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Has the academy production line broke down?

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In the old Reserve leagues it was easier to gauge the youngsters coming through against teams who were populated by players of all ages, talents and experiences. Now since the introduction of the age related leagues with a few overage quotas to help players get back to fitness, the ability and route to the first team for youngsters has taken a step back imo.

 

I do think that while we were in the top flight and our competitors were still thinking about building/updating their academies our ability to get more than our fair share of the top talent was maybe a big factor in generating a conveyor belt it seemed of good lads ready for the first team with a first team management team who were happy to use them as and when.

 

Since relegation I do believe that our ability to attract the top young players both locally and further affield has reduced dramatically, add to this a succession of managers who either had no choice but to use the young lads like TM and it started to become clear that the players we had never seemed to kick on from the potential that the club or gazette attached to them.

 

Now I think we are starting to see that we getting good youngsters coming into the academy and progressing but the % of them that will ever be ready or considered good enuff for a team looking for promotion back to the top flight is back down to the realistic levels of 1-2 a year, which is a good ratio imo.

 

Sending out players on loan to other clubs and how they kick on and respond is now the route to the first team unless a short term injury forces the management teams hand. With the number of player allowed on the bench it would seem logical to have 1-2 youngster named each match which would be great, however given a choice between unproven talent and proven talent at the level or near the level the first team is playing should always trump idealism especially in sport, and Stephens and Zucholini both had more proven game time against a better quality of opposition than our youngsters did and I do believe thats why they were brought in rather than from our own youngsters.

 

Ive read on here that the academy staff are frustrated by the lack of opportunities in recent years but i wonder is the frustration due to the lack of 1st team involvement they can use to attract into the club and keeping the players they responsible for happy regardless of whether the right choice is to recruit externally.

 

I want to see the best team that the Boro can put out each match and for them to play in the highest and best league and cup competions as possible, to do so I have to trust that the club gets it right more times than wrong. Does it stop me wondering and questioning team selections, no it doesn't and the banter and puzzlement of some of the choices is great to take part in, especially as my livlihood and families future is not dependent on me getting the balance between head and heart wrong.

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I've said it earlier in the post I'm certain Karanka will get updates from the youth team coaches all the time, and will be given an indication whether they're ready to step up.

So while some on here may not have seen much of the youth players, the youth team coaches, and Karanka and Agnew have, so you must respect their judgement. Karanka must have been told and then seen for himself that Fry was ready.

 

You're right he does get updates/recommendations from the youth team coaches...

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I've said it earlier in the post I'm certain Karanka will get updates from the youth team coaches all the time, and will be given an indication whether they're ready to step up.

So while some on here may not have seen much of the youth players, the youth team coaches, and Karanka and Agnew have, so you  must respect their judgement. Karanka must have been told and then seen for himself that Fry was ready.

 

 

Do you know that youth coaches have not said YES these players are ready, and then the players have not been given a opportunity?

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Nope but if for whatever reason a player was forced off and we needed to bring on one of those youths, I'd much rather Zucculini and Stephens over morris & Co because they're an unknown quantity.

 

I respect your ties to the youth team and I defer to your opinion when it comes to judging their talent but I still think there's anything wrong with how this year is playing out.

Why are the youth players unknown quantities? Because they have no or little first team experience? 

 

Theyve trained with the first team, theyve played with the first team in friendlies. Theyre not unknown.

 

A example of unknown might be a championship manager buying a south american on the basis of DVD's for £2.6m then hardly playing him.

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You keep quoting my posts and then not writing anything?

 

 

I was trying to reply whilst removing all the useless other quote parts, but struggling.

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Nope but if for whatever reason a player was forced off and we needed to bring on one of those youths, I'd much rather Zucculini and Stephens over morris & Co because they're an unknown quantity.

 

I respect your ties to the youth team and I defer to your opinion when it comes to judging their talent but I still think there's anything wrong with how this year is playing out.

Why are the youth players unknown quantities? Because they have no or little first team experience? 

 

Theyve trained with the first team, theyve played with the first team in friendlies. Theyre not unknown.

 

A example of unknown might be a championship manager buying a south american on the basis of DVD's for £2.6m then hardly playing him.

 

Playing in training and playing in first team friendlies does make them unknown. Until you play in the first team you don;t know if tehy will make it or not.

 

Alan Moore was the next Ryan Giggs before he got in the team, how did that end.

 

Playing first team football is a total different pressure, and until they play in the first team we are unknown if thay have it mentally to cope.

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I wont argue you wont know how they deal with pressures and how they will perform, but they're not totally unknown though.

 

Didnt the Alan Moore 'giggs' tag come out AFTER he made his first team debut?

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I've said it earlier in the post I'm certain Karanka will get updates from the youth team coaches all the time, and will be given an indication whether they're ready to step up.

So while some on here may not have seen much of the youth players, the youth team coaches, and Karanka and Agnew have, so you  must respect their judgement. Karanka must have been told and then seen for himself that Fry was ready.

 

 

Do you know that youth coaches have not said YES these players are ready, and then the players have not been given a opportunity?

 

To put it bluntly :D

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Yeah slightly less blunt than my response that didnt post.

 

You know its quite hard knowing things and not tying them.

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Genuine question, because I respect Powlay and Humpty and I also respect that your are both privy to information that you can't provide here. Why is it, in your opinion, that AK is ignoring his youth coaches to bring in other teams youths etc to sit on the bench? As I say, absolutely genuine question with no hint of sarcasm (and I stress the point because it's often easy to be misconstrued when typing a question).

 

Thanks.

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Honestly I just don't think it's that big a deal.

 

I know we're a team that values our academy but at the end of the day were a promotion chasing team too and I'm just not convinced the two are compatible.

 

 

I could maybe understand the "why loan others in when we've got our own" argument but I don't buy that either (apart from specific cases)

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Nope but if for whatever reason a player was forced off and we needed to bring on one of those youths, I'd much rather Zucculini and Stephens over morris & Co because they're an unknown quantity.

 

I respect your ties to the youth team and I defer to your opinion when it comes to judging their talent but I still think there's anything wrong with how this year is playing out.

Why are the youth players unknown quantities? Because they have no or little first team experience? 

 

Theyve trained with the first team, theyve played with the first team in friendlies. Theyre not unknown.

 

A example of unknown might be a championship manager buying a south american on the basis of DVD's for £2.6m then hardly playing him.

 

If they have done all of this, then isn't Karanka well within his rights to decide whether or not these players are good enough to potentially be thrown on in a championship match due to an injury?

 

As for the bit about De Pena, if true that seems a strange move but I'm sure we heard from the gazette and on here that Leo had seen him play in Uruguay and then we scouted him further? If what you mean is Karanka never saw him play in person, I have absolutely no problem with that.

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Honestly I just don't think it's that big a deal.

 

I know we're a team that values our academy but at the end of the day were a promotion chasing team too and I'm just not convinced the two are compatible.

 

 

I could maybe understand the "why loan others in when we've got our own" argument but I don't buy that either (apart from specific cases)

Got to agree with you 100%, we all want to see our youth team players successfully step up, but now is not the time and the place for me.

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The arguments gotten a little bit off track talking about many youths past and present who were not good enough to to be used Let's focus on the ones that are good enough but are not being used and ask ourselves should we worry for the future of our academy.

 

Reach, no longer a youth be came through our ranks. Sent on loan and replaced. He is now getting rave reviews and comparisons to bale. Karanka thinks he's not good enough.

 

Dael fry. Looks good enough. Used as a last resort. Every CB has been used before he got his game.

 

chapman. Had more endorsements front the other two combines. Sent on loan.

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