us and other clubs to get Morris' financial messing about to be taken seriously and I've no qualms with that. I've also said if it comes down to their unpaid taxes then I don't have much sympathy because that is a burden we all, both individually and collectively, must bear.

But he has already achieved what he looked like he originally set out to do and isn't stopping which shows a growing level of malevolence. Morris won't even suffer any more, if he ever suffered to begin with. All that's left to destroy is DCFC.

This is where the existing ownership rules are inadequate IMO. Not just for football clubs, but businesses in general. 

They allow scumbags like Morris to walk away, while said business is left to fend for itself and if it does end up folding, lots of people are without jobs, through no fault of their own.

 

[Redcar Rioja 5,976]

There is absolutely no reason why any potential new owners couldn't sit down with Gibson and work something out. Gibson's point has been well and truly made with Morris and the EFL, if new owners are serious then an agreement can be reached I'm sure that can be a one off up front payment or something drip fed over time. Clearly it would be better if everything was clean and tidy and those who suffered just walked away and shrugged their shoulders but why should one of the victims be it Boro, Wycombe or indeed the DCFC fans be left to suffer at the expense of others.

It's not in Gibson's interest to see them go under because then he would absolutely get nothing. He may even just want to push it to the 11th hour, be magnanimous and walk away with a Pound Coin in full and final settlement with the point well and truly made. It may even be that with the threat hanging over them Gibson can ensure that any new owners are genuine and in doing so having the long term best interests for DCFC and their fans.

[ScarBoro 857]

42 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

This is where the existing ownership rules are inadequate IMO. Not just for football clubs, but businesses in general. 

They allow scumbags like Morris to walk away, while said business is left to fend for itself and if it does end up folding, lots of people are without jobs, through no fault of their own.

 

Changing ownership rules would not have stopped Mel Morris from buying Derby - he was a multi millionaire with nothing adverse known about him, as far as I know.  In fact I guess he was considerably more wealthy than Steve Gibson was when he bought Boro. He pumped £10s of millions into Derby - as opposed to say the Glazers who have taken £100s of millions out of MU. He then got himself in too deep and that's where it went wrong - trying to fudge the rules in order to get promotion and get the club solvent. Even then he continued to provide money to the club whilst trying to sell it. Maybe he was trying to spend his way into the Premier League in order to sell the club at a profit, but maybe it was to recoup some of his losses and because he had a passion for the club.

Yes - he took it all too far and is paying for it now, both by losing £200m reportedly and by reputation, but the EFL is just as guilty for not stopping him at an earlier time. However, the valuation of the stadium was found (somehow) to be realistic and that tied their hands a bit.

I feel really sorry for the Derby fans, but I would say  Morris was more of a gambler and risk taker than was sensible and not in the same league as some of those who have tried to buy clubs with other peoples money, then tried to take money out of club and walk away. once you have gambled and lost, you end up taking even bigger risks to recoup your losses. Its maybe telling that Morris made his fortune in gambling related businesses. Even then, its probably pretty difficult to frame ownership rules that stop the charlatans and still allow the genuine enthusiasts. its all too easy in hindsight to see those that are crooks and chancers, much more difficult in advance.

Incidentally same applies to businesses in general. There are a lot of businesses out there employing thousands of people whose owners have a few failed businesses behind them. Some of the most famous names around have only survived by the skin of their teeth before being successful. 

 

[Hendrie_7 1,073]

On 9/6/2021 at 1:05 PM, Johnmfc81 said:

Nick Gyimah

https://ghanasoccernet.com/wolfsburg-lead-race-to-snap-up-peterborough-united-promising-kid-nicky-gyimah-bio

Signed for Sunderland

https://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/football/sunderland-afc/pace-directness-and-leadership-new-sunderland-signing-who-was-on-trial-at-middlesbrough-explains-his-key-qualities-3504528

"'Pace, directness and leadership': New Sunderland signing who was on trial at Middlesbrough explains his key qualities
Sunderland have announced the signing of teenage winger Nicky Gyimah who will join up with the Black Cats’ under-23 squad."

[AnglianRed 6,320]

4 hours ago, ScarBoro said:

Changing ownership rules would not have stopped Mel Morris from buying Derby - he was a multi millionaire with nothing adverse known about him, as far as I know.  In fact I guess he was considerably more wealthy than Steve Gibson was when he bought Boro. He pumped £10s of millions into Derby - as opposed to say the Glazers who have taken £100s of millions out of MU. He then got himself in too deep and that's where it went wrong - trying to fudge the rules in order to get promotion and get the club solvent. Even then he continued to provide money to the club whilst trying to sell it. Maybe he was trying to spend his way into the Premier League in order to sell the club at a profit, but maybe it was to recoup some of his losses and because he had a passion for the club.

Yes - he took it all too far and is paying for it now, both by losing £200m reportedly and by reputation, but the EFL is just as guilty for not stopping him at an earlier time. However, the valuation of the stadium was found (somehow) to be realistic and that tied their hands a bit.

I feel really sorry for the Derby fans, but I would say  Morris was more of a gambler and risk taker than was sensible and not in the same league as some of those who have tried to buy clubs with other peoples money, then tried to take money out of club and walk away. once you have gambled and lost, you end up taking even bigger risks to recoup your losses. Its maybe telling that Morris made his fortune in gambling related businesses. Even then, its probably pretty difficult to frame ownership rules that stop the charlatans and still allow the genuine enthusiasts. its all too easy in hindsight to see those that are crooks and chancers, much more difficult in advance.

Incidentally same applies to businesses in general. There are a lot of businesses out there employing thousands of people whose owners have a few failed businesses behind them. Some of the most famous names around have only survived by the skin of their teeth before being successful. 

 

I wasn't thinking so much about preventing people from buying clubs...as you've said re-writing the ownership rules to try and weed out charlatans would be extremely difficult, to say the least.

Plus there are cases where things just don't work out, despite everyone's best endeavours.

But I wish there was some way of making owners more accountable when they take unreasonable risks and things go belly up, so they can't effectively just declare bankruptcy and walk away.

 

[ScarBoro 857]

14 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

But I wish there was some way of making owners more accountable when they take unreasonable risks and things go belly up, so they can't effectively just declare bankruptcy and walk away.

 

Totally agree with that thought, but sadly not sure it is practical. Different people have different ideas of what constitutes “reasonable”, and that idea often changes depending on how successful the idea turns out to be, rather than how it looks at the start. I bet most Derby fans didn’t think Morris’s actions were unreasonable until they didn’t work out.

[Redcar Rioja 5,976]

1 hour ago, ScarBoro said:

I bet most Derby fans didn’t think Morris’s actions were unreasonable until they didn’t work out.

I think most Derby fans were fully behind Morris and believed Gibson was just full of sour grapes because he couldn't afford to compete. It was only when reality hit home earlier this year that they realised their Club was a basket case and being run into the ground. I suspect most still do believe Gibson was and is being vindictive and acting purely out of spite.  

[AnglianRed 6,320]

17 hours ago, ScarBoro said:

Totally agree with that thought, but sadly not sure it is practical. Different people have different ideas of what constitutes “reasonable”, and that idea often changes depending on how successful the idea turns out to be, rather than how it looks at the start. I bet most Derby fans didn’t think Morris’s actions were unreasonable until they didn’t work out.

I think you could draw up quite a few guidelines when it comes to financial prudence, not spending beyond your means and not saddling clubs with debts they will be unable to service, if x, y or z happen.

 

[Hendrie_7 1,073]

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/19808306.boro-hopeful-sammy-ameobi-return-training-february-march/

"SAMMY Ameobi’s prolonged absence from the Middlesbrough team is set to continue but the club are expecting him to train with the first-team in ‘February or March’."

[GrimsbyBoro 1,968]

24 minutes ago, Hendrie_7 said:

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/19808306.boro-hopeful-sammy-ameobi-return-training-february-march/

"SAMMY Ameobi’s prolonged absence from the Middlesbrough team is set to continue but the club are expecting him to train with the first-team in ‘February or March’."

Will get fit in time to be sold in the summer without ever playing a game. 

[Downsouth 6,327]

On 12/26/2021 at 10:32 AM, Hendrie_7 said:

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/19808306.boro-hopeful-sammy-ameobi-return-training-february-march/

"SAMMY Ameobi’s prolonged absence from the Middlesbrough team is set to continue but the club are expecting him to train with the first-team in ‘February or March’."

Hopeful and expecting does not equal he will!

I am still miffed that there has been a carpet silence on just what has gone wrong with the man

[Old Codger 3,064]

Mansfield game moved to 12.15 at the request of international broadcasters...