Jump to content
oneBoro Forum

Has the academy production line broke down?


Recommended Posts

Mowbray gave Jones and Morris their first starts and it hasn't particularly pushed their development onto the next level. Park had a few minutes and he's no longer in professional football. Strachan put L.Williams in the team when he was really young and he just got worse and worse. He turned down loans elsewhere as he was pampered and didn't have the right character to develop. The opportunity didn't help any of them so it's not all positives. I'm sure Karanka could easily have gave a few pretty meaningless minutes to youngsters off the bench like Morris, Cooke, Maloney and Chapman to give off a façade that he isn't afraid to play youth players but just because they don't get minute in our team it doesn't mean the path to the first team isn't there.

 

It's unfair to use Morris in this argument. You say he "hasn't exactly developed into the next level" well I ask you, since Mowbray left, have you even seen him play?  Or is it that he's simply been overlooked that you base your argument that he's not good enough?

 

It's simply because he has failed to impress in the lower leagues out on loan for quite a few clubs. Even for Mowbray who rated him very highly but he failed to break into his Coventry side. That's strong evidence that he hasn't pushed onto the next level so it's hardly surprising that Karanka chose to bring in Zucculini to cover midfield. Many promising youngsters come through with loads of potential and hype but then fade away.

 

Morris was one of the brightest prospects fbour club and made a very good cup performance that I saw. I haven't seen him since. The others you mentioned were not even half be prospect of Morris so I will allow these to be used.

 

You're right, he was, but it would appear now that he isn't any longer. Hopefully he can push on and fulfil his rumoured potential. He looked a really good player in the England youth games that I've watched him in.

 

You have to wonder why coaches, players, the manager, Italian and our local media outlets all rate him and were even calling for him to be given his first start against burnley. Something doesn't smell right if karanka doesn't think he's good enough.

 

It would appear that his development has stalled somewhat by how his loans have worked out.

The reports I have seen for chapman going on loan all point to bar else having lack of squad depth. That doesn't sound to me like he's going there to play many games.

 

It's a great opportunity for Chapman to prove himself capable of performing in League 1 and make a strong case to Karanka to give him his opportunity next season.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 304
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Mowbray gave Jones and Morris their first starts and it hasn't particularly pushed their development onto the next level. Park had a few minutes and he's no longer in professional football. Strachan put L.Williams in the team when he was really young and he just got worse and worse. He turned down loans elsewhere as he was pampered and didn't have the right character to develop. The opportunity didn't help any of them so it's not all positives. I'm sure Karanka could easily have gave a few pretty meaningless minutes to youngsters off the bench like Morris, Cooke, Maloney and Chapman to give off a façade that he isn't afraid to play youth players but just because they don't get minute in our team it doesn't mean the path to the first team isn't there.

 

It's unfair to use Morris in this argument. You say he "hasn't exactly developed into the next level" well I ask you, since Mowbray left, have you even seen him play?  Or is it that he's simply been overlooked that you base your argument that he's not good enough?

 

It's simply because he has failed to impress in the lower leagues out on loan for quite a few clubs. Even for Mowbray who rated him very highly but he failed to break into his Coventry side. That's strong evidence that he hasn't pushed onto the next level so it's hardly surprising that Karanka chose to bring in Zucculini to cover midfield. Many promising youngsters come through with loads of potential and hype but then fade away.

 

Morris was one of the brightest prospects fbour club and made a very good cup performance that I saw. I haven't seen him since. The others you mentioned were not even half be prospect of Morris so I will allow these to be used.

 

You're right, he was, but it would appear now that he isn't any longer. Hopefully he can push on and fulfil his rumoured potential. He looked a really good player in the England youth games that I've watched him in.

 

You have to wonder why coaches, players, the manager, Italian and our local media outlets all rate him and were even calling for him to be given his first start against burnley. Something doesn't smell right if karanka doesn't think he's good enough.

 

It would appear that his development has stalled somewhat by how his loans have worked out.

The reports I have seen for chapman going on loan all point to bar else having lack of squad depth. That doesn't sound to me like he's going there to play many games.

 

It's a great opportunity for Chapman to prove himself capable of performing in League 1 and make a strong case to Karanka to give him his opportunity next season.

 

The part about media coaches and players was regarding chapman, not Morris . I accept the counter arguments about Morris and I'm not in a position to argue otherwise

Link to post
Share on other sites

Great article Powlay. I've expressed my disappointment at our lack of use of the academy. It's a gold mine and we refuse to use it unless it's forced up on us. I hope the development of Fry might open Karanka's eyes to it's possibilities.

 

Again, why risk our promotion chances by playing untested youth players?

 

Again, why risk our promotion chances by playing other teams untested youth players?

 

We don't play them, which is half the point. And those that we brought in are ALL tested with at least 1 season in leagues against adults. (Usually. Not always, Velkjovic I think was an anomaly).

 

Yes we do. Kalas last season, kalas this season. Fredericks. Bamford. The mysterious Blackman appearance against Liverpool... Where was Ripley? Velkjovic was given a few games to prove himself. McCechran... To name a few. Are you suggesting we do not have youth players of similar or better quality?

 

We have to trust in the decisions made by the coaching staff at the club... They are the only people who sees players day in day out and are able to make the judgement call. I think it would be naive to think the likes of Dave Parnaby don't have a say on where and if youth players go out on loan- why only suggest that's it's Karankas decision.

 

I know Dave Parnaby is disappointed in the uptake of academy graduates to the first team. I'll leave it at that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I know Dave Parnaby is disappointed in the uptake of academy graduates to the first team. I'll leave it at that.

 

I've tried to keep my posting to my views but I'd like to confirm what Humpty has said. I'd point out as well that it's not just Dave that is disappointed.

 

Regarding Morris I said at the time Coventry was a strange move it was never going to work for him there.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sorry but I just struggle to see the problem with not having youth players around in a promotion chasing season. Players like Harry Chapman should go off to Barnsley and prove they can play in a tougher league than they're used to.

 

I just think it's a case of our youth just aren't actually that good and we don't have spare bench spots to be wasting on them when we could have a more experienced head on the bench.

 

I also think I might have figured out the Stephens loan, not only does he have league one experience, he's both a CB and a CDM. Do we have any youth players that fit that role? Maybe that's why he was brought in, and also why we were in for Lindelof too. Perhaps we just don't have anyone good enough in that role.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes and you will struggle to see the problem with not having youth around in a relegation struggle team aswell :)

 

But its fine, I am just oldfashioned and dont like the new football world, takes some time to get used to, Ill come around eventually I am sure.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If we were in a team like Blackburns position with noting to fight for then yes, give as many young players a chance but when you are fighting for promotion it isnt really the place to be taking those sort of risks. Its not like we cant afford to bring in these loan players

Link to post
Share on other sites

well right now I like our squad even the loan players ;) I have no problem loaning in quality. Kike Sola I do question though, but I undertand that he is safer than Chapman would had been, and its better to have Chapman out on loan then being a third choice.

 

But some risks are worth taking sometimes, you cant play it safe all the time

 

Who Dares Wins

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is some good arguments to both sides..

 

I think we also all have an element of 'Rose Tinted' views of our youth players!

 

Who remembers the Steele V Butland conversations from a few years back. Those who couldn't understand why Butland was being picked over Steele at England U21's - why because Butland is the better keeper as is demonstrated by where there career path have gone.

 

Equally being outstanding at U19 or U21 level has no baring on where a professional career will go. How many wonder kids have disappeared into League 1/2 or even Non-League obscurity.

 

We have to trust in the decisions made by the coaching staff at the club... They are the only people who sees players day in day out and are able to make the judgement call. I think it would be naive to think the likes of Dave Parnaby don't have a say on where and if youth players go out on loan- why only suggest that's it's Karankas decision.

 

Personally I'd rather see our youth players playing at the highest level their current progress allows. If that's deemed to be League 2 that's fine.

 

If you need a player on the bench who 99 times from 100 won't get a game - I'd rather that not be one of our youth players, who otherwise could be out on loan gaining experience.

 

 

Feel free to go back to the Steele vs Butland thing and see what my opinions were  :dodgy:

Whilst i will not pretend i do have a view on our youths that may be slightly biased i would say its a educated opinion. Where as a lot of replied in here are anything but.

How many of the people replying have watched Chapman IN PERSON. How many have watched our U18s in a league game? How many have watched out U21s?

 

Again though another you miss the point. This isnt about sitting on the bench for a season, Maloney has not been on loan, Cooke has not been on loan, chapman just went out, Fry has not been on loan, the list is long. 

 

So they wouldnt be playing elsewhere would they?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yeah, Morris, the guy that didn't impress in either of his loan spells in lower divisions.

 

Sure, lets whack him on the bench, why not.

 

Cooke and Maloney I can't really talk about because they've got literally 0 games between them. Neither seem to be excelling in the U21s Premier League though, although Cooke had a very good UEFA youth league with 4 goals and 1 assist in 5 games, suggesting he probably wasn't playing as a pure CM anyway.

Morris DID impress though, read what JFH had to say about him or Sean O'Driscoll.

Cooke and MAaoney you cant talk about? why? have you not seen them play?

As for Cooke, you dont have a clue, so again why comment?

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is some good arguments to both sides..

 

I think we also all have an element of 'Rose Tinted' views of our youth players!

 

Who remembers the Steele V Butland conversations from a few years back. Those who couldn't understand why Butland was being picked over Steele at England U21's - why because Butland is the better keeper as is demonstrated by where there career path have gone.

 

Equally being outstanding at U19 or U21 level has no baring on where a professional career will go. How many wonder kids have disappeared into League 1/2 or even Non-League obscurity.

 

We have to trust in the decisions made by the coaching staff at the club... They are the only people who sees players day in day out and are able to make the judgement call. I think it would be naive to think the likes of Dave Parnaby don't have a say on where and if youth players go out on loan- why only suggest that's it's Karankas decision.

 

Personally I'd rather see our youth players playing at the highest level their current progress allows. If that's deemed to be League 2 that's fine.

 

If you need a player on the bench who 99 times from 100 won't get a game - I'd rather that not be one of our youth players, who otherwise could be out on loan gaining experience.

 

 

Feel free to go back to the Steele vs Butland thing and see what my opinions were  :dodgy:

Whilst i will not pretend i do have a view on our youths that may be slightly biased i would say its a educated opinion. Where as a lot of replied in here are anything but.

How many of the people replying have watched Chapman IN PERSON. How many have watched our U18s in a league game? How many have watched out U21s?

 

Again though another you miss the point. This isnt about sitting on the bench for a season, Maloney has not been on loan, Cooke has not been on loan, chapman just went out, Fry has not been on loan, the list is long. 

 

So they wouldnt be playing elsewhere would they?

 

Nope but if for whatever reason a player was forced off and we needed to bring on one of those youths, I'd much rather Zucculini and Stephens over morris & Co because they're an unknown quantity.

 

I respect your ties to the youth team and I defer to your opinion when it comes to judging their talent but I still think there's anything wrong with how this year is playing out.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've said it earlier in the post I'm certain Karanka will get updates from the youth team coaches all the time, and will be given an indication whether they're ready to step up.

So while some on here may not have seen much of the youth players, the youth team coaches, and Karanka and Agnew have, so you must respect their judgement. Karanka must have been told and then seen for himself that Fry was ready.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×
×
  • Create New...