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Boro V Nottingham Forest 1-1

Result V the merry men  

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  1. 1. Result V the merry men



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Guest Changing Times

Of course we've had decisions go in our favour this season. You just don't notice them as much as the ones that don't go for us. It's also highlighted more because of our own inadequacies - if we were 2-0 up last night instead of 1-0 it would still have been a poor decision but it wouldn't have cost us. Same thing for the 'goal' as Sheff Wed. Our biggest problem this season isn't refereeing, it's the fact that we're no better than average in this division. We've had runs where we've looked below average and a run where we looked above average but basically we're just average.

 

I thought Forest looked the better side, which disappointed me. The decision was obviously a poor miss from ref and assistant. Bit surprised to see Danny Graham getting criticised for his effort or work rate. I'd say that is a major part of his game personally and he put plenty in last night. I was also disappointed in our inability to gain control of the game and this criticism is probably directed at Karanka. I'm not seeing an ability to change the game a great deal since he started here. Every time there's a discussion about Karanka someone will always bring up some an involving Mourinho as though Karanka having worked with him will have just assimilated all of his knowledge. Well this is one area he doesn't seem to have done that yet in my opinion.

 

Having read through the comments after last night I'm a little bemused as to the optimism people have for next season? I can't see why people would be after that game. I thought Forest were the better side or rather the better footballing side perhaps is a truer statement and they're in a poor run of form and I believe had players missing? I think if last night shows anything it's how far we still need to go. If we want to be a serious promotion candidate then games like last night have to be put away more often than not. At the moment we clearly aren't capable of that, which is why we've only won one game in however many.

 

As the season now peters out attention will begin to turn to the summer ins and outs. I said a few months back that Mowbray had left us with a not especially good squad that needed a lot of work doing to it and was mostly shouted down. I wonder if a few months down the line those that did still feel the same now or have they changed their thinking? What will need to be done in the summer? Possibly questions for a separate thread but after another disappointing result and performance they would be relevant to ask now in my opinion and there's not much else to be talking about!

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It was a beautifully taken goal by Muzzy and I don't think anyone has mentioned Dimi's goal-line stop, which was also excellent. Definite hands ball but there's no point in crying about it, is there? With 10 more games to go, it will take straight wins for us to stand any chance of making the playoffs.

 

But then there's next season, and that will be great.


Of course we've had decisions go in our favour this season. You just don't notice them as much as the ones that don't go for us. It's also highlighted more because of our own inadequacies - if we were 2-0 up last night instead of 1-0 it would still have been a poor decision but it wouldn't have cost us. Same thing for the 'goal' as Sheff Wed. Our biggest problem this season isn't refereeing, it's the fact that we're no better than average in this division. We've had runs where we've looked below average and a run where we looked above average but basically we're just average.

 

I thought Forest looked the better side, which disappointed me. The decision was obviously a poor miss from ref and assistant. Bit surprised to see Danny Graham getting criticised for his effort or work rate. I'd say that is a major part of his game personally and he put plenty in last night. I was also disappointed in our inability to gain control of the game and this criticism is probably directed at Karanka. I'm not seeing an ability to change the game a great deal since he started here. Every time there's a discussion about Karanka someone will always bring up some an involving Mourinho as though Karanka having worked with him will have just assimilated all of his knowledge. Well this is one area he doesn't seem to have done that yet in my opinion.

 

Having read through the comments after last night I'm a little bemused as to the optimism people have for next season? I can't see why people would be after that game. I thought Forest were the better side or rather the better footballing side perhaps is a truer statement and they're in a poor run of form and I believe had players missing? I think if last night shows anything it's how far we still need to go. If we want to be a serious promotion candidate then games like last night have to be put away more often than not. At the moment we clearly aren't capable of that, which is why we've only won one game in however many.

 

As the season now peters out attention will begin to turn to the summer ins and outs. I said a few months back that Mowbray had left us with a not especially good squad that needed a lot of work doing to it and was mostly shouted down. I wonder if a few months down the line those that did still feel the same now or have they changed their thinking? What will need to be done in the summer? Possibly questions for a separate thread but after another disappointing result and performance they would be relevant to ask now in my opinion and there's not much else to be talking about!

 

Good post, and although I agree with much of what you've said, I don't go along with all of it. True, Karanka is not the messiah but, at the very least, he's turned us into a team that is hard to beat - which is another reason why bad refereeing shows up so much.

 

We are not the finished article yet and perhaps never will be (is there such a thing?) but I think the reason why so many people are looking forward to the summer - me a*** them - is that AK will have a chance to spend a bit of money. He will be more familiar with the market and he will have had time to consider his moves - which did not apply in the January window.

 

Karanka's pronouncements, and his body language, suggest increasing frustration that a lot of the players at his disposal fail to put his ideas into practice. This is down to player skill, not managerial skill.

 

And just to nail my flag to the mast, I'm not one of those people who reckon that Karanka has absorbed Mourinho's skills through some weird process of football osmosis. However, his credentials speak for themselves.

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Karanka's pronouncements, and his body language, suggest increasing frustration that a lot of the players at his disposal fail to put his ideas into practice. This is down to player skill, not managerial skill.

 

 

Couldn't one argue that managerial skill is making the players play with more skill?

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Karanka's pronouncements, and his body language, suggest increasing frustration that a lot of the players at his disposal fail to put his ideas into practice. This is down to player skill, not managerial skill.

 

 

Couldn't one argue that managerial skill is making the players play with more skill?

 

You could potentially argue that managerial skill is getting the most out of your players but you can't literally make someone more skilled.

 

That's all on the player, his work rate, his effort in training, his willingness. Some players just have limits and nothing Karanka can do will change that.

 

 

And CT, I think most people are excited for the summer and next year because AK has made us difficult to beat. He needs to improve our scoring ability. He knows that, we know that, so I think we're all excited to see what attacking options we bring in over the summer. I know I'm stoked to see if we get any of that continental technique.

 

It's also interesting to see who'll still be here. Will any of Ledesma, Carayol or Adomah still be here? (I hope so for the latter two especially)

 

With us signing Tomlin through 2017 you have to imagine he's the lynchpin in the centre of the AMs.

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Guest Changing Times

 

Good post, and although I agree with much of what you've said, I don't go along with all of it. True, Karanka is not the messiah but, at the very least, he's turned us into a team that is hard to beat - which is another reason why bad refereeing shows up so much.

 

We are not the finished article yet and perhaps never will be (is there such a thing?) but I think the reason why so many people are looking forward to the summer - me a*** them - is that AK will have a chance to spend a bit of money. He will be more familiar with the market and he will have had time to consider his moves - which did not apply in the January window.

 

Karanka's pronouncements, and his body language, suggest increasing frustration that a lot of the players at his disposal fail to put his ideas into practice. This is down to player skill, not managerial skill.

 

And just to nail my flag to the mast, I'm not one of those people who reckon that Karanka has absorbed Mourinho's skills through some weird process of football osmosis. However, his credentials speak for themselves.

 

Cheers bud.

 

He has turned us into a team that is harder to beat that's certainly true. Before Mowbray left though we weren't losing that often, it was more the fact that we weren't winning much that was the issue. That there has been an improvement is clear of course but maybe not as drastic as some people try and make out?

 

It remains to be seen how much money will be spent in the summer or who will actually be spending it. I can't see a huge amount being spent and I have concerns as to who will be selecting the players. People also need to consider that last night we had FOUR loan players in our starting line up. So those players need to be replaced straight away and there are question marks over a few others in my opinion. In fact, reading over comments in match threads over the last two months I'd say there were question marks over more than a few in many people's eyes. That could mean a lot of coming and going in the summer.

 

Karanka's frustration with the players has been evident but I don't think you can say conclusively it's down to player skill. He may be asking them to do things they simply aren't capable of for example either because of a question of technique or football intelligence. I'm also dubious about a manager that starts slating his players publicly on a regular basis.

 

Other than as a player, Karanka has very few credentials to go on. Really he's developing them here with us now. It remains to be seen what they will be. My own view at this time is that promotion next season is unlikely. I'm yet to be convinced by him and I'm largely unconvinced by the group of players we currently have. The summer may change the latter and time may change the former. We shall see.

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The one difference between defensively under Karanka compared to before is I no longer expect us to shoot ourselves in the foot and lose concentration in the last few minutes.

 

Sure, we still make the occasional mistake but they're not the NORM anymore.

 

He's definitely got us believing in ourselves defensively, concentrating all the way.

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Guest Changing Times

 

And CT, I think most people are excited for the summer and next year because AK has made us difficult to beat. He needs to improve our scoring ability. He knows that, we know that, so I think we're all excited to see what attacking options we bring in over the summer. I know I'm stoked to see if we get any of that continental technique.

 

It's also interesting to see who'll still be here. Will any of Ledesma, Carayol or Adomah still be here? (I hope so for the latter two especially)

 

With us signing Tomlin through 2017 you have to imagine he's the lynchpin in the centre of the AMs.

 

I think what he actually needs to improve is our winning games ability, whether that's 1-0 or 5-4 doesn't matter so much but of course some of that will be tied in with sorting out the attack.

 

You mention bringing in attacking options but you also rightly point out that Tomlin is likely to be a linchpin and that you hope to see Adomah and Carayol staying so really you're only talking about a possible new striker and maybe another wide attacking player?

 

I understand that this is interesting but I'm less sure it's cause for optimism as such?


The one difference between defensively under Karanka compared to before is I no longer expect us to shoot ourselves in the foot and lose concentration in the last few minutes.

 

Sure, we still make the occasional mistake but they're not the NORM anymore.

 

He's definitely got us believing in ourselves defensively, concentrating all the way.

 

I would agree with that. There is less of the calamity about us than there has been previously.

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Forest are ***e. Plus they have a Kuwaiti in charge of their club. What's all that about?

 

Would have happened last season. We can't defend against lumps like Darius Henderson.

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And CT, I think most people are excited for the summer and next year because AK has made us difficult to beat. He needs to improve our scoring ability. He knows that, we know that, so I think we're all excited to see what attacking options we bring in over the summer. I know I'm stoked to see if we get any of that continental technique.

 

It's also interesting to see who'll still be here. Will any of Ledesma, Carayol or Adomah still be here? (I hope so for the latter two especially)

 

With us signing Tomlin through 2017 you have to imagine he's the lynchpin in the centre of the AMs.

 

I think what he actually needs to improve is our winning games ability, whether that's 1-0 or 5-4 doesn't matter so much but of course some of that will be tied in with sorting out the attack.

 

You mention bringing in attacking options but you also rightly point out that Tomlin is likely to be a linchpin and that you hope to see Adomah and Carayol staying so really you're only talking about a possible new striker and maybe another wide attacking player?

 

I understand that this is interesting but I'm less sure it's cause for optimism as such?


The one difference between defensively under Karanka compared to before is I no longer expect us to shoot ourselves in the foot and lose concentration in the last few minutes.

 

Sure, we still make the occasional mistake but they're not the NORM anymore.

 

He's definitely got us believing in ourselves defensively, concentrating all the way.

 

I would agree with that. There is less of the calamity about us than there has been previously.

 

Yes I'd agree the winning games ability is important, but my comment was more towards I don't expect us to concede a 91st minute own goal or headed goal from a corner or a cheap through ball or anything stupid like that to lose points. I used to expect us to concede any time the opposition strode into our half, but I don't get that same fear anymore.

 

I'd LIKE to see AA and MC stay, because I think when they play together it's very difficult to stop both of them.

 

Do I THINK they'll both stay? No. If AA continues being out of favour and MC continues upping his game like he has since he came back, I'm actually very worried we'll lose both of them in the summer.

 

I think we could be looking at getting almost an entirely new attack (bar tomlin obviously).

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Watching the game on Tuesday was a good example of how we have changed as a side under AK - organised and solid as a team, pressing high up the pitch and trying to break quickly with pace.

 

Forest on the other hand reminded me of Boro under Mogga - some nice approach play and passing, but often a lack of cutting edge.

 

many people thought Forest were the better team - I'd agree they played well in parts - but we created the better chances over 90 minutes.

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I'm afraid that I don't share this optimism for the summer, boro fans have said the same thing, year after year, "if we can just get through this season then we can off load the deadwood and bring in new faces" has been the mantra since the days of Strachan.

 

If you think about it, AK has fallen out with several players, and told them that they will never play for this club again, these include Steele, Carayol and Emnes, so I think they'll be gone in the summer, he's also fallen out with Adomah, loaned out Juke and Smallwood, so I would imagine that they aren't in his plans. We will also lose Varga and our other loan signings, Woody isn't getting any younger and Rhys will take a while to come back from injury.

 

I'm skeptical as to where transfer money will come from, crowds get smaller by the week and FFP will be an issue. As someone said early, the skill to managing is "managing" the staff that you already have, I would rather AK did that, than bankrupted our club.

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Do we know for sure that AK has fallen out with Steele, or could it be that Steele isn't playing just because he only has one reserve game in 4 months.

 

Also, the "falling out" with Muzzy seems to have done him the world of good. Again, we have no idea what actually happened, all I know is that he didn't exactly set the world before he was dropped, and it has certainly upped his game. Adomah too seems like he needs a reminder that he needs to add consistency before he can expect to start every match.

 

You seem to be blaming AK for a lot of things noone actually knows anything about.

 

Also loaning out Emnes and Juke was something almost every fan could agree with. Neither were performing here and both will hopefully raise some interest in the summer following regular gametime. If juke can take his form into next season he will have a massive confidence boost, and then I even want to keep him.

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I think you suppositioning a lot there Billy, the same Carayol that has played twice in 4 days and is seemingly fine with the manager?

 

I think the same goes with AA, I don't think he thinks he had fallen out with AK...

 

Steele is more than likely going to be sold in the summer regardless as is Emnes and Juke, the latter two with a higher value than 3 months ago. So again you have to give it to AK re Emnes and Juke.

 

I genuinely am looking forward to the summer.

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The Carayol thing seems odd as well, because if you heard Carayol talk about it he basically said the manager thinks what he thinks, but Muzzy doesn't think it went down like that.

 

Clearly there was a big difference between what they each think happened.

 

Still, glad that seems to be sorted now!

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