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1 hour ago, RiseAgainst said:

. Honestly, if it's a straight choice between defrauding the taxpayer out of tens of millions of pounds or seeing the club drop out of the league and re-form as a phoenix, let them drop. 

Surely every club, indeed every business, that goes into administration, costs the taxman  money? It used to be the law that HMRC was a preferred creditor and were entitled to all their money before ordinary creditors got paid. Government changed this as people complained it was unfair to other businesses. So any football club now going into administration will cost HMRC and us as taxpayers money.
It’s only defrauding if they are misstating true assets in order to give taxman less that he is entitled to.  Is this happening? I’m sure they are manoeuvring to minimise the taxman’s take, but every administrator will do that and it doesn’t make it illegal in most cases.

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Superb article from The Athletic published today... Gives you a real sense that something special is being built. We've been crying out for this for so long.   Michael Walker 2h ago  2 

It is emotional blackmail and the situation has been clearly fabricated, if you look at the handwriting its obvious that Wayne Rooney wrote that letter. 

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Just now, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

I’m sure that was a minority of fans, there are idiots all over the internet. 

No it was the majority of the fans at the time, you got to remember their chairman was Robert Maxwell who got his son to buy Oxford and use it against the league rules as a nursery club for Derby, and then buy at a massive discount lots of oxfords best players. 

The justice came when Derby qualified for Europe only to get stopped due to the English ban

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1 minute ago, ScarBoro said:

Surely every club, indeed every business, that goes into administration, costs the taxman  money? It used to be the law that HMRC was a preferred creditor and were entitled to all their money before ordinary creditors got paid. Government changed this as people complained it was unfair to other businesses. So any football club now going into administration will cost HMRC and us as taxpayers money.
It’s only defrauding if they are misstating true assets in order to give taxman less that he is entitled to.  Is this happening? I’m sure they are manoeuvring to minimise the taxman’s take, but every administrator will do that and it doesn’t make it illegal in most cases.

theres a difference from going in to administration due to business failure and going into adminsitration after getting caught cheating, and using insolvency rules to wipe out debts, whilst refusing to sell assets to reduce your debts yourself

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Just now, ScarBoro said:

Surely every club, indeed every business, that goes into administration, costs the taxman  money? It used to be the law that HMRC was a preferred creditor and were entitled to all their money before ordinary creditors got paid. Government changed this as people complained it was unfair to other businesses. So any football club now going into administration will cost HMRC and us as taxpayers money.
It’s only defrauding if they are misstating true assets in order to give taxman less that he is entitled to.  Is this happening? I’m sure they are manoeuvring to minimise the taxman’s take, but every administrator will do that and it doesn’t make it illegal in most cases.

I think what Quantuma are doing is quite far removed from normal administrator work. Other clubs which have ended up in administration have sold key assets to release funds to pay debts to the best extent they can. Derby's admins are flatly refusing to sell anyone in an active transfer window, presumably because they think they can dodge a bullet and finish the season with a squad as strong as they started it. I'm not an administration expert, but I think that's against both the letter and the spirit of the law when it comes to their responsibilities.

Derby County Football Club is worth far more than the money they owe HMRC, so there is no excuse for HMRC not receiving what they're owed. Personally, I couldn't give a toss whether MFC gets a penny out of them - my sympathies lie with (a) Wycombe Wanderers, (b) all the small businesses who are being shafted out of money DCFC owe them for services provided in good faith, and (c) the taxpayer in general - you and me and anyone else reading this in the UK - for enduring another eight-figure hit to tax takings at a time when this country needs every damn penny of taxpayer revenue it can get its hands on.

As for mis-stating true assets, again I'm not an accountant, but isn't selling a stadium worth £20 million to the club's owner for £80 million a pretty definitive case of this?

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8 minutes ago, Naisby said:

No it was the majority of the fans at the time, you got to remember their chairman was Robert Maxwell who got his son to buy Oxford and use it against the league rules as a nursery club for Derby, and then buy at a massive discount lots of oxfords best players. 

The justice came when Derby qualified for Europe only to get stopped due to the English ban

Sorry I thought you were talking about the current situation. 
 

I agree that at the time I thought Kevin Maxwell’s appointment at Oxford was very fishy, again though I wouldn’t have wanted Derby to be liquidated over it. What are your thoughts on the Falklands war?

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2 minutes ago, RiseAgainst said:

I think what Quantuma are doing is quite far removed from normal administrator work. Other clubs which have ended up in administration have sold key assets to release funds to pay debts to the best extent they can. Derby's admins are flatly refusing to sell anyone in an active transfer window, presumably because they think they can dodge a bullet and finish the season with a squad as strong as they started it. I'm not an administration expert, but I think that's against both the letter and the spirit of the law when it comes to their responsibilities.

Derby County Football Club is worth far more than the money they owe HMRC, so there is no excuse for HMRC not receiving what they're owed. Personally, I couldn't give a toss whether MFC gets a penny out of them - my sympathies lie with (a) Wycombe Wanderers, (b) all the small businesses who are being shafted out of money DCFC owe them for services provided in good faith, and (c) the taxpayer in general - you and me and anyone else reading this in the UK - for enduring another eight-figure hit to tax takings at a time when this country needs every damn penny of taxpayer revenue it can get its hands on.

As for mis-stating true assets, again I'm not an accountant, but isn't selling a stadium worth £20 million to the club's owner for £80 million a pretty definitive case of this?

And terribly fishy if the buyer knows it’s only worth £20m and still pays £84m. Add to this both the buyer and the seller are the same person.

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23 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

Many third persons will suffer though won’t they…their fans. 

I can't believe you are willing to let the public pay for the clubs use of money they don't have, just so the fans can have a football team. We're talking money that is owed to the public. That's healthcare, schools etc. Is ok for Derby to spend that money and not repay it?

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Anyone interested in this saga should listen to Simon Jordan from 53 minutes. Explains unequivocally that MFC is NOT the reason for the hold up of the sale. Whatever you think of SJ, he knows Gibson, Morris, the admin and one of the buyers personally. This is tier 1 info, not some Nixon-esque guff.

  

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7 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

Sorry I thought you were talking about the current situation. 
 

I agree that at the time I thought Kevin Maxwell’s appointment at Oxford was very fishy, again though I wouldn’t have wanted Derby to be liquidated over it. What are your thoughts on the Falklands war?

My points about their fans back in 86 and how they viewed our plight and helped us were pertinent to the topic. I fail to see how the Falklands is. I’m happy to discuss that war especially as it’s going to be the 40th anniversary this year. But if you do it’s best to do it in a different thread.

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Just now, Borodane said:

I can't believe you are willing to let the public pay for the clubs use of money they don't have, just so the fans can have a football team. We're talking money that is owed to the public. That's healthcare, schools etc. Is ok for Derby to spend that money and not repay it?

I’m not arguing anything of the sort, I just don’t want Derby to be liquidated, because I care about football and supporters in this country.

I was upset for Bury fans when they were put out of business and for Wimbledon fans when their club was moved to Milton Keynes. 

I totally agree that Derby have done wrong, I totally agree that they had to be punished but I don’t agree with the calls to liquidate them and for generations of supporters to lose their club 

it’s pretty simple really. 

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5 minutes ago, SouthernSmoggie said:

Anyone interested in this saga should listen to Simon Jordan from 53 minutes. Explains unequivocally that MFC is NOT the reason for the hold up of the sale. Whatever you think of SJ, he knows Gibson, Morris, the admin and one of the buyers personally. This is tier 1 info, not some Nixon-esque guff.

  

That was a great watch, thanks.

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6 minutes ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said:

I’m not arguing anything of the sort, I just don’t want Derby to be liquidated, because I care about football and supporters in this country.

I was upset for Bury fans when they were put out of business and for Wimbledon fans when their club was moved to Milton Keynes. 

I totally agree that Derby have done wrong, I totally agree that they had to be punished but I don’t agree with the calls to liquidate them and for generations of supporters to lose their club 

it’s pretty simple really. 

I agree with a lot of what you've said, I just can't appreciate their fans standing up for one side of the debate that is not really working in their best interests either.

These situations are challenging and the fans shouldn't have to be put through them but the administrators are making this worse for them too and they're holding onto them as a vessel of truth within all the noise.

They're just as bad as anyone on this situation but our club is being dragged through the mud by them in public and the same fans who seem to have opened their eyes to Morris' misdeeds are happy to allow Quantuma take the club to the edge of liquidation before coming to the table.

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Football fans shouldn’t loose their club because of the nefarious actions of owners, rules and laws govern football in order to try and stop this, sadly there are always folk who are happy to break them in order to get an advantage.

The fans of clubs and the wider communities of football towns and cities are always the collateral victims when these things happen, if equal justice for all could be found in these cases I would happily support it.

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Just now, wilsoncgp said:

I agree with a lot of what you've said, I just can't appreciate their fans standing up for one side of the debate that is not really working in their best interests either.

These situations are challenging and the fans shouldn't have to be put through them but the administrators are making this worse for them too and they're holding onto them as a vessel of truth within all the noise.

They're just as bad as anyone on this situation but our club is being dragged through the mud by them in public and the same fans who seem to have opened their eyes to Morris' misdeeds are happy to allow Quantuma take the club to the edge of liquidation before coming to the table.

The fans have no say in anything at the end of the day. It’s just internet noise and clickbait articles. 
 

I’m sure many Derby fans are appalled by Morris’ actions, they just don’t go on line to vent their anger. There is a whole world away from forums and social media. It’s good to take a break from time to time, I have and it puts things into perspective.

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20 minutes ago, SouthernSmoggie said:

Anyone interested in this saga should listen to Simon Jordan from 53 minutes. Explains unequivocally that MFC is NOT the reason for the hold up of the sale. Whatever you think of SJ, he knows Gibson, Morris, the admin and one of the buyers personally. This is tier 1 info, not some Nixon-esque guff.

  

Interesting. Simon Jordan says that Gibson has agreements to deal with the case with 2 of 3 interested parties. I think it's safe to speculate that one of them is Ashley. I wonder if the one he doesn't have an agreement with is the one made up of current and former Derby directors, who you may speculate would continue acting with Morris' best interests in mind...

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