The sense of entitlement on show by our supporters is pathetic

[Duvel 2,446]

 

 

It was a dig at the modern fan -isn't that the title of the post? Although I did ask the question whether it is their fault? Theres a difference between a dig at the modern fan and explaining why I see it that way and it "been better in the old days" though.

For people like me the modern fan is spoiling the experience for me personally, I guess its similar for someone else because I didn't start the thread - the good thing is the "modern fan" hasn't realised we are allowed at away matches so I'm safe to enjoy myself there.

 

Fair enough, if I had to have a grumble about the modern game the fans would be a long way down my list.

 

I am losing interest with watching top level football nowadays it's just 90 minutes of non-stop cheating. The annoying thing is it could be stamped out within a season with retrospective bans.

 

I also hate how much influence money has the game. Basically the rich teams win and everyone is making up the numbers. For us it feels like the best we can ever hope for is to get promoted and have a decade of mid table football, it's depressing.  

 

I watch the NFL where they have a salary cap and draft system where everyone gets a fair chance to compete. Football could learn a lot from American sports in my opinion.

 

I can understand your complaint but, i still don't think the modern fam is that much different from years ago. As for the away games i actually think they've got worse in recent times, the home support at the Riverside is better than the majority of away games for me. Away games are just a big drinking session now, I've been to a few this season where some fans barely leave the concourse.

 

Beleive me - 30 years ago I didn't have to sit through a football match with some woman and her 7 year old child moaning and screaming at the team non stop for 90 mins in my ear, the modern day fans do have more of an entitlement air about them because as I said they were lured as fans when we had rav and juninhio. 

They didn't go through the turmoil of almost losing our club, standing in an empty stand and yes - watching people get their heads stoved in - so in my book they are less appreciative of what we have now - in fact they're spoiled rotten.

Thats more the flow of what I was saying, if I got carried away then I will put it down to being a tad frustrated. I've enjoyed my away day experiences way more than the home, horses for courses I guess.

As for the actual modern game itself I'm inclined to agree with you - but this thread is about fans having an air of entitlement - its not number 1 on my list of things to be fed up about but its the topic of the thread and I have a view on it.

 

Ok fair enough, I can't really disagree with most of what you are saying. I guess we are looking at things from different angles. You are talking about the match day experience and I was initially thinking that the thread was about the Monk criticism.

 

I think you have a point about our fans being spoilt, some people started following us in the Juninho era and probably expected it to always be like that. I think we do have some older fans (myself included) who've saw the good and bad of Ayresome park and the Riverside. A lot of us are unhappy with Monk and expect a lot more. That was my point to the OP, the unhappy people at the moment are not all spoilt kids.

I think every fan has the right to be unhappy at the moment, but I do believe thats as much the clubs fault, huge promises made the last two seasons, ticket prices to match that "ambition" - great if it comes to fruition but lets face it "smash the league" is now looking as embarrassing and meaningless as "we are here to give it a right go" the season before.

It all stems from the top for me, I don't see the same halo over Stevie Gibson as everyone else - I think at times his promises have too coincidentally came out at the same time theres been season ticket pushes and were thought out more to sell season tickets than to encompass are vision for the coming season. I think Monk hasn't had enough time, Karanka was given a three year plan to achieve promotion - Monk has been given one season with a relegated side (battered from pillar to post) with the pressure of "smashing it" let alone just acheive it and yes the cash required was there - but come on, those purchases were partly financed by sales etc. and he had to spend some of those millions we got for going up then down so I'm hardly envisioning Steve cashing his pension it to keep his word.

I firmly still believe we can go up, I'd like to see the riverside become more of a fortress with objections from the fans being left until full time and giving our boys a "twelfth man" - I think we are more or less on the same page - after last season I was looking forward to actually enjoying going to the games again so maybe thats my fault for raising my expectations too much.

 

I agree with you about Steve Gibson, the thing I'm not sure I agree with is the support. Ok you've experienced negative fans but on the whole I think the support has been great this season. The majority of the fans have been very patient considering what we are watching on the pitch.

[Humpty 3,261]

That element of support have lived through the dire Championship years as well though so how does that fit with your theory?

 

I don't know what your point is - so my opinions are now theories? 

Let me guess - you have spoke to every single person you've just mentioned and they all disagree with me therefore rendering my opinion, formed from my own personal experiences and views from my perspective completely invalid and wrong?

 

You mean in the same way you've branded thousands and thousands of people as entitled without having any idea of their background, views or approach to following football?

[Randy Sandwich 209]

That element of support have lived through the dire Championship years as well though so how does that fit with your theory?

 

Some have lived through it, another 15k deserted the club during that time!

 

I wonder how many of those 15k are the ones who were moaning from start to finish and booing while our players are trying to play  -  the booing of Johnny Howson whilst he actually set up a goal for me is just unforgivable.

[Randy Sandwich 209]

That element of support have lived through the dire Championship years as well though so how does that fit with your theory?

 

I don't know what your point is - so my opinions are now theories? 

Let me guess - you have spoke to every single person you've just mentioned and they all disagree with me therefore rendering my opinion, formed from my own personal experiences and views from my perspective completely invalid and wrong?

 

You mean in the same way you've branded thousands and thousands of people as entitled without having any idea of their background, views or approach to following football?

 

If you see one child out of thirty behaving like a spoiled brat do you need to know his background, views or approach to life to know they are spoiled?  So do I now need a full background check and questionnaire filled in by every person I come across so I am then allowed to have an opinion on the behavior they are showing rather than judging their behavior on their behavior?

I assume you have ran the same check on me then before giving your opinion on my opinion then and every other person on here you go around correcting?

I just love when opinionated people ask other people to justify having an opinion yet go unchecked themselves.

Heres an example;- I think synchronized swimming is absolute garbage based on what I have seen which is very little. I could start a thread and debate this, someone might give me information which will make my opinion change or it may not - regardless of what information I have at hand I can still have an opinion and its not for you to police it - its simply my opinion, which can change at any time and as many times as I choose to change it, you can debate it with me by all means - but you don't do that do you? You just ask some question which is worded with the implication that I am wrong, theres no debate, nothing added information wise - its just you and your self righteous approach that you know best and theres no need to even debate one point I made.

[Humpty 3,261]

I think you need to chill Randy. Maybe have a cold shower?

 

I haven't questioned your opinion. I've queried the basis for it which you've made it. You've essentially sat near a few people that have had a moan and came to the assumption that they're all self-entitled.

 

Did you think the chicken run regulars at Ayresome were self entitled?

[Randy Sandwich 209]

I think you need to chill Randy. Maybe have a cold shower?

 

I haven't questioned your opinion. I've queried the basis for it which you've made it. You've essentially sat near a few people that have had a moan and came to the assumption that they're all self-entitled.

 

Did you think the chicken run regulars at Ayresome were self entitled?

 

I'm chilled to bits thanks - Thats my other fav too, the "oh you are angry and need to calm down" the most over used and ineffective attitude on the internet when you aren't getting it your own way. 

I'm having a lovely day off, the pups are reveling in the snow, tea is on and the house is lovely and warm - a cold shower isn't what I need.

 

So are you telling me how many different seats I've sat in at the riverside - or are you asking me? Because I must have missed your "query.

Let me guess - you assumed I've only sat in the same seat and listened to the same drivel week in week out from a minority- yes? 

Do you think I bought a season ticket based on the prices and the dross we were served last season or do you think I might, just might go on a game to game basis, then when doing so thought "I'm not sitting there next time" - if thats the case then you might find I've sat in every part of the ground except the away end and I actually think I am therefore in a pretty decent position to hear the majority rather than a minority of fans.

You've made some wrong assumptions there whilst formulating your opinion - maybe if you actually debated you would learn a bit more about your peers and we would learn more about you.

[Duvel 2,446]

I think you need to chill Randy. Maybe have a cold shower?

 

I haven't questioned your opinion. I've queried the basis for it which you've made it. You've essentially sat near a few people that have had a moan and came to the assumption that they're all self-entitled.

 

Did you think the chicken run regulars at Ayresome were self entitled?

 

I'm chilled to bits thanks - Thats my other fav too, the "oh you are angry and need to calm down" the most over used and ineffective attitude on the internet when you aren't getting it your own way. 

I'm having a lovely day off, the pups are reveling in the snow, tea is on and the house is lovely and warm - a cold shower isn't what I need.

 

So are you telling me how many different seats I've sat in at the riverside - or are you asking me? Because I must have missed your "query.

Let me guess - you assumed I've only sat in the same seat and listened to the same drivel week in week out from a minority- yes? 

Do you think I bought a season ticket based on the prices and the dross we were served last season or do you think I might, just might go on a game to game basis, then when doing so thought "I'm not sitting there next time" - if thats the case then you might find I've sat in every part of the ground except the away end and I actually think I am therefore in a pretty decent position to hear the majority rather than a minority of fans.

You've made some wrong assumptions there whilst formulating your opinion - maybe if you actually debated you would learn a bit more about your peers and we would learn more about you.

 

So we've got a handful of morons supporting the club, hasn't that always been the case? As Humpty said the old South stand at Ayresome was notorious for critical fans.

 

I've been to every home game this season and I think the fans have been good on the whole.

[Randy Sandwich 209]

I think you need to chill Randy. Maybe have a cold shower?

 

I haven't questioned your opinion. I've queried the basis for it which you've made it. You've essentially sat near a few people that have had a moan and came to the assumption that they're all self-entitled.

 

Did you think the chicken run regulars at Ayresome were self entitled?

 

I'm chilled to bits thanks - Thats my other fav too, the "oh you are angry and need to calm down" the most over used and ineffective attitude on the internet when you aren't getting it your own way. 

I'm having a lovely day off, the pups are reveling in the snow, tea is on and the house is lovely and warm - a cold shower isn't what I need.

 

So are you telling me how many different seats I've sat in at the riverside - or are you asking me? Because I must have missed your "query.

Let me guess - you assumed I've only sat in the same seat and listened to the same drivel week in week out from a minority- yes? 

Do you think I bought a season ticket based on the prices and the dross we were served last season or do you think I might, just might go on a game to game basis, then when doing so thought "I'm not sitting there next time" - if thats the case then you might find I've sat in every part of the ground except the away end and I actually think I am therefore in a pretty decent position to hear the majority rather than a minority of fans.

You've made some wrong assumptions there whilst formulating your opinion - maybe if you actually debated you would learn a bit more about your peers and we would learn more about you.

 

So we've got a handful of morons supporting the club, hasn't that always been the case? As Humpty said the old South stand at Ayresome was notorious for critical fans.

 

I've been to every home game this season and I think the fans have been good on the whole.

But haven't I re iterated all the way through that I can only give an opinion based on my experiences and after all it is only an opinion, I wish then I had the match day experiences you have - as for a handful of morons I've never said that. I thought I explained pretty well in my essay why I feel that sense of entitlement was there.

But there will always be a handful of morons at any club, that in my view is a seperate issue and not really the line I thought the thread was going - unless you are suggesting the ones who behave "entitled" are morons?

[Humpty 3,261]

I still don't know what the basis is for your opinion Randy Grandad.

 

Peace.

 

(Unfortunately i don't time to fully engage you as i have to work. Benefits of retirement i suppose)

[Duvel 2,446]

I think you need to chill Randy. Maybe have a cold shower?

 

I haven't questioned your opinion. I've queried the basis for it which you've made it. You've essentially sat near a few people that have had a moan and came to the assumption that they're all self-entitled.

 

Did you think the chicken run regulars at Ayresome were self entitled?

 

I'm chilled to bits thanks - Thats my other fav too, the "oh you are angry and need to calm down" the most over used and ineffective attitude on the internet when you aren't getting it your own way. 

I'm having a lovely day off, the pups are reveling in the snow, tea is on and the house is lovely and warm - a cold shower isn't what I need.

 

So are you telling me how many different seats I've sat in at the riverside - or are you asking me? Because I must have missed your "query.

Let me guess - you assumed I've only sat in the same seat and listened to the same drivel week in week out from a minority- yes? 

Do you think I bought a season ticket based on the prices and the dross we were served last season or do you think I might, just might go on a game to game basis, then when doing so thought "I'm not sitting there next time" - if thats the case then you might find I've sat in every part of the ground except the away end and I actually think I am therefore in a pretty decent position to hear the majority rather than a minority of fans.

You've made some wrong assumptions there whilst formulating your opinion - maybe if you actually debated you would learn a bit more about your peers and we would learn more about you.

 

So we've got a handful of morons supporting the club, hasn't that always been the case? As Humpty said the old South stand at Ayresome was notorious for critical fans.

 

I've been to every home game this season and I think the fans have been good on the whole.

But haven't I re iterated all the way through that I can only give an opinion based on my experiences and after all it is only an opinion, I wish then I had the match day experiences you have - as for a handful of morons I've never said that. I thought I explained pretty well in my essay why I feel that sense of entitlement was there.

But there will always be a handful of morons at any club, that in my view is a seperate issue and not really the line I thought the thread was going - unless you are suggesting the ones who behave "entitled" are morons?

 

Ok so you've had a different experience to me at the match, fair enough.

 

There's not much to add to the discussion then.

[Will 2,958]

I still don't know what the basis is for your opinion Randy Grandad.

 

Peace.

 

(Unfortunately i don't time to fully engage you as i have to work. Benefits of retirement i suppose)

 

Humpty casually creating oddly specific porn titles...

[Randy Sandwich 209]

I still don't know what the basis is for your opinion Randy Grandad.

 

Peace.

 

(Unfortunately i don't time to fully engage you as i have to work. Benefits of retirement i suppose)

 

 I genuinely don't know what your point has been since you first engaged my post, I don't even know what your "Randy Grandad" point is - we clearly communicate on a different level.

When you actually talk about football you are worth the read - my advice is to stick to that

[Randy Sandwich 209]

 

Fair enough, if I had to have a grumble about the modern game the fans would be a long way down my list.

 

I am losing interest with watching top level football nowadays it's just 90 minutes of non-stop cheating. The annoying thing is it could be stamped out within a season with retrospective bans.

 

I also hate how much influence money has the game. Basically the rich teams win and everyone is making up the numbers. For us it feels like the best we can ever hope for is to get promoted and have a decade of mid table football, it's depressing.  

 

I watch the NFL where they have a salary cap and draft system where everyone gets a fair chance to compete. Football could learn a lot from American sports in my opinion.

 

I can understand your complaint but, i still don't think the modern fam is that much different from years ago. As for the away games i actually think they've got worse in recent times, the home support at the Riverside is better than the majority of away games for me. Away games are just a big drinking session now, I've been to a few this season where some fans barely leave the concourse.

 

Beleive me - 30 years ago I didn't have to sit through a football match with some woman and her 7 year old child moaning and screaming at the team non stop for 90 mins in my ear, the modern day fans do have more of an entitlement air about them because as I said they were lured as fans when we had rav and juninhio. 

They didn't go through the turmoil of almost losing our club, standing in an empty stand and yes - watching people get their heads stoved in - so in my book they are less appreciative of what we have now - in fact they're spoiled rotten.

Thats more the flow of what I was saying, if I got carried away then I will put it down to being a tad frustrated. I've enjoyed my away day experiences way more than the home, horses for courses I guess.

As for the actual modern game itself I'm inclined to agree with you - but this thread is about fans having an air of entitlement - its not number 1 on my list of things to be fed up about but its the topic of the thread and I have a view on it.

 

Ok fair enough, I can't really disagree with most of what you are saying. I guess we are looking at things from different angles. You are talking about the match day experience and I was initially thinking that the thread was about the Monk criticism.

 

I think you have a point about our fans being spoilt, some people started following us in the Juninho era and probably expected it to always be like that. I think we do have some older fans (myself included) who've saw the good and bad of Ayresome park and the Riverside. A lot of us are unhappy with Monk and expect a lot more. That was my point to the OP, the unhappy people at the moment are not all spoilt kids.

I think every fan has the right to be unhappy at the moment, but I do believe thats as much the clubs fault, huge promises made the last two seasons, ticket prices to match that "ambition" - great if it comes to fruition but lets face it "smash the league" is now looking as embarrassing and meaningless as "we are here to give it a right go" the season before.

It all stems from the top for me, I don't see the same halo over Stevie Gibson as everyone else - I think at times his promises have too coincidentally came out at the same time theres been season ticket pushes and were thought out more to sell season tickets than to encompass are vision for the coming season. I think Monk hasn't had enough time, Karanka was given a three year plan to achieve promotion - Monk has been given one season with a relegated side (battered from pillar to post) with the pressure of "smashing it" let alone just acheive it and yes the cash required was there - but come on, those purchases were partly financed by sales etc. and he had to spend some of those millions we got for going up then down so I'm hardly envisioning Steve cashing his pension it to keep his word.

I firmly still believe we can go up, I'd like to see the riverside become more of a fortress with objections from the fans being left until full time and giving our boys a "twelfth man" - I think we are more or less on the same page - after last season I was looking forward to actually enjoying going to the games again so maybe thats my fault for raising my expectations too much.

 

I agree with you about Steve Gibson, the thing I'm not sure I agree with is the support. Ok you've experienced negative fans but on the whole I think the support has been great this season. The majority of the fans have been very patient considering what we are watching on the pitch.

Its all about opinions - I might come on here in three games time and completely agree with you.

I cannot abide by booing our players while they are trying to play and win - you know for a fact it has happened and then add the whining twonks to that and its pretty dismal. Yes we can have fantastic support at times and in all honesty if the booing during the 90 was gone we could come to agree on the fans. The privileged thing isn't an attack or a criticism but I believe I've made my point as to it being there and why it might be that way.

[Red Rocket 244]

The 'modern fans', aka the lads and lasses in their teens and 20's, are often the ones making the noise and creating atmosphere. Don't have a clue what you're on about tbh.

[Randy Sandwich 209]

The 'modern fans', aka the lads and lasses in their teens and 20's, are often the ones making the noise and creating atmosphere. Don't have a clue what you're on about tbh.

It always helps to read someone's point if you want to know what they are on about. You obviously haven't and I'm certainly not going back over it all.

The atmosphere created by the south stand is generally fantastic and I would choose to go there each game but that means I can't meet my best friend for a pint before and at half time. The actual point was about entitlement - the majority of the south stand / red faction to not fall into that category which is why I wasn't discussing them.

I don't expect people to share my opinion but I'm allowed to have one, I've never ever shot you or anyone down for having an opinion but it seems that luxury is not afforded on me.