'Other Boro stuff'

[thatoldchestnut 583]

Leganes have asked for permission to sign a replacement. I suppose we could let them have Gestede for3-4 million.

[mendieta420 1,006]

Somewhere tony pulis is absolutely fuming

[Borodane 6,294]

40 minutes ago, Duvel said:

What promises did we go back on? 

I didn't actually realise what the circumstances where that have allowed this transfer to happen, I feel sorry for Leganes.

After listening to the situation being discussed on Talksport it sounds like Braithwaite was signed because they couldn't really bring anyone else in outside of the window. I dont expect him to play much football once they have everyone fit. 

He’s said he was told that he was going to play as a striker. Within six months we hire a manager that doesn’t like him and almost plays him as a defensive winger in most games despite MB saying that he won’t be able to play to his strengths in that position. I’m not condoning anything MB did but Pulis has to take a lot of flack too for complete mismanagement when he had a talented player and we needed goals. Pulis was poison. 

[macapes 1,919]

2 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

That wasn't the comparison you raised though, was it? You were comparing next season, when the injured player/s are back and he's 2nd/3rd choice at Barca vs. playing in a Pulis team. If it's comparing playing at Barca vs. playing at Leganes then obviously, it's a no-brainer.

I said second/third string at Barca vs Tony Pulis' Boro.  I still don't see how that'd be a hard choice, substitute appearances playing with Barca or a manager who plays you, signed as a technical forward, as some sort of defensive winger lumping balls up front.

[wilsoncgp 9,276]

2 minutes ago, macapes said:

I said second/third string at Barca vs Tony Pulis' Boro.  I still don't see how that'd be a hard choice, substitute appearances playing with Barca or a manager who plays you, signed as a technical forward, as some sort of defensive winger lumping balls up front.

I'm not sure there's going to be a time when Braithwaite will be coming on as a sub for Barca though, beyond this season. He will be on a good deal, making good money and probably playing very little unless someone comes in to buy/loan him in the summer. I'm saying personally I'd prefer to be playing and doing my bit, Pulis or no Pulis. Playing football is a pretty short career, it baffles me in a way that some will spend it focusing more on capitalising on the money in the game vs. just wanting to get out and play whilst their body allows. It's an attitude that is generally looked down upon by fans when they're under contract at your club because players like him will make more than enough money to live comfortably and play every week.

[Will 2,958]

50 minutes ago, Borodane said:

He’s said he was told that he was going to play as a striker. Within six months we hire a manager that doesn’t like him and almost plays him as a defensive winger in most games despite MB saying that he won’t be able to play to his strengths in that position. I’m not condoning anything MB did but Pulis has to take a lot of flack too for complete mismanagement when he had a talented player and we needed goals. Pulis was poison. 

The contrast between this and your lack of sympathy for Ben Gibson's situation at Burnley is puzzling to say the least.

[Neverbefore 10,933]

"The player has been a gentleman and a professional. Yesterday he trained completely normally, knowing he could get injured. We'd like to thank him, his sporting performance has been immense."

 

it's funny how boro is the only club that have ever accused braithwaite of unprofessionalism isnt it...?

[macapes 1,919]

1 hour ago, Duvel said:

What promises did we go back on? 

I didn't actually realise what the circumstances where that have allowed this transfer to happen, I feel sorry for Leganes.

After listening to the situation being discussed on Talksport it sounds like Braithwaite was signed because they couldn't really bring anyone else in outside of the window. I dont expect him to play much football once they have everyone fit. 

It's definitely a terrible system, one that punishes the smaller sides, as it lets the big clubs force a move from the smaller teams, rather than using their youth teams to plug gaps like, say, Spurs have to.   

As to Braithwaite, it was clear he was signed as a starting forward, to play up front/left with Assombalonga/Bamford, like we played pre-season, inside forward style.  That will have been what was spoken about in the contract negotiations and the like.  There will also have been talk about the World Cup, playing position, etc.  He wasn't signing to be sat on the bench behind Gestede.

He was unlucky to get inured, but came back and scored a few, got MoM, etc.  Then Monk started his random tactics and team selections, playing people out of position, and generally we looked bad as a team.  I wouldn't fault any player in that run.

Then Pulis.    Against Villa he's played on the wing, is replaced by Traore, with Gestede up front.  Next league game he's dropped from the squad entirely, even with Guediora and Gestede starting.  Against Fulham he plays.  Next game he sits on the bench, as Ass and Gestede are traded off as one up front.  Last game for us he gets 11 minutes.

If I'm him, I can see what's happening.  Not getting games, not being played in position, behind Gestede in the pecking order, no consistency, and doesn't fit with Pulis' "vision". Add to that Pulis' masterclass in man management with any striker and I'd have wanted out.

[Borodane 6,294]

27 minutes ago, Will said:

The contrast between this and your lack of sympathy for Ben Gibson's situation at Burnley is puzzling to say the least.

Tbh I think it’s a bit of a different situation. I’ve also said that I don’t know much about Gibson’s situation other than he has been with boro more for the past two months than at his own club. And that sounds a bit fishy to me. Gibson hasn’t really said anything and I’m only answering a question about what was promised MB when he signed. And I’m not condoning MBs time here. 
 

I still stand by my opinion that if Gibson wasn’t a local lad I don’t think so many fans would want him with his history at Burnley. But being local and with ties to the club his commitment will obviously be different which is also why I’d gladly have him back. I’m just saying that I don’t think it’s all 100% Dyche’s fault - just like it wasn’t all Pulis’ fault although both managers arguably deserves a lot of criticism. 

[macapes 1,919]

27 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I'm not sure there's going to be a time when Braithwaite will be coming on as a sub for Barca though, beyond this season. He will be on a good deal, making good money and probably playing very little unless someone comes in to buy/loan him in the summer. I'm saying personally I'd prefer to be playing and doing my bit, Pulis or no Pulis. Playing football is a pretty short career, it baffles me in a way that some will spend it focusing more on capitalising on the money in the game vs. just wanting to get out and play whilst their body allows. It's an attitude that is generally looked down upon by fans when they're under contract at your club because players like him will make more than enough money to live comfortably and play every week.

I understand what you mean but the flip side of a short career is a need to make what you can from it.  He's nearly 29. For me, 6 months of playing with Barca, regardless of what happens in the summer, would mean more than a couple of years in the Spanish championship, or a lower tier Italian side, or wherever his next move would have been. 

The worst that can happen after that is he rides the bench or gets loaned out, which is hardly a hardship given his recent years of multiple clubs.  Pick up the Barca salary, play on loan somewhere else and he still plays.  Maybe he thinks he's good enough to show something in the next few months, gets to play a bit part in winning a title or two, play in the CL. 

[Borodane 6,294]

35 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

"The player has been a gentleman and a professional. Yesterday he trained completely normally, knowing he could get injured. We'd like to thank him, his sporting performance has been immense."

 

it's funny how boro is the only club that have ever accused braithwaite of unprofessionalism isnt it...?

Maybe it’s because he knew Barca was going to meet his release clause so he didn’t have to put on a show. I definitely think something went on here but I don’t think he acted like Pulis portrayed him. But his performance levels on the pitch visibly dropped. 

[macapes 1,919]

38 minutes ago, Will said:

The contrast between this and your lack of sympathy for Ben Gibson's situation at Burnley is puzzling to say the least.

That's an interesting comparison, to be fair.  Burnley and Gibson, Pulis and Braithwaite.

[wilsoncgp 9,276]

1 minute ago, macapes said:

I understand what you mean but the flip side of a short career is a need to make what you can from it.  He's nearly 29. For me, 6 months of playing with Barca, regardless of what happens in the summer, would mean more than a couple of years in the Spanish championship, or a lower tier Italian side, or wherever his next move would have been. 

The worst that can happen after that is he rides the bench or gets loaned out, which is hardly a hardship given his recent years of multiple clubs.  Pick up the Barca salary, play on loan somewhere else and he still plays.  Maybe he thinks he's good enough to show something in the next few months, gets to play a bit part in winning a title or two, play in the CL. 

If he can make the best of both worlds, earn the dosh and play (either at Barca or away on loan), then yeah I agree, the Barca move is a good one.

[Changing Times 12,338]

Someone may activate his €300m buy out clause at some point.

[wilsoncgp 9,276]

The difference is I think if Braithwaite applied himself, he would have played for Pulis. He wouldn't be the only player on big wages playing out of position or being played ineffectively but he would have been earning his keep. He showed that was true at the start of last season when he was our best player in August by a long shot.

However rightly or wrongly, Gibson hasn't played for Burnley because of Mee and Tarkowski, according to Dyche anyway. From what little I understand of Burnley's situation from a footballing standpoint, I can't say I disagree with his decision to play those 2 as they have by and large performed well.

Both players were probably told things that didn't end up being true, though. Gibson, as Burnley's record signing, you would think would almost certainly be getting some promise of playing football and he hasn't played. Braithwaite was brought in with Monk's tactical indecision but under the premise of playing on the front foot, we were quite public about that as a whole. Then we change manager and that changes and he completely switches off.

Both are professionals and signed long term contracts and neither of them (seemingly) have been true professionals throughout this situation but I can see why some would perhaps have a little more sympathy with Gibson than Braithwaite. But it doesn't seem like Gibson is 100% clean in this saga either.