The sense of entitlement on show by our supporters is pathetic

[ManBearPig 1,853]

Can't believe people are calling to break up the Ayala and Gibson partnership.

 

As a team we are now more exposed than we were under Karanka. That's just the way we play now with giving the CBs less protection.

 

Weren't people calling for this? Saying how we'd be happy to concede more goals if it meant scoring more? I did, because Karanka football was dull. I'm not saying Monks is better but it certainly has more onus on attacking.

 

Gibson and Ayala will come good. You don't just forget how to defend. What they need and the whole team in my opinion is a consistent 11 for a run of 5 games.

 

Clayton has been out of the team and he essentially was the protection in front of them. No wonder they're more exposed with him out of the team.

[Humpty 3,261]

Ayala and Gibson still start together for me when fit.

[Humpty 3,261]

I went to Ayresome Park as well as the Riverside for the record. Does that mean i am hysterical or not?

[JMC91 280]

Can't believe people are calling to break up the Ayala and Gibson partnership.

 

As a team we are now more exposed than we were under Karanka. That's just the way we play now with giving the CBs less protection.

 

Weren't people calling for this? Saying how we'd be happy to concede more goals if it meant scoring more? I did, because Karanka football was dull. I'm not saying Monks is better but it certainly has more onus on attacking.

 

Gibson and Ayala will come good. You don't just forget how to defend. What they need and the whole team in my opinion is a consistent 11 for a run of 5 games.

 

Clayton has been out of the team and he essentially was the protection in front of them. No wonder they're more exposed with him out of the team.

 

I've seen a few people suggest that our defensive errors come at the cost of a change to more attacking football under Monk, in comparison to Karanka. Maybe this is true for last season in the premier league but I really don't think that Monk's style is any more attacking than Karanka's at Championship level. It certainly hasn't felt like there's been a concerted effort to become more adventurous from what I've seen and statistically we're worse off this season under Monk in average goals scored, chances created, shots taken and forward passes than in both of Karanka's full seasons in the championship. 

 

It's possible that a change of style was the intention, which may have been the intention behind our misguided transfer policy of stockpiling strikers, but I don't think that's shown on the pitch. I'm not saying we were playing total football under Karanka but I think the woeful stuff we watched last season has clouded the memory of how we played in the championship under Karanka, which at times was good to watch, particularly in the playoff season. Like you I was willing for the trade off of more attractive football at the cost of shipping a few more at the other end but I don't think we've got that and it shouldn't be used as a defence of Monk's defensive shortcomings. For me we're just worse off all round now, style-wise and obviously results

[Snowblind 1,734]

I went to Ayresome Park as well as the Riverside for the record. Does that mean i am hysterical or not?

 

I did too. Earliest memories are of the later stages of the Lennie Lawrence era, so I only ever remember us being in the top 2 divisions. Even now the idea of us ever dropping below those seems unfathomable to me...

 

When you consider that my daughter's earliest memories of Boro are of the UEFA Cup run, it's no wonder relegation was such a shock to the system for fans of that age/generation. I think we're all a bit older than that here though like...

 

On the defence/attack thing, I've always been one for believing that all good systems start from a sturdy backline and spine of the team. Good football can only be built upon that sort of foundation for me. Currently, we're struggling on both counts of a solid defence and spine - but I do believe we have he players to realise that.

[SouthernSmoggie 4,242]

Can't believe people are calling to break up the Ayala and Gibson partnership.

 

As a team we are now more exposed than we were under Karanka. That's just the way we play now with giving the CBs less protection.

 

Weren't people calling for this? Saying how we'd be happy to concede more goals if it meant scoring more? I did, because Karanka football was dull. I'm not saying Monks is better but it certainly has more onus on attacking.

 

Gibson and Ayala will come good. You don't just forget how to defend. What they need and the whole team in my opinion is a consistent 11 for a run of 5 games.

 

Clayton has been out of the team and he essentially was the protection in front of them. No wonder they're more exposed with him out of the team.

 

The problem is we aren't really scoring... we have scored the lowest amount in the top 10. And less than a fair few lower half teams too.

[Randy Sandwich 209]

Venables and Karanka threw men behind the ball and hoped for a bit of luck at the other end in the earlier days in their reign. Their only goal was to steer the club clear of a relegation battle, so their approached worked well when needed and provided a basis to build on going forward.

 

If you're looking for historical examples, look at a Alex Ferguson's early career at United. He was nearly fired 2/3 times because the results weren't there, the football wasn't to United's standard blah, blah, blah. The board were patient, they let him learn from his mistakes and they flourished because of it.

 

No, I'm not saying Monk is Fergie quality. In the same way I doubt any of you are saying he's Terry Venables quality. But remember the Braithwaite interview when he was on international duty? It's taken a while for the lads to fully understand what Monk wanted from them - but Braithwaite said they've started to, and it's begun paying dividends on the training ground. Goal aside, the first 45 against Derby were the best we've seen this season.

 

Gibson is a fantastic chairman. He's not like other in football who will cave in to the managerial Merry-go-round, and we should be proud of that. The money is immaterial. The league table in November is immaterial. Even to an extent - and I know many may not agree - performances are immaterial. Results and the league table after 46 games is what's important. We're still in contention, despite the patchy performances we've seen.

 

Am I entirely happy with the football on display? No. Do I think Monk has been perfect with his transfers, selections and tactics? No. Do I think there's a better, readily available option out there? No.

 

Do I think the best thing for the club is to sack the manager when we're 7th in the table and a new boss would need bedding in time to get his own system across, just before Christmas? Absolutely not.

 

I completely agree with this and will add that the riverside crowd  has become a very very different crowd to the crowds who delighted in Uve Fuchs, jan åge fjørtoft, Craig Hignett and Jaime Moreno to then be left jaw dropped by the Brian Robson then Steve Mclaren eras. A new state of the art  stadium only a few years after seeing the beloved Ayresome Park gates locked, signings like Juninhio and Ravanelli - these were unnatural times for Boro fans, something the like of they'd never seen. The club looked at families and youth to make the club appealing to them and bring more support to the club, however this new generation of fans were born into this, the speedy success of Robson, the epic roller coaster ride under Mclaren - this is all they know and have been wanting it back ever since (like we all would) but I do feel I'm surrounded by fans who mirror Man U and Liverpool with their level of expectancy,  more like spoilt petulant kids than passionate supporters but is it their fault? 

They get promises made, we were supposed to give the prem a "right go" then we were going to "smash the championship" and the fans hung on to these words as if they were written in stone. I do feel that the majority of fans have a huge sense of entitlement, but I think that could be said about a lot of clubs these days, the new fans are asked to pay a lot of money, (I used to go in the boys end which I think was about 50p before progressing to the Holgate where we managed to sneak in for free most of the time) so I look at the ticket prices and the cost of game day and can understand why when spending that much to be entertained  you are unhappy when you don't get what it said on the tin.

So yes, we do have some fans who expect more and even demand it, yes we have fans who were (like me) buying the Gazette as soon as it was printed to see if we still had a club to support, hitching to Hartlepool for the first game of the season but due to no fault of their own we have fans whose first game was watching Rav get a hat trick in the shiny new Cellnet stadium. 

It does pain me, I don't go to many home games now as the fans ruin it for me - the south stand at least has some passion and true support for the club - I suppose being part of the Ayresome roar, where we would sing our team back into a game, where the banter was great and at times scary -  gives me a different background to my opinions - it might be rose coloured glasses but I don't remember a Boro player being booed while he was playing in those days and its the booing, the bitching and lack of what I feel is "support" which makes the Riverside feel almost "toxic" rather than our home.

A prime example was a woman who sat behind me, she moaned from the first minute, her son of about 7 mirrored her but shouted it at the top of his voice the whoile 90 minutes, much to the amusement of the nearby 'fans'. That just about summed up the evolution of the fans in our stadium to me - at his age we sang and shouted Boro songs, we were all huddled together  - we were part of something, something that really doesn't seem to exist at home games anymore.  

Has a large part of the crowd become parents who take their kids there like we used to take them to the baths or the beach? Are they there more to occupy the kids on a Sat than to truly support our club?

Has the old old song that we would always sing to visiting fans done a full u-turn and is one to be sang to our fans now "sing when your winning, you only sing when you're winning"? 

How about "Moan for the 90, you always moan for the 90"?

 

Maybe some of the moaners did actually go to Ayresome park, everyone has this glowy eyed nostalgia that everything was better in their day.

 

I've been in the old South stand at Ayresome park where certain Boro players were getting barracked for 90 minutes.

I've seen the Holgate so empty that groups of kids were having a kick about in it. I've seen blokes getting their heads kicked in outside the ground and fighting inside the ground.

 

Things were not always better in the good old days, my dad said that the old blokes in the 60s were the same calling Best, Law and Charlton overrated and calling the Beatles crap. :)

 

I'm trying to figure out how after reading my post you think I was basically saying it was better in the old days - I was saying it was worse in the old days and maybe thats why people like me don't feel like that and appreciate and get behind the team differently.  I just think that the modern day fan does feel a sense of entitlement and was trying to convey my opinions as to why they might.

 

I've just re-read your post and even the second time it still sounds like a dig at the modern fan.

 

It was a dig at the modern fan -isn't that the title of the post? Although I did ask the question whether it is their fault? Theres a difference between a dig at the modern fan and explaining why I see it that way and it "been better in the old days" though.

For people like me the modern fan is spoiling the experience for me personally, I guess its similar for someone else because I didn't start the thread - the good thing is the "modern fan" hasn't realised we are allowed at away matches so I'm safe to enjoy myself there.

[Duvel 2,446]

 

I completely agree with this and will add that the riverside crowd  has become a very very different crowd to the crowds who delighted in Uve Fuchs, jan åge fjørtoft, Craig Hignett and Jaime Moreno to then be left jaw dropped by the Brian Robson then Steve Mclaren eras. A new state of the art  stadium only a few years after seeing the beloved Ayresome Park gates locked, signings like Juninhio and Ravanelli - these were unnatural times for Boro fans, something the like of they'd never seen. The club looked at families and youth to make the club appealing to them and bring more support to the club, however this new generation of fans were born into this, the speedy success of Robson, the epic roller coaster ride under Mclaren - this is all they know and have been wanting it back ever since (like we all would) but I do feel I'm surrounded by fans who mirror Man U and Liverpool with their level of expectancy,  more like spoilt petulant kids than passionate supporters but is it their fault? 

They get promises made, we were supposed to give the prem a "right go" then we were going to "smash the championship" and the fans hung on to these words as if they were written in stone. I do feel that the majority of fans have a huge sense of entitlement, but I think that could be said about a lot of clubs these days, the new fans are asked to pay a lot of money, (I used to go in the boys end which I think was about 50p before progressing to the Holgate where we managed to sneak in for free most of the time) so I look at the ticket prices and the cost of game day and can understand why when spending that much to be entertained  you are unhappy when you don't get what it said on the tin.

So yes, we do have some fans who expect more and even demand it, yes we have fans who were (like me) buying the Gazette as soon as it was printed to see if we still had a club to support, hitching to Hartlepool for the first game of the season but due to no fault of their own we have fans whose first game was watching Rav get a hat trick in the shiny new Cellnet stadium. 

It does pain me, I don't go to many home games now as the fans ruin it for me - the south stand at least has some passion and true support for the club - I suppose being part of the Ayresome roar, where we would sing our team back into a game, where the banter was great and at times scary -  gives me a different background to my opinions - it might be rose coloured glasses but I don't remember a Boro player being booed while he was playing in those days and its the booing, the bitching and lack of what I feel is "support" which makes the Riverside feel almost "toxic" rather than our home.

A prime example was a woman who sat behind me, she moaned from the first minute, her son of about 7 mirrored her but shouted it at the top of his voice the whoile 90 minutes, much to the amusement of the nearby 'fans'. That just about summed up the evolution of the fans in our stadium to me - at his age we sang and shouted Boro songs, we were all huddled together  - we were part of something, something that really doesn't seem to exist at home games anymore.  

Has a large part of the crowd become parents who take their kids there like we used to take them to the baths or the beach? Are they there more to occupy the kids on a Sat than to truly support our club?

Has the old old song that we would always sing to visiting fans done a full u-turn and is one to be sang to our fans now "sing when your winning, you only sing when you're winning"? 

How about "Moan for the 90, you always moan for the 90"?

 

Maybe some of the moaners did actually go to Ayresome park, everyone has this glowy eyed nostalgia that everything was better in their day.

 

I've been in the old South stand at Ayresome park where certain Boro players were getting barracked for 90 minutes.

I've seen the Holgate so empty that groups of kids were having a kick about in it. I've seen blokes getting their heads kicked in outside the ground and fighting inside the ground.

 

Things were not always better in the good old days, my dad said that the old blokes in the 60s were the same calling Best, Law and Charlton overrated and calling the Beatles crap. :)

 

I'm trying to figure out how after reading my post you think I was basically saying it was better in the old days - I was saying it was worse in the old days and maybe thats why people like me don't feel like that and appreciate and get behind the team differently.  I just think that the modern day fan does feel a sense of entitlement and was trying to convey my opinions as to why they might.

 

I've just re-read your post and even the second time it still sounds like a dig at the modern fan.

 

It was a dig at the modern fan -isn't that the title of the post? Although I did ask the question whether it is their fault? Theres a difference between a dig at the modern fan and explaining why I see it that way and it "been better in the old days" though.

For people like me the modern fan is spoiling the experience for me personally, I guess its similar for someone else because I didn't start the thread - the good thing is the "modern fan" hasn't realised we are allowed at away matches so I'm safe to enjoy myself there.

 

Fair enough, if I had to have a grumble about the modern game the fans would be a long way down my list.

 

I am losing interest with watching top level football nowadays it's just 90 minutes of non-stop cheating. The annoying thing is it could be stamped out within a season with retrospective bans.

 

I also hate how much influence money has the game. Basically the rich teams win and everyone is making up the numbers. For us it feels like the best we can ever hope for is to get promoted and have a decade of mid table football, it's depressing.

 

I watch the NFL where they have a salary cap and draft system where everyone gets a fair chance to compete. Football could learn a lot from American sports in my opinion.

 

I can understand your complaint but, i still don't think the modern fam is that much different from years ago. As for the away games i actually think they've got worse in recent times, the home support at the Riverside is better than the majority of away games for me. Away games are just a big drinking session now, I've been to a few this season where some fans barely leave the concourse.

[Randy Sandwich 209]

 

 

It was a dig at the modern fan -isn't that the title of the post? Although I did ask the question whether it is their fault? Theres a difference between a dig at the modern fan and explaining why I see it that way and it "been better in the old days" though.

For people like me the modern fan is spoiling the experience for me personally, I guess its similar for someone else because I didn't start the thread - the good thing is the "modern fan" hasn't realised we are allowed at away matches so I'm safe to enjoy myself there.

 

Fair enough, if I had to have a grumble about the modern game the fans would be a long way down my list.

 

I am losing interest with watching top level football nowadays it's just 90 minutes of non-stop cheating. The annoying thing is it could be stamped out within a season with retrospective bans.

 

I also hate how much influence money has the game. Basically the rich teams win and everyone is making up the numbers. For us it feels like the best we can ever hope for is to get promoted and have a decade of mid table football, it's depressing.  

 

I watch the NFL where they have a salary cap and draft system where everyone gets a fair chance to compete. Football could learn a lot from American sports in my opinion.

 

I can understand your complaint but, i still don't think the modern fam is that much different from years ago. As for the away games i actually think they've got worse in recent times, the home support at the Riverside is better than the majority of away games for me. Away games are just a big drinking session now, I've been to a few this season where some fans barely leave the concourse.

 

Beleive me - 30 years ago I didn't have to sit through a football match with some woman and her 7 year old child moaning and screaming at the team non stop for 90 mins in my ear, the modern day fans do have more of an entitlement air about them because as I said they were lured as fans when we had rav and juninhio. 

They didn't go through the turmoil of almost losing our club, standing in an empty stand and yes - watching people get their heads stoved in - so in my book they are less appreciative of what we have now - in fact they're spoiled rotten.

Thats more the flow of what I was saying, if I got carried away then I will put it down to being a tad frustrated. I've enjoyed my away day experiences way more than the home, horses for courses I guess.

As for the actual modern game itself I'm inclined to agree with you - but this thread is about fans having an air of entitlement - its not number 1 on my list of things to be fed up about but its the topic of the thread and I have a view on it.

[Essuuaitch 330]

regarding the title of the thread  ,  maybe the answer or explanation to it is right in front of our eyes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Social Media ,

[Duvel 2,446]

 

 

It was a dig at the modern fan -isn't that the title of the post? Although I did ask the question whether it is their fault? Theres a difference between a dig at the modern fan and explaining why I see it that way and it "been better in the old days" though.

For people like me the modern fan is spoiling the experience for me personally, I guess its similar for someone else because I didn't start the thread - the good thing is the "modern fan" hasn't realised we are allowed at away matches so I'm safe to enjoy myself there.

 

Fair enough, if I had to have a grumble about the modern game the fans would be a long way down my list.

 

I am losing interest with watching top level football nowadays it's just 90 minutes of non-stop cheating. The annoying thing is it could be stamped out within a season with retrospective bans.

 

I also hate how much influence money has the game. Basically the rich teams win and everyone is making up the numbers. For us it feels like the best we can ever hope for is to get promoted and have a decade of mid table football, it's depressing.  

 

I watch the NFL where they have a salary cap and draft system where everyone gets a fair chance to compete. Football could learn a lot from American sports in my opinion.

 

I can understand your complaint but, i still don't think the modern fam is that much different from years ago. As for the away games i actually think they've got worse in recent times, the home support at the Riverside is better than the majority of away games for me. Away games are just a big drinking session now, I've been to a few this season where some fans barely leave the concourse.

 

Beleive me - 30 years ago I didn't have to sit through a football match with some woman and her 7 year old child moaning and screaming at the team non stop for 90 mins in my ear, the modern day fans do have more of an entitlement air about them because as I said they were lured as fans when we had rav and juninhio. 

They didn't go through the turmoil of almost losing our club, standing in an empty stand and yes - watching people get their heads stoved in - so in my book they are less appreciative of what we have now - in fact they're spoiled rotten.

Thats more the flow of what I was saying, if I got carried away then I will put it down to being a tad frustrated. I've enjoyed my away day experiences way more than the home, horses for courses I guess.

As for the actual modern game itself I'm inclined to agree with you - but this thread is about fans having an air of entitlement - its not number 1 on my list of things to be fed up about but its the topic of the thread and I have a view on it.

 

Ok fair enough, I can't really disagree with most of what you are saying. I guess we are looking at things from different angles. You are talking about the match day experience and I was initially thinking that the thread was about the Monk criticism.

 

I think you have a point about our fans being spoilt, some people started following us in the Juninho era and probably expected it to always be like that. I think we do have some older fans (myself included) who've saw the good and bad of Ayresome park and the Riverside. A lot of us are unhappy with Monk and expect a lot more. That was my point to the OP, the unhappy people at the moment are not all spoilt kids.

[Randy Sandwich 209]

 

 

It was a dig at the modern fan -isn't that the title of the post? Although I did ask the question whether it is their fault? Theres a difference between a dig at the modern fan and explaining why I see it that way and it "been better in the old days" though.

For people like me the modern fan is spoiling the experience for me personally, I guess its similar for someone else because I didn't start the thread - the good thing is the "modern fan" hasn't realised we are allowed at away matches so I'm safe to enjoy myself there.

 

Fair enough, if I had to have a grumble about the modern game the fans would be a long way down my list.

 

I am losing interest with watching top level football nowadays it's just 90 minutes of non-stop cheating. The annoying thing is it could be stamped out within a season with retrospective bans.

 

I also hate how much influence money has the game. Basically the rich teams win and everyone is making up the numbers. For us it feels like the best we can ever hope for is to get promoted and have a decade of mid table football, it's depressing.  

 

I watch the NFL where they have a salary cap and draft system where everyone gets a fair chance to compete. Football could learn a lot from American sports in my opinion.

 

I can understand your complaint but, i still don't think the modern fam is that much different from years ago. As for the away games i actually think they've got worse in recent times, the home support at the Riverside is better than the majority of away games for me. Away games are just a big drinking session now, I've been to a few this season where some fans barely leave the concourse.

 

Beleive me - 30 years ago I didn't have to sit through a football match with some woman and her 7 year old child moaning and screaming at the team non stop for 90 mins in my ear, the modern day fans do have more of an entitlement air about them because as I said they were lured as fans when we had rav and juninhio. 

They didn't go through the turmoil of almost losing our club, standing in an empty stand and yes - watching people get their heads stoved in - so in my book they are less appreciative of what we have now - in fact they're spoiled rotten.

Thats more the flow of what I was saying, if I got carried away then I will put it down to being a tad frustrated. I've enjoyed my away day experiences way more than the home, horses for courses I guess.

As for the actual modern game itself I'm inclined to agree with you - but this thread is about fans having an air of entitlement - its not number 1 on my list of things to be fed up about but its the topic of the thread and I have a view on it.

 

Ok fair enough, I can't really disagree with most of what you are saying. I guess we are looking at things from different angles. You are talking about the match day experience and I was initially thinking that the thread was about the Monk criticism.

 

I think you have a point about our fans being spoilt, some people started following us in the Juninho era and probably expected it to always be like that. I think we do have some older fans (myself included) who've saw the good and bad of Ayresome park and the Riverside. A lot of us are unhappy with Monk and expect a lot more. That was my point to the OP, the unhappy people at the moment are not all spoilt kids.

I think every fan has the right to be unhappy at the moment, but I do believe thats as much the clubs fault, huge promises made the last two seasons, ticket prices to match that "ambition" - great if it comes to fruition but lets face it "smash the league" is now looking as embarrassing and meaningless as "we are here to give it a right go" the season before.

It all stems from the top for me, I don't see the same halo over Stevie Gibson as everyone else - I think at times his promises have too coincidentally came out at the same time theres been season ticket pushes and were thought out more to sell season tickets than to encompass are vision for the coming season. I think Monk hasn't had enough time, Karanka was given a three year plan to achieve promotion - Monk has been given one season with a relegated side (battered from pillar to post) with the pressure of "smashing it" let alone just acheive it and yes the cash required was there - but come on, those purchases were partly financed by sales etc. and he had to spend some of those millions we got for going up then down so I'm hardly envisioning Steve cashing his pension it to keep his word.

I firmly still believe we can go up, I'd like to see the riverside become more of a fortress with objections from the fans being left until full time and giving our boys a "twelfth man" - I think we are more or less on the same page - after last season I was looking forward to actually enjoying going to the games again so maybe thats my fault for raising my expectations too much.

[Humpty 3,261]

That element of support have lived through the dire Championship years as well though so how does that fit with your theory?

[Randy Sandwich 209]

That element of support have lived through the dire Championship years as well though so how does that fit with your theory?

 

I don't know what your point is - so my opinions are now theories? 

Let me guess - you have spoke to every single person you've just mentioned and they all disagree with me therefore rendering my opinion, formed from my own personal experiences and views from my perspective completely invalid and wrong?

[Duvel 2,446]

That element of support have lived through the dire Championship years as well though so how does that fit with your theory?

 

Some have lived through it, another 15k deserted the club during that time!