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Transfer Window, Change of formation and this seasons failures.


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Who cares how much money is made?  You buy players to get results on the pitch.  How have some of those names done in regards to that?

 

Who cares how much money is made ??  Everyone at the club I’d think

 

 

On transfers?  You think that's the club's priority?  It would certainly explain a few things I guess.

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Who cares how much money is made?  You buy players to get results on the pitch.  How have some of those names done in regards to that?

 

Who cares how much money is made ??  Everyone at the club I’d think

 

 

On transfers?  You think that's the club's priority?  It would certainly explain a few things I guess.

 

If your bothered about something does it have to be your priority

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I mean I'll just run through a few certain losses we're going to be making here:

 

Guedioura 4 million 12 months on write off

Fabio 3 million 18 months into a 2 year contract (???) write off

Barragan 3 million 18 months ago he'll have 12 months left if he returns probably write off

Fischer we look a nearly 2 million hit on, potentially similar loss to Braithwaite

 

So on the one hand we have had a low net spend in the past year and money has been made available it looks to me like in transfer fees alone we're writing off close to 15 million pounds I mean it's just a crazy way to run a football club right now. I said yesterday how Bausor's still in that job after the last 2 years of transfer business I have no idea I accept Monk/Karanka's failures absolutely but the trend in silly financial decisions cuts across Victor Orta, the summer restructure and now 3 managers that I feel like Bausor is underappreciated in it all.

 

Look I get this window from Pulis' point of view he was never going to build a full squad in January he's supplemented it with a couple of additions in key areas and will no doubt try his best with it and have himself a presumably handsome transfer kitty in the summer I have no problem with that but I don't want the spin to come out that we're somehow belt tightening as a reason I mean any club writing off 15 million in transfer fees has snapped the belt off the buckle at this point. Just let's all the journo's and the club be honest we've acted like any financially carefree club would with a new manager in January we've cut our losses on previous managers players brought in a couple of loans for 6 months and we'll build a new shiny squad in the summer with a large budget. I just hate the idea we're a well run club and somehow so special when we've acted just like the Chinese billionaire did at Villa when he cut losses on a ton of players because Bruce didn't want them etc, proof will be how much NET spend Pulis will get in the summer I'd imagine he'll be demanding 20-30 for all the talk of not wanting to spend Steve's money he was known at Palace, West Bram and Stoke for pushing for better budgets we'll see.

 

Apart from guedioura the rest are guesses

What about the million plus we made on forshaw or the money we made on de roon or the money we made on Christie

 

Unless Fabio's extending beyond 6 months and you think Barragan's returning from Spain I'm not sure where the guesses come into it?

 

I'm talking about players valued by the club at 3 million pounds and over 18 months ago suddenly valued at 0 and just completely writ off someone signed off on loaning Barragan in the summer surely they could have negotiated half the money back on him? Surely Fabio could have been either extended in the summer or sold for close to what we paid? Guedioura was a panic purchase that never held the value we paid anyway but questions the judgement of who signed off on it. Fischer we cut our losses on in the summer like we probably just have with Braithwaite but we're talking 12 months in and 6 months in we either overpaid for them in the first place or we sold them from a weak position of get rid at all costs.

 

We might make a couple of million on De Roon with add ons and we made decent profit on Forshaw doesn't come close to plugging the gap on what we've written off in the past 18 months in transfer fees. If I was guessing Rich I'd guess the wages some of these guys were on and add that to the tally but I'm dealing in things we know, I'm pretty comfortable saying that we have not been run particularly well financially in the past 18-24 months I'm not saying we're plundering into debt but I'm saying we should have a lot more money in the accounts than we do right now and for anyone who lived through the Mowbray years of nickel and diming I feel like I'm in a twilight zone.

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We made a 4 million profit on Bernardo. But that doesn't excuse the bad buys though, although Guerdioura is currently the only one we are definatly making a big loss on.

 

I’m not saying it’s an excuse. But it’s only the losses that get mentioned.  Your always going to win some and lose some  what matters long term is how much you are up or down.  I’d love to know if we are up or down over the last 12 months

 

No, what matters is the results we get.  Yayyy we made a profit on de Roon but oh dear we got relegated because he wasn't that good in the first place.  Yayyy we made a profit on Bernardo but oh dear we got relegated because he wasn't that good in the first place and so on.

 

Of course points matter that’s what you play for Braithwaite wasn’t really a bad buy he played ok and at times well. But the players don’t fit with the new manager. That’s football isn’t it.

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I mean I'll just run through a few certain losses we're going to be making here:

 

Guedioura 4 million 12 months on write off

Fabio 3 million 18 months into a 2 year contract (???) write off

Barragan 3 million 18 months ago he'll have 12 months left if he returns probably write off

Fischer we look a nearly 2 million hit on, potentially similar loss to Braithwaite

 

So on the one hand we have had a low net spend in the past year and money has been made available it looks to me like in transfer fees alone we're writing off close to 15 million pounds I mean it's just a crazy way to run a football club right now. I said yesterday how Bausor's still in that job after the last 2 years of transfer business I have no idea I accept Monk/Karanka's failures absolutely but the trend in silly financial decisions cuts across Victor Orta, the summer restructure and now 3 managers that I feel like Bausor is underappreciated in it all.

 

Look I get this window from Pulis' point of view he was never going to build a full squad in January he's supplemented it with a couple of additions in key areas and will no doubt try his best with it and have himself a presumably handsome transfer kitty in the summer I have no problem with that but I don't want the spin to come out that we're somehow belt tightening as a reason I mean any club writing off 15 million in transfer fees has snapped the belt off the buckle at this point. Just let's all the journo's and the club be honest we've acted like any financially carefree club would with a new manager in January we've cut our losses on previous managers players brought in a couple of loans for 6 months and we'll build a new shiny squad in the summer with a large budget. I just hate the idea we're a well run club and somehow so special when we've acted just like the Chinese billionaire did at Villa when he cut losses on a ton of players because Bruce didn't want them etc, proof will be how much NET spend Pulis will get in the summer I'd imagine he'll be demanding 20-30 for all the talk of not wanting to spend Steve's money he was known at Palace, West Bram and Stoke for pushing for better budgets we'll see.

 

Apart from guedioura the rest are guesses

What about the million plus we made on forshaw or the money we made on de roon or the money we made on Christie

 

Unless Fabio's extending beyond 6 months and you think Barragan's returning from Spain I'm not sure where the guesses come into it?

 

I'm talking about players valued by the club at 3 million pounds and over 18 months ago suddenly valued at 0 and just completely writ off someone signed off on loaning Barragan in the summer surely they could have negotiated half the money back on him? Surely Fabio could have been either extended in the summer or sold for close to what we paid? Guedioura was a panic purchase that never held the value we paid anyway but questions the judgement of who signed off on it. Fischer we cut our losses on in the summer like we probably just have with Braithwaite but we're talking 12 months in and 6 months in we either overpaid for them in the first place or we sold them from a weak position of get rid at all costs.

 

We might make a couple of million on De Roon with add ons and we made decent profit on Forshaw doesn't come close to plugging the gap on what we've written off in the past 18 months in transfer fees. If I was guessing Rich I'd guess the wages some of these guys were on and add that to the tally but I'm dealing in things I'm pretty comfortable saying that we have not been run particularly well financially in the past 18-24 months I'm not saying we're plundering into debt but I'm saying we should have a lot more money in the accounts than we do right now and for anyone who lived through the Mowbray years of nickel and diming I feel like I'm in a twilight zone.

 

Do we know if we received a fee for barragan or if we will

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Who cares how much money is made?  You buy players to get results on the pitch.  How have some of those names done in regards to that?

 

Who cares how much money is made ??  Everyone at the club I’d think

 

 

On transfers?  You think that's the club's priority?  It would certainly explain a few things I guess.

 

If your bothered about something does it have to be your priority

 

I don't know, you seem to think it is.  I think how the players play is more important than if we manage to make a profit on them but then I'm strange like that.  The only concern when signing a player should be whether you seriously expect him to play well for you.  Not hope that he plays well for you, not taking a punt on players (as we did the summer before last) but actually fully expect them to be better than what you have and do a good job.  If there is any consideration about crap like transfer fees, future transfer fees etc then they haven't got their priorities straight, which would certainly explain a few things that have happened here over the last couple of years.  You're the one talking about the profit we made on players like it's relevant and I really don't think it is when we're failing on the pitch.

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I mean I'll just run through a few certain losses we're going to be making here:

 

Guedioura 4 million 12 months on write off

Fabio 3 million 18 months into a 2 year contract (???) write off

Barragan 3 million 18 months ago he'll have 12 months left if he returns probably write off

Fischer we look a nearly 2 million hit on, potentially similar loss to Braithwaite

 

So on the one hand we have had a low net spend in the past year and money has been made available it looks to me like in transfer fees alone we're writing off close to 15 million pounds I mean it's just a crazy way to run a football club right now. I said yesterday how Bausor's still in that job after the last 2 years of transfer business I have no idea I accept Monk/Karanka's failures absolutely but the trend in silly financial decisions cuts across Victor Orta, the summer restructure and now 3 managers that I feel like Bausor is underappreciated in it all.

 

Look I get this window from Pulis' point of view he was never going to build a full squad in January he's supplemented it with a couple of additions in key areas and will no doubt try his best with it and have himself a presumably handsome transfer kitty in the summer I have no problem with that but I don't want the spin to come out that we're somehow belt tightening as a reason I mean any club writing off 15 million in transfer fees has snapped the belt off the buckle at this point. Just let's all the journo's and the club be honest we've acted like any financially carefree club would with a new manager in January we've cut our losses on previous managers players brought in a couple of loans for 6 months and we'll build a new shiny squad in the summer with a large budget. I just hate the idea we're a well run club and somehow so special when we've acted just like the Chinese billionaire did at Villa when he cut losses on a ton of players because Bruce didn't want them etc, proof will be how much NET spend Pulis will get in the summer I'd imagine he'll be demanding 20-30 for all the talk of not wanting to spend Steve's money he was known at Palace, West Bram and Stoke for pushing for better budgets we'll see.

 

Apart from guedioura the rest are guesses

What about the million plus we made on forshaw or the money we made on de roon or the money we made on Christie

 

Unless Fabio's extending beyond 6 months and you think Barragan's returning from Spain I'm not sure where the guesses come into it?

 

I'm talking about players valued by the club at 3 million pounds and over 18 months ago suddenly valued at 0 and just completely writ off someone signed off on loaning Barragan in the summer surely they could have negotiated half the money back on him? Surely Fabio could have been either extended in the summer or sold for close to what we paid? Guedioura was a panic purchase that never held the value we paid anyway but questions the judgement of who signed off on it. Fischer we cut our losses on in the summer like we probably just have with Braithwaite but we're talking 12 months in and 6 months in we either overpaid for them in the first place or we sold them from a weak position of get rid at all costs.

 

We might make a couple of million on De Roon with add ons and we made decent profit on Forshaw doesn't come close to plugging the gap on what we've written off in the past 18 months in transfer fees. If I was guessing Rich I'd guess the wages some of these guys were on and add that to the tally but I'm dealing in things I'm pretty comfortable saying that we have not been run particularly well financially in the past 18-24 months I'm not saying we're plundering into debt but I'm saying we should have a lot more money in the accounts than we do right now and for anyone who lived through the Mowbray years of nickel and diming I feel like I'm in a twilight zone.

 

Do we know if we received a fee for barragan or if we will

 

They might have an option to buy but they have all the leverage in the summer they could let the loan run out and run it down to the 31st August like Forest did with Guedioura refuse to pay a fee and wait for us to terminate his contract and it's another write off. If Fletcher doesn't perform well for Sunderland and Pulis decides in the summer he's not needed and not on a loan this time what would his realistic market value be sitting where he is now? 3 million maybe? Yet someone valued Fletcher at 7 million pounds 6 months ago and it wouldn't have been just Monk, they're the type of decisions I'm questioning I'm glad Pulis has slammed the brakes on spending because something's not right behind the scenes still maybe it's Gill maybe it's Bausor maybe it's Gibson but whoever is rubber stamping some of these valuations/contract decisions is not doing a very good job.

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Getting back to football..

 

I think with the activity in the jan transfer window, pulis is reverting to his 451 formation he played with West Brom earlier in the season.

 

 

Randolph

Shotten ayala  Gibson friend

Traore leadbitter besic howson downing

Assombalonga

 

With the potential of downing coming inside and harrison playing wide.

 

Quite similar players to what he had at West Brom too.

 

Bloody hell, I hope not.  Not exactly a lot of goals in that side is there?  :dodgy:

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Of course Karanka wanted Guedioura and signed off on it. He'd been after him for years. Doesn't make it any more of a signing made just to appease the manager after a truly awful transfer window. I can't imagine Karanka was cheering when he signed him after the players we'd missed out on.

 

I’m not sure that was the feeling at the time and it was used as a stick to beat the recruitment team with

 

Well the fact we had to sign Guedioura because we hadn't signed Jese, Bojan or Snodgrass... I think it's a perfectly good stick to beat the recruitment team with. He's hardly the same type of player, nor even a player we really needed. It was just the recruitment team dipping into the window for a late deal, spending more than enough money on a player they knew the manager liked in the past and who the manager undoubtedly agreed to sign for no reason other than the fact he needed another body in. What ensued after that shows how bad the deal was. If Guedioura's signing isn't one to beat the recruitment team over, I don't know what is.

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Well the fact we had to sign Guedioura because we hadn't signed Jese, Bojan or Snodgrass... I think it's a perfectly good stick to beat the recruitment team with. He's hardly the same type of player, nor even a player we really needed. It was just the recruitment team dipping into the window for a late deal, spending more than enough money on a player they knew the manager liked in the past and who the manager undoubtedly agreed to sign for no reason other than the fact he needed another body in. What ensued after that shows how bad the deal was. If Guedioura's signing isn't one to beat the recruitment team over, I don't know what is.

 

Amen, my brother from another mother.

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Who cares how much money is made?  You buy players to get results on the pitch.  How have some of those names done in regards to that?

 

Who cares how much money is made ??  Everyone at the club I’d think

 

 

On transfers?  You think that's the club's priority?  It would certainly explain a few things I guess.

 

If your bothered about something does it have to be your priority

 

I don't know, you seem to think it is.  I think how the players play is more important than if we manage to make a profit on them but then I'm strange like that.  The only concern when signing a player should be whether you seriously expect him to play well for you.  Not hope that he plays well for you, not taking a punt on players (as we did the summer before last) but actually fully expect them to be better than what you have and do a good job.  If there is any consideration about crap like transfer fees, future transfer fees etc then they haven't got their priorities straight, which would certainly explain a few things that have happened here over the last couple of years.  You're the one talking about the profit we made on players like it's relevant and I really don't think it is when we're failing on the pitch.

 

I don’t think at any point I mentioned how important I thought fees are or where. It was just the discussion was about losing money on players , if the discussion is about losing money that doesn’t mean people aren’t bothered about winning ,unless I’m mistaken you were the one that brought points and winning into a conversation about fees

But to say that losing money on fees shouldn’t be a consideration is possibly one of the daftest comments you’ve ever made .

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Of course Karanka wanted Guedioura and signed off on it. He'd been after him for years. Doesn't make it any more of a signing made just to appease the manager after a truly awful transfer window. I can't imagine Karanka was cheering when he signed him after the players we'd missed out on.

 

I’m not sure that was the feeling at the time and it was used as a stick to beat the recruitment team with

 

Well the fact we had to sign Guedioura because we hadn't signed Jese, Bojan or Snodgrass... I think it's a perfectly good stick to beat the recruitment team with. He's hardly the same type of player, nor even a player we really needed. It was just the recruitment team dipping into the window for a late deal, spending more than enough money on a player they knew the manager liked in the past and who the manager undoubtedly agreed to sign for no reason other than the fact he needed another body in. What ensued after that shows how bad the deal was. If Guedioura's signing isn't one to beat the recruitment team over, I don't know what is.

 

He was obviously a player Karanka wanted so why is that bad on the recruitment team

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I don’t think at any point I mentioned how important I thought fees are or where.   It was just the discussion was about losing money on players , if the discussion is about losing money that doesn’t mean people aren’t bothered about winning ,unless I’m mistaken you were the one that brought points and winning into a conversation about fees

But to say that losing money on fees shouldn’t be a consideration is possibly one of the daftest comments you’ve ever made .

 

You were talking about some of our transfers as if the fact we made money on them was important, when I think how they play or played for us is the important thing.  That's all, pretty simple really and as I've said it a couple of times now you should be able to understand what I'm saying. 

 

If you think a comment is daft then that pretty much guarantees it has some merit :)

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