Jamie-H 1,322 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 We've just been told to expect a big name labour politician every 3 days from now on in the area so the pushback has begun at the grassroots. And if anyone has seen the Leave leaflet it is simply flags of European countries with populations saying they are coming, it is not the type of campaigning that is genuine it is distorting facts and ignoring genuine questions people deserve answers to before they vote. I have a busy 10 days ahead that's for sure... Not this guy then? http://www.labour.org.uk/people/detail/kevin-small But yeah, it's worrying how many people think it's just a vote on whether we should let any more immigrants in... To be fair there is definitely a brain drain happening at Labour so it might well be Kevin Small! I tell the doorstep all the time I'm certainly no fan of the Tories nor am I satisfied with Labours leadership but this isn't a referendum about them it's about you and your children. It's about visa free holidays, it's about an easy retirement on the continent if you want when you're older and it's about being involved in constructing new leadership in Europe beyond the Franco German norm of the past 30 years. One group massively ignored at the moment is farmers they get huge subsidies through the Common Agriculture Policy that many UK farmers use to stay afloat and keep their farms going. For the Leave campaign to promise them same level funding is one of many grand promises despite the group running Leave want small government and a privatised NHS despite their leaflets. A weaker farming industry puts them at the mercy of supermarkets who will drive costs down and therefore quality of produce. Alot at stake that people simply do not realise on the doorstep the EU affects your dinnerplate, your wallet, your holidays and even your football team. Signing U21 EU players under the WP proposals at the home office would be extremely hard we certainly would have no chance signing Arnel Jakupovic if we were not in the EU. The impact is wide ranging I accept the impact of the EU fisheries policy is not necessarily overtly positive but policy can be changed only from within. Link to post Share on other sites
bugrit 31 Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 On the immigration issue, it's always been the people with get up and go who make the brave decision to get up and go. Immigration played a huge part in Britain's domination of the 19th century and it was the mass migrations of the 20th century that made the United States the powerhouse it now is. Gene pools stagnate and go into decline without constant refreshment. Link to post Share on other sites
Brunners 7,952 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 It's from the Daily Mail so I don't tend to believe to much of what they say but this is interesting because a lot of it is stuff my Dad has mentioned to me before. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3640078/It-s-not-just-plot-let-1-5-million-Turks-DANIEL-HANNAN-outlines-ten-bombshells-EU-s-keeping-secret-ve-voted.html There's a lot of thing Brussels is holding back on because they think it'll have us vote to leave if they announced it now. Link to post Share on other sites
DanFromDownSouth 1,706 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I've seen a lot people mention the whole Turkey joining the EU as a reason to vote leave. But to join the EU you have to pass 35 areas. Turkey so far have passed 1. 1 out of 35, and they started working to pass these about 10 years ago. If they keep passing them at the rate they are currently going they won't be able to join the EU for another 340 years. Edit: Turkey actually applied to join the EU precursor in the 60's. So it's been over 50 years and they still aren't allowed to join. Link to post Share on other sites
Jamie-H 1,322 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I'd say this Brunners there is a reason the PM called the ref June 23rd, a summer of refugees like we saw last summer would swell anti immigrant sentiment. There is no doubting the EU is playing this very carefully not to put out any controversial policy decisions but the hairdryer thing has already been killed by the commission. This morning I saw updated internal polling they're figuring on a 56% turnout it would be a tight win for us 53 47 with around 63% of registered labour voters eventually onside and only 19% of remain vote coming from registered Tories 10% Lib Dem 3% Green and only 2.5% SNP. The Turkey scare blitz you mention Dan has misinformed so many people I spend half the time dispelling it leaving little time to make a positive case for what the EU gives us in rights, protections and funding. Gun to my head, we will win it on a 60%+ turnout but less than that we are in serious trouble. Incredible how essentially an employment minister who is on record saying they want to rid workplaces of unions and unpopular people like IDS/Gove will win more labour votes than all of the labour leadership candidates bar Corbyn could muster. Link to post Share on other sites
wilsoncgp 9,228 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Boro was on Newsnight tonight about the referendum. The entire area seems very split, I'd argue most are Leave voters right now. Link to post Share on other sites
BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 One group massively ignored at the moment is farmers they get huge subsidies through the Common Agriculture Policy that many UK farmers use to stay afloat and keep their farms going. For the Leave campaign to promise them same level funding is one of many grand promises despite the group running Leave want small government and a privatised NHS despite their leaflets. A weaker farming industry puts them at the mercy of supermarkets who will drive costs down and therefore quality of produce. The leave campaign has no power to make promises regarding funding. They are merely a pressure group, not a government or a potential government. Link to post Share on other sites
wilsoncgp 9,228 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 The leave campaign has no power to make promises regarding funding. They are merely a pressure group, not a government or a potential government. And yet they are getting incredible support from regular, hard-working people. If that doesn't scare anyone, I don't know what will. This area in particular usually stands firm against Tory-led promises but a lot of them just feel let down by Labour and their inability to talk about immigration. Remain really don't have a foot to stand on to talk about it though. They can't promise anything. All they can do is like Hilary Benn said on Newsnight, promise that they will veto any country from joining who they don't feel will benefit us. Link to post Share on other sites
Jamie-H 1,322 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Boro was on Newsnight tonight about the referendum. The entire area seems very split, I'd argue most are Leave voters right now. It's not looking good I know we expect majorities in Newcastle and Redcar thanks to strong local campaigning they could both show 65-35 for remain if we get the turnout but speaking to the area team for Stockton and Middlesbrough last week we could lose there despite them having low EU migration so it is hard to explain it other than a protest vote at the Labour party. Should point out though the C2 social class is high in Middlesbrough unfortunately meaning they are less likely to vote on the day. They are the kind of people Labour is losing to UKIP in industrial towns disillusioned with government. Durham has a high student population relatively affluent that will be a win and Newcastle is the big numbers we need in the region but losing Middlesbrough by a 10% margin would be a blow especially when all of Middlesbroughs business leaders support remain including Steve Gibson. Link to post Share on other sites
MidleastBoro 30 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I think (hope) that the majority of people are now fed up of being dictated to by a failing Brussels and will choose to become independent from them. I've always supported leave but assumed fear would lead to us voting remain; as time goes on I'm becoming cautiously optimistic that we'll actually leave. Link to post Share on other sites
DanFromDownSouth 1,706 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 MidlandsBoro, serious question here. You mentioned about us "being dictated to by a failing Brussels" what do you actually mean by this? What are your views on how we are being dictated too (Like what in particular is it)? Link to post Share on other sites
MidleastBoro 30 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 MidlandsBoro, serious question here. You mentioned about us "being dictated to by a failing Brussels" what do you actually mean by this? What are your views on how we are being dictated too (Like what in particular is it)? The red line for me personally in this issue has always been the lack of sovereignty that we are able to exercise as a country. We do not have enough control over the decision makers in Brussels to be able to remove them if we do desired; we would need collective support from the other member states, and there's no guarantee of that happening (in fact it's highly unlikely that it would). For example, we've voted 55 times to stop a measure becoming British law, and we have lost 55 times. That's 55 British laws that are in place and that we must abide by that we, the electorate and the elected, didn't want. How is that democratic? How would we, as an electorate, go about removing those laws? We can't. Link to post Share on other sites
bugrit 31 Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 Ah, but how many of those 55 laws have been to the advantage of the working man? Link to post Share on other sites
Will 2,958 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Isn't that very similar to our 'democracy' in Britain? Link to post Share on other sites
MidleastBoro 30 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Ah, but how many of those 55 laws have been to the advantage of the working man? How is that relevant? Link to post Share on other sites
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