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I still think it was shitty that clubs were allowed to do that to skirt FPP in the first place, so I'm not gonna complain about Gibson still pushing the topic, even if it just gets the loophole closed moving forward.

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Also I find it interesting that the Times made sure to note that the EFL met yesterday and are "shaken" by the development. Wonder if that's just them dramatising it, or if that's meaningful.

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8 hours ago, Brunners said:

Also I find it interesting that the Times made sure to note that the EFL met yesterday and are "shaken" by the development. Wonder if that's just them dramatising it, or if that's meaningful.

They are probably just surprised that a team has had the balls to sue them?

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Buying your own stadium for £80m when it's valued at £40m is making a mockery of FFP.

Mel Morris is trying to sell Derby right now for £60m, and allegedly the club is losing £3m a month. 

It's a joke.

Villa, Reading and Sheffield Wednesday have all done the same thing too.

Gibson's not an idiot, I'm sure he's aware you can't change a season that's already passed. But you can make sure that clubs can't game the system in the future, and are potentially punished for dodgy dealings.

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But what is he hoping to gain from suing them? Us suing them on our own surely implies we in particular have some grievance against them? It seems to me that that grievance is where we finished compared to a team that did something financially irresponsible (but seemingly still within the laws) and that they finished above us because of that?

I've no problem with us wanting to close the loophole. I just don't see how us suing them over apparently nonexistent laws is going to achieve that. I'm taking that from the previous discussions we've had on the subject where it seems to have been the case that irresponsible is the nature of their actions, not illegal.

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Presumably he'll be hoping that they make it an iron clad law that you can't buy your own stadium off yourself to massage account figures in a way that circumvents FFP rules that you'd have broken without doing so. I'm sure Birmingham City would have happily side stepped their transfer embargo and 9 point deduction if they knew they just had to buy their own stadium off themselves.

But I can buy that Derby have not done anything illegal when it comes to that, if it's not currently in the rules.

However, if something you own is valued at £41m (probably an overvaluation in itself), I can't see how it's not illegal to then buy it yourself, through another company of your owner, for double the valuation with the sole intention of cheating the system. Fair enough if Derby had duped some idiotic outside investor and doubled their money, but they've paid themselves and it's abundantly clear why they've done it.

The EFL's reputation is at an all time low right now, and this suit is bringing more negative publicity and I'm sure they'll want to be seen to be properly acting on financial impropriety after their own failure to do so led to the demise of Bury FC.

Edited by TeaCider24

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40 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

But what is he hoping to gain from suing them? Us suing them on our own surely implies we in particular have some grievance against them? It seems to me that that grievance is where we finished compared to a team that did something financially irresponsible (but seemingly still within the laws) and that they finished above us because of that?

I've no problem with us wanting to close the loophole. I just don't see how us suing them over apparently nonexistent laws is going to achieve that. I'm taking that from the previous discussions we've had on the subject where it seems to have been the case that irresponsible is the nature of their actions, not illegal.

They abused a loophole so it is one of these not "technically" illegal but definitely a shitty thing to do. 

Do we have the specifics of what Gibson is suing for, I've only seen the one image of the times back page so don't know if theres more info I'm unaware of. It almost sounds like he wants the EFL to retroactively punish these clubs which seems a stretch.

Considering he has publicly gone out of his way to call Derby cheats, this isn't too surprising i guess. 

Also surely he has enough lawyers on hand to know whether proceeding to sue them is a good idea? He must think he has a good case, surely?

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The legality of it surely depends on the validity of the 'independent' valuation they got on the stadium. If it can be proven that the stadium's true value was £40m then they have potentially broken the law, not just FFP.

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I doubt he thinks that he can change the outcome of last season. But he is obviously hellbent on making sure that his own club comply with FFP, and if he doesn't think the governing body is doing their job and isn't interested in listening the complaints then he might feel that this is the last resort. If nothing else than just to make it public that the EFL, in his eyes, are doing a shambolic job and are making dicisions like drawing numbers out of a hat. It's very clear that Gibson has had it with the EFL and is making damn sure that he is going to put it all out there. I couldn't care less if supporters of other clubs think it's laughable. The EFL's handling of their own FFP is shambolic looking at it from the outside. I'm sure there are plenty of smaller clubs, and other clubs who are doing the best to comply with the rules, that are very interested in what Gibson is trying to achieve. It wouldn't surprise me if he's recieved plenty of phonecalls to back his cause from chairmen throught the country.

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1 hour ago, Brunners said:

They abused a loophole so it is one of these not "technically" illegal but definitely a shitty thing to do. 

Do we have the specifics of what Gibson is suing for, I've only seen the one image of the times back page so don't know if theres more info I'm unaware of. It almost sounds like he wants the EFL to retroactively punish these clubs which seems a stretch.

Considering he has publicly gone out of his way to call Derby cheats, this isn't too surprising i guess. 

Also surely he has enough lawyers on hand to know whether proceeding to sue them is a good idea? He must think he has a good case, surely?

I know but being shitty to do and illegal are two entirely separate things when it comes to suing someone. Like I said, no problem with wanting to close a loophole, it is financially irresponsible to sell your stadium to fund one or two promotion bids when others are doing the same, I've just no idea what grounds we have personally to sue the EFL.

I've also no doubt that Gibson has people around him advising on why we should go ahead with it but it certainly wouldn't be the first time people around Gibson have made a bad decision if it's unreasonable. I think he's made enough mistakes recently that he's now in the spotlight for the company he keeps and decisions he makes with/through them and there's every right to be sceptical. Put it this way, would Gibson be pursuing this if we were in the Premier League right now? No chance, in my eyes.

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Well done Gibson as clubs voted for FFP in they made the rules so for all diligent clubs who are following the rules to then have direct rivals such as Derby cheating who only finished 1 point above boro in the playoffs who if Mel Morris didn't buy their stadium for 80 million would of lead to a loss of circa 60 million instead of a 20 million profit and most likely would't of finished in the playoffs. The issue is if anything is dealt to Derby I hope the same happens to Aston villa in the form of a fine equivalent to the revenue they generated from the stadium sale!

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20 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

 

I know but being shitty to do and illegal are two entirely separate things when it comes to suing someone. Like I said, no problem with wanting to close a loophole, it is financially irresponsible to sell your stadium to fund one or two promotion bids when others are doing the same, I've just no idea what grounds we have personally to sue the EFL.

I've also no doubt that Gibson has people around him advising on why we should go ahead with it but it certainly wouldn't be the first time people around Gibson have made a bad decision if it's unreasonable. I think he's made enough mistakes recently that he's now in the spotlight for the company he keeps and decisions he makes with/through them and there's every right to be sceptical. Put it this way, would Gibson be pursuing this if we were in the Premier League right now? No chance, in my eyes.

Why should he? It wouldn't be his battle, but I have no doubt he would have sympathy for the club that did pursue it.

Just because he's made a mess with Monk, Pulis and poor spending doesn't mean that he can't disagree with the way the EFL are going by their day to day management of the FFP. If he is doing everything he can to keep his own club within the limits but thinks the EFL are just sitting on their hands with regards to other clubs then he has every right to challenge it. We've just seen a club go under partly because the EFL sat on their hands when the questionable owner took over. If Gibson thinks he's done everything he can behind the scenes with regard to the EFL he might have come to the conclusion that everything now needs to be done in public and handled by an impartial legal system.

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Not too sure if this is allowed here so feel free to delete/move this post. Has anyone got any experience using ExpressVPN or NordVPN? If so which is the best for streaming through the Boro website? My apologies if this isn't allowed here.

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I've got mixed emotions over this.

On one hand I think Gibson is fully justified in pursuing this if Derby are breaking the rules. On the other hand I think it also comes across like sour grapes because we've been poor in the last couple of years. I agree with Wilson that if we'd got promoted then Gibson wouldn't have been following through with this and I also think if Gibson had the funds or the motivation to do the same as Derby then he would. We've been a club that have had no problem spending our way out of this division on multiple occasions under Gibson, I know there's a difference between Derby potentially breaking the rules and us abiding by them but it still feels hypocritical to me.

The whole idea of financial fair play is a joke anyway. How can it be fair that we could spend 50m in the transfer market 2 years ago and run up a 50m wage bill when teams in our league were running on a fraction of that cost? They should either make everyone have to survive off the same resources or do away with the fair play tag because its anything but.

 

Edited by Duvel

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8 minutes ago, Duvel said:

I've got mixed emotions over this.

On one hand I think Gibson is fully justified in pursuing this if Derby are breaking the rules. On the other hand I think it also comes across like sour grapes because we've been poor in the last couple of years. I agree with Wilson that if we'd got promoted then Gibson wouldn't have been following through with this and I also think if Gibson had the funds or the motivation to do the same as Derby then he would. We've been a club that have had no problem spending our way out of this division on multiple occasions under Gibson, I know there's a difference between Derby breaking the rules and us abiding by them but it still feels hypocritical to me.

The whole idea of financial fair play is a joke anyway. How can it be fair that we could spend 50m in the transfer market 2 years ago and run up a 50m wage bill when teams in our league were running on a fraction of that cost? They should either make everyone have to survive off the same resources or do away with the fair play tag because its anything but.

 

Again why would he? It's a completely irrelevant point as he wouldn't have anything to do with the EFL if we were in the Premier League.

Spending money you have is allowed while spending money you don't have is not allowed which is the crux of FFP so I have no problem with relegated clubs on parachute payments spending huge. It usually means that Championship clubs get decent value for players they sell. It doesn't really work out anyway in a lot of cases.

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