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Superb article from The Athletic published today... Gives you a real sense that something special is being built. We've been crying out for this for so long.   Michael Walker 2h ago  2 

It is emotional blackmail and the situation has been clearly fabricated, if you look at the handwriting its obvious that Wayne Rooney wrote that letter. 

Great quote from Kevin Blackwell in the Athletic today 🤣🤣🤣

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Just read a few articles on our and Wycombe claims and frankly I can’t see how they could legally be successful.  The claim is based on probability with little circumstantial evidence that Derby sole action did indeed, cause or prevent a predictable outcome. With Derby being only one of several inputs that could influence an outcome it’s highly unlikely to be identified as the source. 
Obviously its complex and it’s only my assessment based risk management. 

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What's the protocol for attending home games regarding the new rules? Do they have somebody on each turnstile checking results of COVID and tickets? Because sometimes I use my dad's ticket and they'll obviously know I'm not oap

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6 minutes ago, liambell42 said:

What's the protocol for attending home games regarding the new rules? Do they have somebody on each turnstile checking results of COVID and tickets? Because sometimes I use my dad's ticket and they'll obviously know I'm not oap

A steward takes a brief glance outside the turnstiles, but you don't need to use the ticket you could just use a driving licence as proof of identity, but the government are scrapping the rules from next week, I don't think MFC will carry it on without it being mandated by law.

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14 minutes ago, liambell42 said:

What's the protocol for attending home games regarding the new rules? Do they have somebody on each turnstile checking results of COVID and tickets? Because sometimes I use my dad's ticket and they'll obviously know I'm not oap

Just wear a cap, use a walking frame and pretend you are hard of hearing 😂

Old Man Animation GIF by Shilstone Arts

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, sanddancer said:

Just read a few articles on our and Wycombe claims and frankly I can’t see how they could legally be successful.  The claim is based on probability with little circumstantial evidence that Derby sole action did indeed, cause or prevent a predictable outcome. With Derby being only one of several inputs that could influence an outcome it’s highly unlikely to be identified as the source. 
Obviously its complex and it’s only my assessment based risk management. 

I do get where you're coming from, there's no guarantee in my eyes that Derby finish lower than us because, for example, they don't sign Waghorn and we do. It's far more complex than that. It changes how Derby would manage the situation across the season, it changes how we'd handle ours and how others would handle each of us. And there's no guarantee that's for the better or worse of either party.

But on the other hand... in both scenarios, we're talking about 2 points worth of difference if you include goal difference and if you can argue that Derby knowingly avoided the rules, they did it in order to gain a benefit. I don't think it would be too hard to suggest that signing Waghorn the season they did at least seemed to give them an advantage as per the goals and assists he provided and was certainly intended to provide them the advantage he did, the same as @TeaCider24 was saying to me the other day.

One thing Derby fans seem to be saying is they're not convinced the outcome of everything so far legitimately shows that they intentionally circumvented the rules, though. I've no idea how true that is but that's why Derby fans got up in arms about us using the word 'cheating' in our statement and said someone could sue us for libel. Like, I have no doubt in my eyes it was intentional but if that wasn't part of any of the official outcomes surrounding this then I feel like we'd struggle to prove their advantage was intentionally gained.

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At this point if they publicly apologised to Gibson for what Morris did and offered to pay him gate receipts and TV money for the play offs, I honestly think he'd consider backing down. If they can't afford it, sell a player or two. Millwall just offered them half a mill for a player that doesn't start. 

While MFC and WW don't want Derby to fold, the admins need to start thinking about ways this can be resolved without parties losing face. It's gone to far for anyone to walk away empty handed.

Likewise Derby admins are deluded if their strategy is 'Everything happens the exact way we want it, or we'll be liquidated and it's MFC and WW's fault.' Gibson and WW chairman won't be bullied and won't care who cries and shouts on social media. If Derby refuse to come to the table full stop, they will be liquidated. 

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1 minute ago, SouthernSmoggie said:

Likewise Derby admins are deluded if their strategy is 'Everything happens the exact way we want it, or we'll be liquidated and it's MFC and WW's fault.' Gibson and WW chairman won't be bullied and won't care who cries and shouts on social media. If Derby refuse to come to the table full stop, they will be liquidated. 

Indeed, this was essentially Couhig's point. We are both being painted in the media as the sole cause of their going under but we are just the bill on top of everything else that they ultimately want to refuse to pay to challenge. Couhig asked them about all the other creditors and what's going on there and if the administrators had solved those problems and the Radio Derby lad was like... but Wycombe, but Middlesbrough, don't you feel guilty?

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5 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

Indeed, this was essentially Couhig's point. We are both being painted in the media as the sole cause of their going under but we are just the bill on top of everything else that they ultimately want to refuse to pay to challenge. Couhig asked them about all the other creditors and what's going on there and if the administrators had solved those problems and the Radio Derby lad was like... but Wycombe, but Middlesbrough, don't you feel guilty?

Anyone who's worked with a businessman like Gibson knows there's two options now:

1) Offer him a face-saving option where the optics show he backed down but still 'wins.' Of course, this would mean Derby need to swallow their pride and wash it down with a helping of humble pie. They'll also have to give him some costs but they'll survive. More than money, Gibson wants acknowledgement he is right. After Morris tried to humiliate him, this was always coming.

2) Back him into a corner and play a game of chicken with the future of the club. Cross your fingers he gives in to your social media sob story and drops his case, essentially admitting you were right all along and it was baseless, and he was the sole blocker of your takeover. Gibson gets nothing - and is still painted as the villain of the story. 

Admins going for option 2 could see the end of the club. For what? Being too proud to even come to the table and negotiate. Reckless from them tbh. 

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8 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

Indeed, this was essentially Couhig's point. We are both being painted in the media as the sole cause of their going under but we are just the bill on top of everything else that they ultimately want to refuse to pay to challenge. Couhig asked them about all the other creditors and what's going on there and if the administrators had solved those problems and the Radio Derby lad was like... but Wycombe, but Middlesbrough, don't you feel guilty?

I don’t see how it could be resolved without either a decision on the filed cases or we and WW withdraw but Derby still need to prove they have the financial backing to finish the season by Feb 1st.  
Of course there will be local parties vocally joining the arguments because it’s a platform and opportunity for gaining electoral votes, nothing else. Derby cheated therefore they must be held accountable and the EFL must stringently enforce its rules. 

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34 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I do get where you're coming from, there's no guarantee in my eyes that Derby finish lower than us because, for example, they don't sign Waghorn and we do. It's far more complex than that. It changes how Derby would manage the situation across the season, it changes how we'd handle ours and how others would handle each of us. And there's no guarantee that's for the better or worse of either party.

But on the other hand... in both scenarios, we're talking about 2 points worth of difference if you include goal difference and if you can argue that Derby knowingly avoided the rules, they did it in order to gain a benefit. I don't think it would be too hard to suggest that signing Waghorn the season they did at least seemed to give them an advantage as per the goals and assists he provided and was certainly intended to provide them the advantage he did, the same as @TeaCider24 was saying to me the other day.

One thing Derby fans seem to be saying is they're not convinced the outcome of everything so far legitimately shows that they intentionally circumvented the rules, though. I've no idea how true that is but that's why Derby fans got up in arms about us using the word 'cheating' in our statement and said someone could sue us for libel. Like, I have no doubt in my eyes it was intentional but if that wasn't part of any of the official outcomes surrounding this then I feel like we'd struggle to prove their advantage was intentionally gained.

Just to follow on from your point about Waghorn's contribution. There are some games below where he clearly made a difference to the result so one could argue on the points accumulated here. 

 

image.png.ea4a14c4672be09e9b01af64c1218676.png

And on goal difference...

image.png.34082a16c998f9721756730102296f81.png

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10 minutes ago, sanddancer said:

I don’t see how it could be resolved without either a decision on the filed cases or we and WW withdraw but Derby still need to prove they have the financial backing to finish the season by Feb 1st.  
Of course there will be local parties vocally joining the arguments because it’s a platform and opportunity for gaining electoral votes, nothing else. Derby cheated therefore they must be held accountable and the EFL must stringently enforce its rules. 

The local MPs and stuff will only be joining in because it's a desperate situation. Still, it would be awful if they also stood by and did nothing given the fact that it's a football club in this country and Derby is a one club city. This is almost certainly their club too, for those who follow the sport.

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