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A Middlesbrough artist has spent 9 years creating a model of the St Hilda's area of the town, as it would have appeared in the Victorian era...now that's dedication!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-57305482

When he's finished it, Steve Waller (known as the Michaelangelo of Middlesbrough) plans to donate the model to the town council, so it can be put on display.

 

 

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Happy New Year guys.🥳🥳🥳

Well...it finally happened... I guess it was only ever a matter of time. Enough forumites have liked him that he has finally taken on his true form...the demon known to religious scholars a

Have a great Christmas fellas. Hope Santa makes all of your dreams come true, (apart from beating us again) 🤣 Us, you, and the Barcodes next season eh?👍👍👍

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On 5/26/2021 at 7:18 PM, wilsoncgp said:

Which, given evidence to his truths, shouldn't be a hard thing to do.

That's where I think we have a significant problem though. It's not just whether people believe his truths, it's whether people care about them.

It honestly feels sometimes like we could literally have Boris Johnson embroiled in his own equivalent of the Watergate scandal and it wouldn't significantly change enough about how people view him. Maybe that's pessimism on my part, I don't know. Politics in this country just feels like a TV show that's gone on for too many seasons at this point.

Agree with a lot of this. PMQs in particular feels like a bad reality TV show (which I suppose in a way it is). Also hate the way so many MPs simply try to change the subject, rather than give honest answers to questions.

However I think the media and public are at least partly to blame...or maybe just society in general.

Now that politics and politicians are scrutinised under the microscope of social media, TV and press and can't sneeze without being judged, I don't think its surprising that we've ended up in this situation.

 

Going back to the postwar period, when TV coverage was limited and MPs / Prime Ministers generally only gave carefully rehearsed interviews, information could be controlled far better and a lot more business could be done behind closed doors. Journalists tended to do as they were told and not overstep boundaries, for fear of being frozen out.

The public, being far less informed about what was going on, tended to trust governments to do their job. So MPs just had to put on a good public face and that was that.

 Parliament was far less multicultural back then. People didn't worry about things like representation of minorities, LGBT rights, racism, the environment / climate change etc.

Scandals, when they became public, were pretty rare and the person in question usually did the decent thing and fell on their sword, as it were.

 

Now with every MP and government aide having smartphones, its nigh on impossible to keep anything secret. Parties are expected to have views on a far wider range of social issues and policies to keep everyone happy.

Modern journalists are far more aggressive in their questioning and digging for information. Tabloid journalism made trashing peoples' reputations and invading their privacy almost a sport. The Leveson inquiry forced them to rein it in a bit, but I think everyone learned a lesson from that - namely to be a lot more guarded about what they say and do.

The public are generally a lot more easily offended now. Tolerance, understanding and common sense seem to have plummeted, while political correctness has skyrocketed...adding to politicians' fear of saying anything that might offend someone, or lead to public embarrassment.

So...when you add all that together, its little wonder that modern politics seems like a circus when every decision, sentence, social media post or rumour, is spread around the internet and argued over. No wonder politicians now act more like footballers in front of the camera - talking a lot without really saying anything of interest and only coming out with standard "party line" statements.

Particularly when you've got the opposition (and in some cases former party members) trying to do character assassinations and rip holes in your policies. I know thats part of the opposition's job, but it would be more interesting if they had some feasible alternatives to offer.

 

I think being in government is a pretty thankless job at the best of times. No matter what you do, there will always be someone criticising you for something. In these times I think they deserve a bit more leeway than usual (up to a point).

Someone once said you get the government you deserve and just to expand on an earlier point, I think the way the country has evolved over the last 60-70 years has determined the kind of politicians we have.

 

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19 hours ago, AnglianRed said:

 Parliament was far less multicultural back then. People didn't worry about things like representation of minorities, LGBT rights, racism, the environment / climate change etc.

Sounds like the DUP today, the place and party where time stood still. Overall Stormont does a pretty good job of trying to keep politics and policies in the 1950's. Scary to think that Northern Ireland is part of the Union but the Union as it was and not as it is in 2021. 

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2 hours ago, Redcar Rioja said:

Sounds like the DUP today, the place and party where time stood still. Overall Stormont does a pretty good job of trying to keep politics and policies in the 1950's. Scary to think that Northern Ireland is part of the Union but the Union as it was and not as it is in 2021. 

A lot of that I feel is down to the whole Catholic v Protestant conflict. So much time and effort is concentrated on that, that everything else tends to take a back seat and social progress stagnates. Everyone is so entrenched in their views and unwilling to compromise. Incredible to think that abortions were a criminal offence until 2019.

Of course, it doesn't help when you have former terrorists as members of parliament.

Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to suggest that the UK or its politics were necessarily in a better place way back when. Just that information was easier to control and that the public typically weren't nearly as demanding or critical of politicians as they are now.

 

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1 hour ago, AnglianRed said:

A lot of that I feel is down to the whole Catholic v Protestant conflict. So much time and effort is concentrated on that, that everything else tends to take a back seat and social progress stagnates. Everyone is so entrenched in their views and unwilling to compromise. Incredible to think that abortions were a criminal offence until 2019.

Of course, it doesn't help when you have former terrorists as members of parliament.

Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to suggest that the UK or its politics were necessarily in a better place way back when. Just that information was easier to control and that the public typically weren't nearly as demanding or critical of politicians as they are now.

 

Former being the key phrase, and they are elected representatives just like any other members of parliament. Also, I daresay if you ask the entirety of their voters, freedom fighters may be the term they prefer. 

Youre right about the abortion thing, but worth pointing out that that is only the case because of a technicality that stormont wasn't sitting at the time. Had they been in doing their jobs, dup would have been able to veto it and we'd be still in the same situation. They're still trying to roll it back, and have a pretty decent chance of being successful tbh.

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1 hour ago, AnglianRed said:

Incredible to think that abortions were a criminal offence until 2019.

Don't kid yourself unfortunately, the "law" may have changed but nothing else has. Only last week the DUP Deputy Leader Paula Bradley was forced into making a "reviewed" statement because of her "liberal" opinions on the topic. 

"Hours after the Belfast Telegraph reported Ms Bradley’s call for the DUP to reconsider its block on other parties bringing a paper to the Executive in a bid to get abortion services rolled out here, a much more hardline statement – firmly outlining the party’s traditional position on the issue – was put out by her."

You can imagine the type of "persuasion" used sadly. Hardly surprising however when they have just elected a Leader who believes the world is only 6,000 years old and who doesn't believe in evolution. No wonder issues like the Protocol are impossible to discuss with that level of mentality and mindset. 

The biggest shame is for the people who live there, impossible to move forward, advance and develop, constantly anchored to the past and led by Politicians who make Boris look like a genius. Whilst we are debating about racism and BLM over here, segregation and bigotry is still a way of life for many over there.

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35 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

Former being the key phrase, and they are elected representatives just like any other members of parliament. Also, I daresay if you ask the entirety of their voters, freedom fighters may be the term they prefer. 

Well as I recall the IRA was formally designated a terrorist organisation...though I don't recall the government's position on their unionist counterparts. 

It was bloody stupid IMO allowing guys like McGuinness to even be allowed to stand for election. Must have been pretty galling for the other parties, to say the least, to have people who were known to have planned or participated in killings and bombings, taking part in the democratic process.

Its like enlisting in an anti-bullying program, then finding out you have to work with the *** who made your life at school hell.

 

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4 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

Well as I recall the IRA was formally designated a terrorist organisation...though I don't recall the government's position on their unionist counterparts. 

It was bloody stupid IMO allowing guys like McGuinness to even be allowed to stand for election. Must have been pretty galling for the other parties, to say the least, to have people who were known to have planned or participated in killings and bombings, taking part in the democratic process.

Its like enlisting in an anti-bullying program, then finding out you have to work with the *** who made your life at school hell.

 

Well for that conversation you need to understand everything that led to them starting that fight. It began as a peaceful civil rights movement as Catholics were (and still are to an extent) treated as second class citizens in this country. There was then a violent reaction from the loyalist side which lead to the conflict. It was a war. The IRA used guerilla tactics and yes, were designated the label terrorists. But that's only part of the story.

 

I really recommend watchingthe BBC documentary series on the troubles. It's extremely well made, engaging and really gives a more balanced overview of what actually happened as opposed to the standard British "terrorists bad" rhetoric you'll get most of the turn. 

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22 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

Well for that conversation you need to understand everything that led to them starting that fight. It began as a peaceful civil rights movement as Catholics were (and still are to an extent) treated as second class citizens in this country. There was then a violent reaction from the loyalist side which lead to the conflict. It was a war. The IRA used guerilla tactics and yes, were designated the label terrorists. But that's only part of the story.

 

I really recommend watchingthe BBC documentary series on the troubles. It's extremely well made, engaging and really gives a more balanced overview of what actually happened as opposed to the standard British "terrorists bad" rhetoric you'll get most of the turn. 

Catholics in essence were both physically and mentally battered because they had the temerity to protest for one man one vote as their voting rights were next to useless, those of them that is that could actually vote. The Police over there at the time had "B Specials" which were reservists who were entirely made up of Loyalists who seen Catholics as third class citizens. Even the Police (RUC) themselves were something like 96% Protestant. Those Catholics that could vote done so under the most blatant gerrymandering in any "developed" western nation rendering their votes useless.

Peaceful equal rights marches were dealt with by the Police and "B Specials" in a brutal and intimidating manner. Basically the logic was give them a good hiding and get them back in line and know their place. With that backdrop some individuals took to something more severe than bricks, cobblestones and broken up paving slabs and bottles. As the saying goes, one man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. 

Unfortunately ignorance and incompetence from the Westminster Government dealt with it by sending young lads over in the form of the Army with no training or skills to deal with civil disorder (truth being that it was only the Irish so it was good enough for them) under the leadership of Captains and Majors equally ill informed and not fit for purpose. At first the Catholics actually welcomed the British Army with open arms making them cups of tea and giving them tea and biscuits, seeing them as their protectors. The British Government however stupidly left the RUC as the arm of the law and it wasn't long before young soldiers were being used as back up by the RUC to carry on regardless only in far greater numbers.

The Army should never have been deployed in the manner in which they were at the time and it took decades for Westminster to realise that the Police over there were as much a part of the problem as the "terrorists". By that time there were so many paramilitaries on both sides that all control and law and order had been lost. To this day the "terrorist" organisations on both sides still exist and still hold their own "courts". Drug dealing is now a huge enterprise for them and keeps the "Mr Bigs" in power. Today the UK authorities turn a blind eye to what in essence is rife gangsterism and extortion. Meanwhile efforts have been made to make the Police force more representative along with a new name PSNI.

The situation should never have been allowed to get to the stage it did in the late 60's and the subsequent actions of all involved is nothing to be proud of. The legacy that is left was a sort of "peace" with a very thin veneer with the hope that younger generations would grow out of it but unfortunately those with competence and ability still continue to be Northern Ireland.s greatest export for all of the above reasons leaving the Dinosaurs running and ruining the place. History has now just repeated itself under the guise of Brexit highlighting that Westminster still don't understand and don't really care about Northern Ireland and those who live there, giving no thought or consideration to the consequences of a hastily cobbled together Protocol plan riddled with faults. I will refrain from claiming that for many in Government Irish lives don't matter but it certainly looks that way to me.

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1 minute ago, Neverbefore said:

Thanks for writing that @Redcar Rioja. It perfectly sums up what has happened and continues to happen here and it's heartening to know that it's not completely lost over there. 

Things have moved on and we are now in a situation where the majority Loyalist Population are now at best 50/50 with Catholics and in fear of losing their stranglehold which has been guaranteed for 100 years. Being part of the EU was a blessing in reaching the Good Friday Agreement and having no border and all that came with that. The Loyalist population now see the Westminster Government selling them out which they have in all but name and being cut adrift to survive in a sea of Catholicism and the EU. 

Emotionally and psychologically they are now going through what the Catholic population did fifty years ago (and before then). Their hope lies with the mainland and without it they are in effect neutered. Seemingly abandoned and the very real fear that they will shortly be in a minority (ironically in part because of their stance on abortion as Catholics are having more offspring) no wonder they have resorted to rioting and disruption as well as physical threats to Politicians and even Customs and Ports workers.

To my mind they are in an incredible position to negotiate a fantastic future for the six counties giving them a very unique and enviable status if the Stormont politicians were really clever and to take a huge step forwards giving them a huge advantage over both the UK and the Republic (indeed even over the rest of the EU). History will show that Poots and Co. and the rest of the Stormont assembly will have failed the people and failed them badly. It will also show that Westminster cut them adrift and the consequences of all that is yet to play out. The problem for Loyalists now is that they are damned if they do and damned if they don't and that is always a dangerous position for anyone to find themselves in as it was back in the 60's when the Catholic population had literally nothing to lose.

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  • 2 weeks later...

One Boro Knows All!
I have a discussion with a friend ... 

Is this sentence correct English: For the first time in long time, I am free?

And if it's not correct, what should it be, to be correct? 

Thanks

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Just now, SmogDane said:

One Boro Knows All!
I have a discussion with a friend ... 

Is this sentence correct English: For the first time in long time, I am free?

And if it's not correct, what should it be, to be correct? 

Thanks

"For the first time in a long time, I am free?"

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