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Boro vs Watford 0-1


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We look like a Premiership side in name only, no shots on target against poor Watford side is embarrassing.

Karanka when its going wrong doesn't seem to have a clue how to change tactics and putting Rhodes on with 2 minutes to go was a complete joke, the players have had it drilled into them to play in a certain way its mechanical and methodical.

We are a boring, non entertaining awful side to watch and I can honestly see why Koeman and Pochettino didn't rate Ramirez enough to play him, for our No 10 position he looks anything but a PL player.

I questioned our dealings in the transfer market and the players brought in have not done IMO very little to strengthen us, we brought in quantity rather than quality and its coming home to roost.

I fear the worst against ***nal and Eddie Howe will come to the Riverside and attack, and if we are targeting teams like Burnley and Hull for points then they must surely be targeting us, we are that poor.

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My reasons for the wait-and-see approach isn't because I think he'll change his style. Absolutely not. I just don't think the style of play is the reason we can't score goals. I think the lack of quality in the team is the problem there, thus why I find it somewhat hard to blame the manager too much.

 

After all, what would a new manager do that Aitor hasn't? Change the system, yeah, so how do we play better in a different system if we still don't have the players to create chances?

 

Yeah, lets point to the one time that has happened ever since the Premier League became a thing and use it as a debate-breaker.  :rolleyes:

 

If you're going to use bad examples to prove a point, I'll use another. Aston Villa. Since February 15, Paul Lambert left after a relatively long stint in charge. Sherwood comes in and is soon gone. Garde comes in and is useless. Eric Black takes over until the season's over and Di Matteo, who comes in, is gone already and replaced by Bruce.

 

So how did their ideas work out for Villa? I'm sure they're absolutely delighted to have gotten rid of Lambert and his poor tactical decisions. Made it so much better for them by getting rid of him, didn't it?

 

I understand the point you're making and you already know my thoughts on our squad but Villa is a bad example to use.  Firstly they were steadily reducing their budget so the squad was getting worse over time to the point where it wasn't a Premier League calibre squad in my opinion.  Secondly, I believe a head of recruitment was responsible for their signings and he was pretty bad by the looks of it.  So in that sense I'm not sure how much you can blame any of their managers for either the squad that was put together or what they were able to do with it.  In fact, if you look at their squad, only three of their players were picked up by Premier League clubs this summer and ironically we signed two of them for some inexplicable reason. Sadly we didn't sign the only decent one.

 

You can't say any of the above about us.  We have increased our budget over the last couple of seasons and our manager is supposedly the man who decides which players we sign.  I don't believe that's the case personally or he is just a really poor judge of a player possibly.  When you sign players that don't appear to fit what you do then something is wrong.  When you sign players that don't appear to be good enough then something is wrong.  When you sign players where the manager clearly lacks faith in them then something is wrong.  I think something is wrong at Boro and like it or not the manager is going to be the central part of that, one way or another.

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There's no way I would want to watch the awful football big sam teams produce after getting rid of the negative and boring football of AK.

 

Need someone more attacking and pleasing on the eye.

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We look like a Premiership side in name only, no shots on target against poor Watford side is embarrassing.

Karanka when its going wrong doesn't seem to have a clue how to change tactics and putting Rhodes on with 2 minutes to go was a complete joke, the players have had it drilled into them to play in a certain way its mechanical and methodical.

We are a boring, non entertaining awful side to watch  and I can honestly see why Koeman and Pochettino didn't rate Ramirez enough to play him, for our No 10 position he looks anything but a PL player.

I questioned our dealings in the transfer market and the players brought in have not done IMO very little to strengthen us, we brought in quantity rather than quality and its coming home to roost.

I fear the worst against ***nal and Eddie Howe will come to the Riverside and attack, and if we are targeting teams like Burnley and Hull for points then they must surely be targeting us, we are that poor.

 

We totally had one, Forshaw basically passed one at Gomes!

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Here's an unpopular opinion. We actually managed to play really well in the first half. Sure, we didn't create much - but that's what happens when you want to cross the ball into the box with no one there (and *** poor crossers like Friend, Barragan, Stuani).

 

I hope Karanka is feeling adventurous soon, and decides to bring on Fischer/Traore on the flanks. Sure, they might lose the ball a couple of times from dribbling, but we lack the something unpredictable. Even Friend has stopped his signature rush down the left, cut inside, and then do nothing.

 

I feel confident in our center midfield - they retain the ball, they let us go forward. Sure, they don't play the golden through pass for our lightning quick Negredo, but we do have the ball. Ramirez wasn't very lucky in many of his actions today, but at least he tried.

 

I'm sorry for being the optimistic one here, but I really do see something in our *** poor performance. It's a tweak here and there. I don't want to rely on Stuani getting lucky with a long shot, or some random ass corner. But let's remember, we lost 1 point today from a long shot. 3 points against Stoke from a Shaqiri screamer, and 3 points against West Ham through Payet ***in on us. We didn't play well, but did any of us honestly expect us to roll over these teams?

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No meaningful shots on target is probably what he meant. I think we had three 'shots' on target that I can remember - Forshaw, Negredo with a kind of shot that didn't have much on it and Negredo with a header that had even less on it.

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My reasons for the wait-and-see approach isn't because I think he'll change his style. Absolutely not. I just don't think the style of play is the reason we can't score goals. I think the lack of quality in the team is the problem there, thus why I find it somewhat hard to blame the manager too much.

 

After all, what would a new manager do that Aitor hasn't? Change the system, yeah, so how do we play better in a different system if we still don't have the players to create chances?

 

Yeah, lets point to the one time that has happened ever since the Premier League became a thing and use it as a debate-breaker.  :rolleyes:

 

If you're going to use bad examples to prove a point, I'll use another. Aston Villa. Since February 15, Paul Lambert left after a relatively long stint in charge. Sherwood comes in and is soon gone. Garde comes in and is useless. Eric Black takes over until the season's over and Di Matteo, who comes in, is gone already and replaced by Bruce.

 

So how did their ideas work out for Villa? I'm sure they're absolutely delighted to have gotten rid of Lambert and his poor tactical decisions. Made it so much better for them by getting rid of him, didn't it?

 

I understand the point you're making and you already know my thoughts on our squad but Villa is a bad example to use.  Firstly they were steadily reducing their budget so the squad was getting worse over time to the point where it wasn't a Premier League calibre squad in my opinion.  Secondly, I believe a head of recruitment was responsible for their signings and he was pretty bad by the looks of it.  So in that sense I'm not sure how much you can blame any of their managers for either the squad that was put together or what they were able to do with it.  In fact, if you look at their squad, only three of their players were picked up by Premier League clubs this summer and ironically we signed two of them for some inexplicable reason.  Sadly we didn't sign the only decent one.

 

You can't say any of the above about us.  We have increased our budget over the last couple of seasons and our manager is supposedly the man who decides which players we sign.  I don't believe that's the case personally or he is just a really poor judge of a player possibly.  When you sign players that don't appear to fit what you do then something is wrong.  When you sign players that don't appear to be good enough then something is wrong.  When you sign players where the manager clearly lacks faith in them then something is wrong.  I think something is wrong at Boro and like it or not the manager is going to be the central part of that, one way or another.

 

TBF, it was a primitive response to a primitive response. How anyone can back their argument for changing manager because Leicester won the league when they did it baffles me. Just like Villa, their scenario was completely different and in their case, the response was unheard of.

 

That's not only the response to changing manager either, not just the fact they won the league. There's plenty of other reasons that happened as well. But there's the reason they changed their manager too. They changed their manager because of the debacle in Thailand with Pearson's son not because of poor results. I cannot see how anyone would map that to AK's situation with us.

 

As for our recruitment, I've mentioned earlier I'm starting to think you might be right regarding our recruitment. Not necessarily that all our signings have been poor as such but that they're not huge improvements on what we have for the most part and that we didn't pump enough money into buying players who would solve the problem of us creating chances. Because for me, what I was watching today was fine until we got into the final third. Watford were bloody awful and we just needed that bit of quality to beat them.

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TBF, it was a primitive response to a primitive response. How anyone can back their argument for changing manager because Leicester won the league when they did it baffles me. Just like Villa, their scenario was completely different and in their case, the response was unheard of.

 

That's not only the response to changing manager either, not just the fact they won the league. There's plenty of other reasons that happened as well. But there's the reason they changed their manager too. They changed their manager because of the debacle in Thailand with Pearson's son not because of poor results. I cannot see how anyone would map that to AK's situation with us.

 

As for our recruitment, I've mentioned earlier I'm starting to think you might be right regarding our recruitment. Not necessarily that all our signings have been poor as such but that they're not huge improvements on what we have for the most part and that we didn't pump enough money into buying players who would solve the problem of us creating chances. Because for me, what I was watching today was fine until we got into the final third. Watford were bloody awful and we just needed that bit of quality to beat them.

 

Yeah I know bud, I saw the posts and got why you were saying what you were saying.  You weren't wrong in that respect.

 

Our signings are what they are.  For me, de Roon isn't worthy of a starting place and he was our big money move  Nothing I've seen suggests to me that he is even close to being value for money.  I just had a look at the stats so far this season and he appears to be worse than Clayton in almost every category, which is saying something.  Forshaw who we all know would have been fourth choice this season has ended up our best midfielder and probably the second best player for us so far but only because two players got injured.  

 

Fischer is whatever he is. He's a back up player or he would be a back up player for pretty much everyone else in the Premier League and even if he was better he doesn't seem suited to us anyway. Maybe you could call him a project but WTF are we doing signing projects?  Traore is another one. He's so raw it's unreal and yet he is one of the few additions that you feel could do something worthwhile. That's about £23/24m plus wages etc right there and really what have we spent it on? Add Rhodes to that and you're talking about £35m on players that don't appear to be good enough or our manager doesn't seem to rate.  Three of them on the bench today and the one that wasn't may as well have been for all he offered us.  This cannot be right.

 

Think about last season and other than Ramirez and Clayton our best players weren't signed by Karanka.  Ayala, Gibson, Dimi, Friend and Adomah.  Look at this season and the guy that couldn't get into the team last year looks miles ahead of the guy we've just signed for £12m and our best player by some distance so far is an academy product.  I have no doubt that Karanka has played his part in Gibson's development to be fair but our track record in the transfer market in his time here looks decidedly dodgy to me.  Some of the players we signed this summer have got to step it up for us and for him.

 

But anyway go through the rest.  Guzan and Valdes - why two keepers?  Espinosa another back up player I assume.  Barragan is average at best at this level.  Ramirez we had last season and there were clear question marks over his previous efforts in the Premier League so it's not like we didn't know there was a big possibility that he might not cut it.  Fabio presumably will either eventually replace Friend or he's just another back up player.  Negredo in on loan, had issues with his attitude apparently last season but I can at least see why we signed him - that one to me makes sense.  If it doesn't work out then it doesn't work out but I at least understand it.  I can't say that about some of the others.

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Karanka certainly deserves a lot of the blame but I'd also point some upstairs. If we assume Adomah/Reach cancel out De Roon our net spend is something like 10m which lets be honest everyone at the start of the summer assumed we would treble even quadruple. We showed very little ambition really. 

 

Not to mention every single one of our signings was a waaay larger than average gamble. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, we could have been sitting here with Negredo having knocked in 5 or 6, Ramirez carrying on his excellent champ form and Valdes playing like he did at Barca unfortunately none have pulled up any trees and we are now looking in deep poo.

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I know quite a few fans of bigger teams who are quite simply baffled why we signed Fischer and aren't playing him as they all seem to rate him a lot higher than we seem to.

 

Probably because they, just like us in the summer, were going off his prior reputation. We've now seen him play and started to judge why he probably shouldn't be in our starting XI.

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I know quite a few fans of bigger teams who are quite simply baffled why we signed Fischer and aren't playing him as they all seem to rate him a lot higher than we seem to.

 

How many of them rate him because he was good on FM though and a few years back was a highly rated prospect?  That Ajax dude came on here in the summer and said he hasn't been playing well since he came back from his injury so even though he looks like he's just had a good season he really hasn't. He hasn't played much for us but what we have seen hasn't been much to write home about. You could pick him in the next game because Ramirez isn't doing anything but you couldn't pick him based on what he's done because he hasn't done anything.

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