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1 minute ago, Changing Times said:

Jack Rodwell was a better player than both albeit his career flamed out of course.

 

I didn't read the rest 🤣

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Superb article from The Athletic published today... Gives you a real sense that something special is being built. We've been crying out for this for so long.   Michael Walker 2h ago  2 

It is emotional blackmail and the situation has been clearly fabricated, if you look at the handwriting its obvious that Wayne Rooney wrote that letter. 

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4 minutes ago, Humpty said:

What's strange about it? He had perceived value in interest from Forest, so it follows that we'd protect that perceived value. Would've thought that was obvious especially with Forest picking up his wages. It's a free year for Boro and a chance to put him in the shop window.

It's strange to extend a contract of someone you apparently don't want 🤷‍♂️ 

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Howson might be a better player technically, but he's no leader. Leadbitter was always cajoling, instructing, supervising - spurring teammates on to better performances while acting as a fulcrum between defence and midfield. He was a leader of the sort we simply haven't had since, and I'd have him in his pomp over Howson for that reason alone, regardless of the latter's recent renaissance.

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1 minute ago, Changing Times said:

I'm surprised you were able to read that much by yourself to be fair 🙃

I couldn't read anything after falling off my wall..

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Surely with Howson and Leadbitter it’s hard to compare them as they both have played in different systems and different roles in those teams? It’s like comparing apples to oranges in a sense. 
 

I do think that Leadbitter brought a lot of unseen quality that Howson doesn’t. For example, unity behind the scenes and giving his all during the Karanka years. I do think Howson is still effective, but not in the same way.

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I'll climb down to the point where I agree that there probably isn't as much in it as my original post referenced (apologies to @TLF10 for that..) but I'll maintain that as an all round footballer ( @RiseAgainst alluded to his intangible attributes) and a centre midfielder specifically... Leadbitter is the better player.

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14 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

It's strange to extend a contract of someone you apparently don't want 🤷‍♂️ 

Not necessarily, we may not want him but we probably do want to sell him, and by extending his contract increases the potential fee we can expect for him. Its a smart move really especially given the amount of interest in him. I doubted anyone would buy him in January especially being as he would of been unable to play for them untill next season anyway. 

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4 minutes ago, Humpty said:

I'll climb down to the point where I agree that there probably isn't as much in it as my original post referenced (apologies to @TLF10 for that..) but I'll maintain that as an all round footballer ( @RiseAgainst alluded to his intangible attributes) and a centre midfielder specifically... Leadbitter is the better player.

No need to apologise mate. I took no offence. Its all about opinions being expressed reapectfully or in good humour.

I took your initial comment about “twaddle” as you telling me in a light hearted manner that you disagreed. 

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Just now, Johnmfc81 said:

Not necessarily, we may not want him but we probably do want to sell him, and by extending his contract increases the potential fee we can expect for him. Its a smart move really especially given the amount of interest in him. I doubted anyone would buy him in January especially being as he would of been unable to play for them untill next season anyway. 

It looks like a smart move now that he's doing really well, yeah.  It's the bit beforehand that I'm less sure about, the bit where somebody thought what if he doesn't do well and then nobody wants him.  I suppose if his salary is relatively small then it's less of an issue, you're simply stuck with a player you don't want, who is causing some problems.  We're pretty good at ending up with players we don't really want though, we've almost made it into an artform now.

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1 minute ago, Changing Times said:

It looks like a smart move now that he's doing really well, yeah.  It's the bit beforehand that I'm less sure about, the bit where somebody thought what if he doesn't do well and then nobody wants him.  I suppose if his salary is relatively small then it's less of an issue, you're simply stuck with a player you don't want, who is causing some problems.  We're pretty good at ending up with players we don't really want though, we've almost made it into an artform now.

It might well be like Wing, where we had the option to extend his contract at any time, but chose not to do so when his loan spell went terribly and released him on a free instead.

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16 minutes ago, Humpty said:

I'll climb down to the point where I agree that there probably isn't as much in it as my original post referenced (apologies to @TLF10 for that..) but I'll maintain that as an all round footballer ( @RiseAgainst alluded to his intangible attributes) and a centre midfielder specifically... Leadbitter is the better player.

To me they are so close it's not worth the discussion really if you know what I mean.  I think there's plenty of midfielders knocking about now and over the last decade or so who are also in the same category.  That's one of the reasons I couldn't understand us spending £5m on Howson at the time.  Mind you, we topped that with Saville's signing a year later 🙁

I can't remember exactly some of the transfer fees involved but when you think of what we spent on Howson and Saville, and then think about what we spent on Morsy or Crooks, or even someone like Forshaw and Clayton, or for that matter the free transfer signing of Leadbitter, I think you'd be hard pressed to see value for money in either of the first two because the difference in ability between them and the rest is so small.

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7 minutes ago, TeaCider24 said:

It might well be like Wing, where we had the option to extend his contract at any time, but chose not to do so when his loan spell went terribly and released him on a free instead.

Could be mate but the wording in the article suggested that we extended before he left?  I just wondered if perhaps he wasn't quite as unwanted as it might be believed.

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8 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Could be mate but the wording in the article suggested that we extended before he left?  I just wondered if perhaps he wasn't quite as unwanted as it might be believed.

Warnock said the same thing about Wing when he left too, but then it turned out that we hadn't activated the year, we just retained the option to do so.

I have no doubt that we will/have activated it for Spence, but that's because he's playing very well right now.

Clubs surely will tend to leave these extensions till late in the contract, so they're not stuck with the wages if they flop.

Spence would still have been contracted here for another 2 years when we loaned him, there'd have been no need to extend it yet if it's a unilateral option in the contract.

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