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5 minutes ago, Borodane said:

It was still the club that handled the negotiations and they were obviously pretty bad at that. That's on the club. I don't think we will be getting any money out of it. But it still doesn't change the fact that Monk and his agent is running a shady scheme, when it's something the club explicitly told Monk not to do. In the end it apparently was a contributing factor to him losing his job and subsequently also losing his job at Birmingham.

Well the Birmingham bit is even more complicated.  That agent was helping to bring in players to Birmingham while one of the previous managers was in charge apparently (might have been Zola).  The Birmingham hierarchy had no issue with his involvement then.  I suspect his existing relationship with the club is one of the ways that Monk got the job there.  Then at some point the agent's involvement suddenly becomes an issue.  It's possible that they tried to push their luck but it's also possible that the club wanted rid of Monk and used this as an excuse to terminate his contract.

Edit - I heard the above story about the Birmingham stuff on the radio from someone in the media down there.  I don't have the agent's biography at hand or anything.

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5 minutes ago, Duvel said:

Whoever decided that we should bid 7m for Fletcher should be banned from football. It was pretty obvious after watching Fletcher a handful of times that we'd massively overpaid for him. 

It was obvious before we signed him that we'd overpaid.  I think this forum was discussing that very subject at the time.  Afterwards it was suggested that the deal was half of that with lots of add ons if I remember correctly, which seemed to make the deal look a bit better from our perspective.  Unless Monk was conducting the negotiations then the person responsible is almost certainly still employed at the club.

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3 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

It was obvious before we signed him that we'd overpaid.  I think this forum was discussing that very subject at the time.  Afterwards it was suggested that the deal was half of that with lots of add ons if I remember correctly, which seemed to make the deal look a bit better from our perspective.  Unless Monk was conducting the negotiations then the person responsible is almost certainly still employed at the club.

I agree and if Monk was conducting negotiations (which I don't believe) then that's equally embarrassing. 

Either way the club look completely stupid. 

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7 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Yes I know that's what we'd pursue but in order to get financial recompense we'd have to show how they actually cost us money and that is going to be difficult if the agent couldn't actually get involved in the deals.  That's the point I'm making.  We would have to prove definitively that the only reason Monk wanted us to sign those players is because they were trying to make some money between the pair of them.  I don't think that will be possible based on the information in that article.

I think some of the agents actions indicate quite strongly that they were trying to gain financially. The fact that he only became directly involved in the Christie deal a mere 24 hours after we decide to pursue him, is the biggest one. I know you are trying to say that beside the Christie deal it seems that Monk or his agent have not actually gained financially. But the club may argue that Monk only pursued certain targets with the intention of gaining financial hence the "best interests" quote.

If the club are taking a legal route they must feel strongly about it, and there must be other information that they know of or have evidence of to take it this far forward. The articles I have read all mention similar things, but I can't imagine that would be the only information relating to this.

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12 minutes ago, Duvel said:

I agree and if Monk was conducting negotiations (which I don't believe) then that's equally embarrassing. 

Either way the club look completely stupid. 

Precisely.  Do we think that Monk negotiated all of the deals that summer?  I just don't believe for a second that he negotiated even one of them.  The bigger issue for me is that we spent £30m on Assombalonga, Braithwaite and Fletcher that summer, 6 months after spending £12m on Bamford and Gestede.  That's £42m on five forwards in the space of 6 months, which is completely ridiculous and I'm pretty sure I said this at the time on the transfer window thread.  We still have the same Chairman, we still have the same Chief Executive and we still have the same Head Scout.  

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29 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

I heard the above story about the Birmingham stuff on the radio from someone in the media down there.  I don't have the agent's biography at hand or anything.

When he was sacked it all seemed to be insinuated in their very strangely worded club statement. Then a few days later one of the board members came out with more details in the local Birmingham press.

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1 minute ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

I think some of the agents actions indicate quite strongly that they were trying to gain financially. The fact that he only became directly involved in the Christie deal a mere 24 hours after we decide to pursue him, is the biggest one. I know you are trying to say that beside the Christie deal it seems that Monk or his agent have not actually gained financially. But the club may argue that Monk only pursued certain targets with the intention of gaining financial hence the "best interests" quote.

If the club are taking a legal route they must feel strongly about it, and there must be other information that they know of or have evidence of to take it this far forward. The articles I have read all mention similar things, but I can't imagine that would be the only information relating to this.

Proving that will be next to impossible unless they have some actual evidence beyond that stated in the article.  Even with the Christie transfer Monk will say that Christie wasn't our first or second choice but once we missed out on those targets we had to move on to other players.  So his argument will be that if we were intending to get more money out of the club then why didn't I insist on signing that player from the beginning.  On top of that, it seems that the club suggested the name to Monk not the other way around so even then he will say that he wanted other players.  Even if we have a fair idea of what they were doing it will be very difficult to prove intent.

The club aren't taking the legal route as it stands.  They sent the pair of them a legal letter a year ago apparently and nothing has happened since.  Maybe they are still trying to build a case but the article itself says that no FA or FIFA regulations have been broken so again I think unless we find out a lot more stuff then it's not going to go anywhere.

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23 minutes ago, Duvel said:

I agree and if Monk was conducting negotiations (which I don't believe) then that's equally embarrassing. 

Either way the club look completely stupid. 

I said this last night, even if it was Monk that was negotiating the deals, why on earth did Bauser and Gibson not step in and veto certain deals namely Johnson and Fletcher. We overpaid on those two players hugely, for someone who runs a very successful global business you'd expect better financial sense from Gibson.

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10 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Precisely.  Do we think that Monk negotiated all of the deals that summer?  I just don't believe for a second that he negotiated even one of them.  The bigger issue for me is that we spent £30m on Assombalonga, Braithwaite and Fletcher that summer, 6 months after spending £12m on Bamford and Gestede.  That's £42m on five forwards in the space of 6 months, which is completely ridiculous and I'm pretty sure I said this at the time on the transfer window thread.  We still have the same Chairman, we still have the same Chief Executive and we still have the same Head Scout.  

I was probably the most critical poster on here of Monk but I don't think for a minute that he negotiated on any transfer. 

I've been banging the same drum all summer (and before) about the way the club is run. While we have the same people behind the scenes then nothing will change in my opinion, all the positive Gazette stories in the world won't make me change my mind. 

If it turns out that we've been stitched up by a dodgy agent and manager then we need to ask ourselves why. 

 

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5 minutes ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

When he was sacked it all seemed to be insinuated in their very strangely worded club statement. Then a few days later one of the board members came out with more details in the local Birmingham press.

Yeah I remember that.  It was that statement that prompted the chat I heard on the radio I think.

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29 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Maybe they are still trying to build a case but the article itself says that no FA or FIFA regulations have been broken so again I think unless we find out a lot more stuff then it's not going to go anywhere.

I think that is the stage we are at, we must have more information available to us than what the press have. As as you said in your previous post it would be very difficult to discern any wrong doing, due to the nature of the deals. His Birmingham sacking seems to have opened it all up again.

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54 minutes ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

I think that is the stage we are at, we must have more information available to us than what the press have. As as you said in your previous post it would be very difficult to discern any wrong doing, due to the nature of the deals. His Birmingham sacking seems to have opened it all up again.

I might be misreading but just because no FA or FIFA rules have been broken doesn't necessarily mean no contract laws etc have been breached right?

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I'm also very confused by what we're trying to prove here. Beyond Monk breaking clauses in his own contract, I don't get it? Like CT said, Featherstone trying and failing to make any money out of us in all but one case is not much to shout about and it really begs the question why, if we're so bothered by that, why have we only tried to do something about it now? Funny how it's happening after our income channels have been reduced, huh?

Obviously there is some issue there with Monk and we're not the only ones complaining about him, it seems like it may have lost him his current job too. But come on, Monk didn't spend the money we spent, he shouldn't even have anything to do with how much money we spend during negotiations beyond begging for a player. £6.5m for Fletcher shocked Bilic at the time we spent that, KM is right, it was bloody mad. But Monk didn't sign that cheque, Gibson did. Considering we've still spent money after Monk has gone on players who've hardly been successful yet, it hardly comes down to Monk to take a huge chunk of responsibility here, it is like others have said probably on the shoulders of someone who is still at the club and stealing a living.

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23 minutes ago, Brunners said:

I might be misreading but just because no FA or FIFA rules have been broken doesn't necessarily mean no contract laws etc have been breached right?

No that's entirely correct mate, they are different things.

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