Boro v West Ham 1-3

[Betamaxman 14]

 

Spot on.

 

Actually not spot on at all. You simply can't say that we'd be "lingering in league 1" without Karanka. No one knows.

 

That is absolutely trying to pass some thing off as fact to make a pro Karanka point. NONE of us know where we would have been.

 

We could equally have got an attack minded coach in, and been transformed in to an attack minded / focused side pushing for or promoted to the PL. No one knows.

 

Karanka has done alright for sure. Fair play. But we've now won 4 in 22 now. Are the league's lowest scorers. Are almost certainly the most boring team to watch. If people see fit to moan, then bloody let them.

 

I actually enjoyed the game today, and thought there were some positives, but I think AK was a bit of a div with some of his comments.

 

I get the fact that the overly positive super fans are probably so, in order to counter the overly negative... but the superior lectures all the time, and cry baby *** is *** annoying.

 

Does this not apply to Karanka then? He saw fit to moan and did so.

 

For what it's worth, I don't agree with his comments but I don't fully disagree with his comments. There were moans and groans from the crowd.

 

His comments were fine. People here give it but can't take it it seems.

 

This. This a thousand times this. Superiority complex comes to mind. No body is bigger than the club, not even the fans

 

Hmmm. That's kind of a bit daft. If there were no fans there wouldn't be a club for long.

 

Superiority complex who?

[Guest Changing Times]

Largely poor quality game between two poor sides littered with mistakes that lead to it being more open than most of our usual performances. Result was more than fair and indeed could have been worse if West Ham had been given the penalty they should have had almost on half time when Friend brought their lad down or Lanzini hadn't bottled his chance early in the second half. Either would have ended the game as a contest there and then.

 

We started slowly, West Ham were the better side up until we scored. Poor defending for the corner for their first and our right hand side was a weak link for us throughout. Great play from us for our goal, really nice football and for a little while it looked like we were going to take control of the game but it never happened. Second goal again coming initially down our right hand side and Carroll reacted quickest. Second half we again started slowly (is the pre-match and half time beverage Ovaltine or something?). We should have conceded again but Lanzini messed up. The game settled more into a pattern of West Ham sitting deeper and us huffing and puffing to little or no effect. Traore just about the only threat we actually had in reality. West Ham were quite content for us to shuffle the ball out wide and then swing crosses in. Only twice did we cause them any real issue, once with de Roon and once where Cresswell ended up ***ting the ball against Stuani before it hit the bar. Other than that we did nothing and didn't look likely too either. The third goal West Ham got obviously came as a result of us overcommitting forward chasing the equaliser but as I said they should have scored before that anyway.

 

Back four looked susceptible all game but the three in front of that were a big problem in my opinion as well. Espinosa looks like a back up player at best. He was all over the place at times, hopefully still just adjusting to playing here or we've wasted another signing. It was clear we had issues on our right and one of the three in midfield should have basically slotted in over there as soon as we lost the ball to cover Traore. Completely pointless having three in midfield if they aren't capable of filling holes in our lines especially when all three players are essentially defensive players or rather not attacking players in any meaningful way. The bulk of the performances were the same as always, Stuani right place right time again but other than that didn't do much and Negredo doing his usual. Traore had a lot of positives though with some good crosses today. Some boneheaded mistakes as well but more good than bad in my opinion and was our only serious threat.

 

No idea what the subs were about, someone is going to tell me they were attacking moves but the whole thing looked and felt disjointed to me. If you've got Gestede coming on then get someone on to supply him, Bamford isn't that player with all due respect to him (Stuani wouldn't have been either to be fair). To be honest, Negredo should have been the one off and Stuani left on arguably cos I have more faith in him getting on the end of a chance and finishing it than Negredo right now.

 

Heard the stuff from Karanka after the game and read on here the usual suspects agreeing with every word, big surprise there of course. The atmosphere was good today and the fans were right behind the players. Fans being criticised for wanting the team to attack is ridiculous. If Karanka's intentions really weren't to play long balls (we do this as often as anyone in the league don't we, statistically I mean?) then he should feel free to explain what the plan was. We didn't bring Gestede on for his silky skills and unless there's a clause in Negredo's contract then Stuani would have been better left on as a goalscorer alongside the big man than Negredo. It felt to me that we were quite clearly going big up top (oo-er) but apparently that's not what Karanka wanted. I assume he wanted us to keep shuffling the ball out wide and throwing crosses in and hope that we connected with one. That's mostly what we did anyway really but having an actual winger on with good delivery (Downing maybe?) would have been a better bet for that than Bamford. Like I said, the thinking was disjointed and Karanka has nobody to blame but himself for that.

 

For the all the talk that this was a more attacking display I'd be willing to bet that they had more shots than us and they certainly had better chances. Did we even have more than two shots on target, I can't remember a save their keeper had to make other than from de Roon? It was a largely similar performance to most of what we get with the difference being more mistakes, us being behind for the majority of the game against a bad side and thus having to chase the game against a team that really shouldn't have been able to keep us at bay but they unfortunately they were able to do just that.

 

No idea where we go from here. Karanka's comments were pathetic and really don't hold up under any scrutiny for people prepared to actually think them through properly. He keeps changing the team and to my mind this is now effecting us at the back as we looked shaky there against Watford as well. That's the only thing we've had going for us this season so if we lose that without any improvement going the other way then we're in trouble. As it is it feels as if we're reliant on the teams below us continuing to be rubbish because we just don't look like winning games. Big week for all concerned coming up I'd say.

[Betamaxman 14]

Having read the comments I'm not to fussed if i'm honest. Think it roughly translates as "please show me some loyalty".

 

Without him - he is right, we would be lingering in league one.

 

Probably still shouldn't have said it - not that it makes anything he said wrong.

 

I think i am more upset with the local RAG coming out with "AITOR SLAMS FANS". Did he? or did he slightly criticise them for this one match (out for 150+ he has managed)? 

 

What's that? Boro fans criticise the team daily yet are criticised once themselves they go home to their message boards crying and sobbing claiming foul and uncalled for.   :s

 

Big babies, grow up ya fannies  :D

 

Spot on.

 

Actually not spot on at all. You simply can't say that we'd be "lingering in league 1" without Karanka. No one knows.

 

That is absolutely trying to pass some thing off as fact to make a pro Karanka point. NONE of us know where we would have been.

 

We could equally have got an attack minded coach in, and been transformed in to an attack minded / focused side pushing for or promoted to the PL. No one knows.

 

Karanka has done alright for sure. Fair play. But we've now won 4 in 22 now. Are the league's lowest scorers. Are almost certainly the most boring team to watch. If people see fit to moan, then bloody let them.

 

I actually enjoyed the game today, and thought there were some positives, but I think AK was a bit of a div with some of his comments.

 

I get the fact that the overly positive super fans are probably so, in order to counter the overly negative... but the superior lectures all the time, and cry baby *** is *** annoying.

 

Does this not apply to Karanka then? He saw fit to moan and did so.

 

For what it's worth, I don't agree with his comments but I don't fully disagree with his comments. There were moans and groans from the crowd.

 

His comments were fine. People here give it but can't take it it seems.

 

I'm not all that bothered about AKs comments mate. I was pointing out that we actually don't know where we'd be without him.

 

(I'm also not saying anything negative about Karanka either).

[SmogDane 4,055]

We are all a bunch of vvankers... Can we move on now :)

 

I have only been a member here for six months, and I think the atmosphere normally is great.

 

It's like we are split into 2 big groups. Pro Karanka (build from the back, conservative and safe) VS Karanka out (we want Messi and Ronaldo'ish players) ....

 

Split in 2 just like politics, which is just as fooked up.

 

I bet we all love the Boro, so let's please get along ... Let anybody be entitled to have their wicked opinion. Be large, and have fun discussing. A bit dramatic these last days :)

 

In the end, we have no say... The club will fair as it should/can no matter how much we argue and get frustrated behind our screens at home.

 

Frustrated is part of being a football fan... If you dwell upon it.. it feels worse and will last longer... If you get over it, and look forward, remembering the best parts.. It's a little easier to cope with..

 

Had a few pints, so I love u all <3

 

#UTB

[BoroNut 31]

 

Spot on.

 

Actually not spot on at all. You simply can't say that we'd be "lingering in league 1" without Karanka. No one knows.

 

That is absolutely trying to pass some thing off as fact to make a pro Karanka point. NONE of us know where we would have been.

 

We could equally have got an attack minded coach in, and been transformed in to an attack minded / focused side pushing for or promoted to the PL. No one knows.

 

Karanka has done alright for sure. Fair play. But we've now won 4 in 22 now. Are the league's lowest scorers. Are almost certainly the most boring team to watch. If people see fit to moan, then bloody let them.

 

I actually enjoyed the game today, and thought there were some positives, but I think AK was a bit of a div with some of his comments.

 

I get the fact that the overly positive super fans are probably so, in order to counter the overly negative... but the superior lectures all the time, and cry baby *** is *** annoying.

 

Does this not apply to Karanka then? He saw fit to moan and did so.

 

For what it's worth, I don't agree with his comments but I don't fully disagree with his comments. There were moans and groans from the crowd.

 

His comments were fine. People here give it but can't take it it seems.

 

I'm not all that bothered about AKs comments mate. I was pointing out that we actually don't know where we'd be without him.

 

(I'm also not saying anything negative about Karanka either).

 

Wasn't directed at any one in particular mate!

[Will 2,958]

Largely poor quality game between two poor sides littered with mistakes that lead to it being more open than most of our usual performances. Result was more than fair and indeed could have been worse if West Ham had been given the penalty they should have had almost on half time when Friend brought their lad down or Lanzini hadn't bottled his chance early in the second half. Either would have ended the game as a contest there and then.

 

We started slowly, West Ham were the better side up until we scored. Poor defending for the corner for their first and our right hand side was a weak link for us throughout. Great play from us for our goal, really nice football and for a little while it looked like we were going to take control of the game but it never happened. Second goal again coming initially down our right hand side and Carroll reacted quickest. Second half we again started slowly (is the pre-match and half time beverage Ovaltine or something?). We should have conceded again but Lanzini messed up. The game settled more into a pattern of West Ham sitting deeper and us huffing and puffing to little or no effect. Traore just about the only threat we actually had in reality. West Ham were quite content for us to shuffle the ball out wide and then swing crosses in. Only twice did we cause them any real issue, once with de Roon and once where Cresswell ended up ***ting the ball against Stuani before it hit the bar. Other than that we did nothing and didn't look likely too either. The third goal West Ham got obviously came as a result of us overcommitting forward chasing the equaliser but as I said they should have scored before that anyway.

 

Back four looked susceptible all game but the three in front of that were a big problem in my opinion as well. Espinosa looks like a back up player at best. He was all over the place at times, hopefully still just adjusting to playing here or we've wasted another signing. It was clear we had issues on our right and one of the three in midfield should have basically slotted in over there as soon as we lost the ball to cover Traore. Completely pointless having three in midfield if they aren't capable of filling holes in our lines especially when all three players are essentially defensive players or rather not attacking players in any meaningful way. The bulk of the performances were the same as always, Stuani right place right time again but other than that didn't do much and Negredo doing his usual. Traore had a lot of positives though with some good crosses today. Some boneheaded mistakes as well but more good than bad in my opinion and was our only serious threat.

 

No idea what the subs were about, someone is going to tell me they were attacking moves but the whole thing looked and felt disjointed to me. If you've got Gestede coming on then get someone on to supply him, Bamford isn't that player with all due respect to him (Stuani wouldn't have been either to be fair). To be honest, Negredo should have been the one off and Stuani left on arguably cos I have more faith in him getting on the end of a chance and finishing it than Negredo right now.

 

Heard the stuff from Karanka after the game and read on here the usual suspects agreeing with every word, big surprise there of course. The atmosphere was good today and the fans were right behind the players. Fans being criticised for wanting the team to attack is ridiculous. If Karanka's intentions really weren't to play long balls (we do this as often as anyone in the league don't we, statistically I mean?) then he should feel free to explain what the plan was. We didn't bring Gestede on for his silky skills and unless there's a clause in Negredo's contract then Stuani would have been better left on as a goalscorer alongside the big man than Negredo. It felt to me that we were quite clearly going big up top (oo-er) but apparently that's not what Karanka wanted. I assume he wanted us to keep shuffling the ball out wide and throwing crosses in and hope that we connected with one. That's mostly what we did anyway really but having an actual winger on with good delivery (Downing maybe?) would have been a better bet for that than Bamford. Like I said, the thinking was disjoined and Karanka has nobody to blame but himself for that.

 

For the all the talk that this was a more attacking display I'd be willing to bet that they had more shots than us and they certainly had better chances. Did we even have more than two shots on target, I can't remember a save their keeper had to make other than from de Roon? It was a largely similar performance to most of what we get with the difference being more mistakes, us being behind for the majority of the game against a bad side and thus having to chase the game against a team that really shouldn't have been able to keep us at bay but they unfortunately they were able to do just that.

 

No idea where we go from here. Karanka's comments were pathetic and really don't hold up under any scrutiny for people prepared to actually think them through properly. He keeps changing the team and to my mind this is now effecting us at the back as we looked shaky there against Watford as well. That's the only thing we've had going for us this season so if we lose that without any improvement going the other way then we're in trouble. As it is it feels as if we're reliant on the teams below us continuing to be rubbish because we just don't look like winning games. Big week for all concerned coming up I'd say.

 

Largely agree with that. Massive week in terms of transfers, get it wrong and we're going down in my opinion.

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884]

We are a newly promoted side, it's very unusual for newly promoted teams to do well in their first season. AK isn't Brian Clough, he's doing the best that he can, but it won't be enough.

[UglyBanana 2]

I don't understand why people are turning on Karanka. Actually, I do, but I don't think people should be turning on him.

 

People say that the crowd is the 12th man in a team. If that 12th man isn't doing it's job (I appreciate that it isn't a job, per se), then the manager has every right to be upset. Just like he would be upset that Friend didn't perform as well as he could have, or Forshaw, or Espinosa, or Negredo. I'm pretty sure he wasn't blaming the fans for the loss, but when he feels that a more encouraging crowd would be helpful, why shouldn't he mention it?

 

I also agree with some of the previous comments that we would be at best still in the Championship without Karanka. Before he arrived under Mowbray, we finished 7th, 16th and 12th. Karanka came in and we finished 4th (in his first full season).

 

Also, did any of you genuinely think that this WASN'T going to happen? That we'd be happily up there in 11th or 12th with 30 odd points? If you did then you need more realistic standards. There's nothing wrong with wanting the best for Boro, but just because we're in a relegation battle doesn't mean Karanka is doing a bad job.

[Middlesborough 12]

Largely poor quality game between two poor sides littered with mistakes that lead to it being more open than most of our usual performances. Result was more than fair and indeed could have been worse if West Ham had been given the penalty they should have had almost on half time when Friend brought their lad down or Lanzini hadn't bottled his chance early in the second half. Either would have ended the game as a contest there and then.

 

We started slowly, West Ham were the better side up until we scored. Poor defending for the corner for their first and our right hand side was a weak link for us throughout. Great play from us for our goal, really nice football and for a little while it looked like we were going to take control of the game but it never happened. Second goal again coming initially down our right hand side and Carroll reacted quickest. Second half we again started slowly (is the pre-match and half time beverage Ovaltine or something?). We should have conceded again but Lanzini messed up. The game settled more into a pattern of West Ham sitting deeper and us huffing and puffing to little or no effect. Traore just about the only threat we actually had in reality. West Ham were quite content for us to shuffle the ball out wide and then swing crosses in. Only twice did we cause them any real issue, once with de Roon and once where Cresswell ended up ***ting the ball against Stuani before it hit the bar. Other than that we did nothing and didn't look likely too either. The third goal West Ham got obviously came as a result of us overcommitting forward chasing the equaliser but as I said they should have scored before that anyway.

 

Back four looked susceptible all game but the three in front of that were a big problem in my opinion as well. Espinosa looks like a back up player at best. He was all over the place at times, hopefully still just adjusting to playing here or we've wasted another signing. It was clear we had issues on our right and one of the three in midfield should have basically slotted in over there as soon as we lost the ball to cover Traore. Completely pointless having three in midfield if they aren't capable of filling holes in our lines especially when all three players are essentially defensive players or rather not attacking players in any meaningful way. The bulk of the performances were the same as always, Stuani right place right time again but other than that didn't do much and Negredo doing his usual. Traore had a lot of positives though with some good crosses today. Some boneheaded mistakes as well but more good than bad in my opinion and was our only serious threat.

 

No idea what the subs were about, someone is going to tell me they were attacking moves but the whole thing looked and felt disjointed to me. If you've got Gestede coming on then get someone on to supply him, Bamford isn't that player with all due respect to him (Stuani wouldn't have been either to be fair). To be honest, Negredo should have been the one off and Stuani left on arguably cos I have more faith in him getting on the end of a chance and finishing it than Negredo right now.

 

Heard the stuff from Karanka after the game and read on here the usual suspects agreeing with every word, big surprise there of course. The atmosphere was good today and the fans were right behind the players. Fans being criticised for wanting the team to attack is ridiculous. If Karanka's intentions really weren't to play long balls (we do this as often as anyone in the league don't we, statistically I mean?) then he should feel free to explain what the plan was. We didn't bring Gestede on for his silky skills and unless there's a clause in Negredo's contract then Stuani would have been better left on as a goalscorer alongside the big man than Negredo. It felt to me that we were quite clearly going big up top (oo-er) but apparently that's not what Karanka wanted. I assume he wanted us to keep shuffling the ball out wide and throwing crosses in and hope that we connected with one. That's mostly what we did anyway really but having an actual winger on with good delivery (Downing maybe?) would have been a better bet for that than Bamford. Like I said, the thinking was disjoined and Karanka has nobody to blame but himself for that.

 

For the all the talk that this was a more attacking display I'd be willing to bet that they had more shots than us and they certainly had better chances. Did we even have more than two shots on target, I can't remember a save their keeper had to make other than from de Roon? It was a largely similar performance to most of what we get with the difference being more mistakes, us being behind for the majority of the game against a bad side and thus having to chase the game against a team that really shouldn't have been able to keep us at bay but they unfortunately they were able to do just that.

 

No idea where we go from here. Karanka's comments were pathetic and really don't hold up under any scrutiny for people prepared to actually think them through properly. He keeps changing the team and to my mind this is now effecting us at the back as we looked shaky there against Watford as well. That's the only thing we've had going for us this season so if we lose that without any improvement going the other way then we're in trouble. As it is it feels as if we're reliant on the teams below us continuing to be rubbish because we just don't look like winning games. Big week for all concerned coming up I'd say.

 

You always find a way to put what I'm thinking into words, I struggle to be so articulate.

[34. 22]

If Karanka's intentions really weren't to play long balls (we do this as often as anyone in the league don't we, statistically I mean?)

 

I agree with a lot of your post, but just to focus on this part, we play the second most long balls in the league - https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_long_balls 

 

If that isn't intentional on Karanka's part then he should have picked up on it and instructed the players to play less of them by now.

 

This was just one part of Karanka's post-match comments that don't make sense.

[ManBearPig 1,853]

Is he doing the best he can though? We aren't progressing? We're stalling with our performances. I'm not saying he should go, but the same tactics won't work every week. The most frustrating bit is his lack of change, whilst he wastes players and burns bridges with alot of the squad in the process.

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884]

If Karanka's intentions really weren't to play long balls (we do this as often as anyone in the league don't we, statistically I mean?)

 

I agree with a lot of your post, but just to focus on this part, we play the second most long balls in the league - https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_long_balls 

 

If that isn't intentional on Karanka's part then he should have picked up on it and instructed the players to play less of them by now.

 

This was just one part of Karanka's post-match comments that don't make sense.

 

We always play long balls out of defence, it's really annoying.

[UglyBanana 2]

If Karanka's intentions really weren't to play long balls (we do this as often as anyone in the league don't we, statistically I mean?)

 

I agree with a lot of your post, but just to focus on this part, we play the second most long balls in the league - https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_long_balls 

 

If that isn't intentional on Karanka's part then he should have picked up on it and instructed the players to play less of them by now.

 

This was just one part of Karanka's post-match comments that don't make sense.

 

We always play long balls out of defence, it's really annoying.

 

Maybe Karanka knows it's annoying, that's why he was confused that the crowd wanted more long balls?

 

Just a thought.

[Betamaxman 14]

I don't understand why people are turning on Karanka. Actually, I do, but I don't think people should be turning on him.

 

People say that the crowd is the 12th man in a team. If that 12th man isn't doing it's job (I appreciate that it isn't a job, per se), then the manager has every right to be upset. Just like he would be upset that Friend didn't perform as well as he could have, or Forshaw, or Espinosa, or Negredo. I'm pretty sure he wasn't blaming the fans for the loss, but when he feels that a more encouraging crowd would be helpful, why shouldn't he mention it?

 

I also agree with some of the previous comments that we would be at best still in the Championship without Karanka. Before he arrived under Mowbray, we finished 7th, 16th and 12th. Karanka came in and we finished 4th (in his first full season).

 

Also, did any of you genuinely think that this WASN'T going to happen? That we'd be happily up there in 11th or 12th with 30 odd points? If you did then you need more realistic standards. There's nothing wrong with wanting the best for Boro, but just because we're in a relegation battle doesn't mean Karanka is doing a bad job.

 

Mate...the crowd were shouting 'Attack, attack, attack attack attack'... it's not like they were booing for goodness sake!! LOL.

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884]

Is he doing the best he can though? We aren't progressing? We're stalling with our performances. I'm not saying he should go, but the same tactics won't work every week. The most frustrating bit is his lack of change, whilst he wastes players and burns bridges with alot of the squad in the process.

 

He probably is doing the best he can, it's just that his best isn't that great. I'm pretty sure when Mowbray was manager, he too was doing his best, but he wasn't up to the job either.

 

I didn't think that we would win today, I didn't watch the match so I can't comment on it. We are pretty bad though aren't we?