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Boro vs Norwich City (a) 0-1


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its clear whats up. the players had it on easy street with monk. it showed on the pitch. pulis now has them grafting and a few of them dont like it. they are a spilt camp again. pulis will sell all the players not playing for him and is 100% backed by gibson. another clear out next window is coming.

 

I don't think it's as simple as that mate.  We have a group of players who have been asked to do certain things for half the season and are now being asked to do things differently.  Aside from the fact that it will take some time for them to adjust, some of them just won't be able to change in the required way.  Look at Christie as an example, there was no way on earth he'd be able to become the kind of right back that Pulis is looking for.  It's not about grafting, it's just about suitability.  I'm not sure I see any specific signs of a split camp either.

 

Guys we are acting like no other club has manager changes but us, other clubs players have to cope with manager changes with that their change in tactics. The question im wondering is why is it only our players cant adapt the way they play to suit a new manager style once he gets his message across to them? because Agnew who was a good coach struggled to get them to change as did Monk.

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I can't believe the club is appealing that red card. Clear as day. The challenges were somewhat different (given the height of the ball) but if they're appealing that, then they must feel Dale Stephens should have got his red card rescinded for his challenge on Ramirez. In both instances, the ball was initially won before the follow-through caught the player with studs showing. Both are clear red cards. More likely to get his ban extended than have it entirely rescinded.

 

Yeah this is a weird appeal because it's a red card all day every day, and you're right, if the FA can add an extra game to the ban for a frivolous appeal alone, which this seems to be.

 

Not to mention whatever they can add for the fact it was a stupid tackle.

 

pointless appeal. Who cares if hes out for 1,3 or 4 games. Play some kid from the reserves in the remaining games hes not available for. All our matches left are now no more than glorified friendly warm up games for next season.

 

You surrender if you want to

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Players don't just change and adapt in a flash. Some can't adapt at all. That's one of the reasons clubs invest so much money in players that suit a certain brand of football. That's why we spent so much money on players to work in a new system derived by Monk and why two of the main buys have already left in Christie and Braithwaite.

 

Monk was a far cry from Karanka, similarly so is Pulis from Monk. Without significant investment, Pulis is working with a bunch of players who he would likely never have bought himself given the opportunity because they don't fit. The only fortune he's really had is that some of Karanka's leftovers are still around. Some of the better performers under Pulis are players brought up during Karanka's reign, namely 3 of the back 4. Another piece of fortune is that Ryan Shotton was brought in as a back up centre back for Monk and very much fits the kind of full back he wants.

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I know that. But everything about Monk didn't fit. I say that as someone who defended him the entirety of his time here. I completely disagree that any of it was beginning to click too, it was same old, same old, never learning from mistakes and pinning defensive frailties on bad luck rather than tactical naivety.

 

So Monk had to go. Who is to say who else we could bring in if not Pulis? This team might not fit Pulis but he is a better manager than Monk right now in general. We didn't just have a pick of who we wanted at the end of the day.

 

Like you said, after AK went Pulis would have been a more reasonable choice. But he wasn't a choice at all. He was still managing West Brom. He wasn't available until long after we had Monk installed as manager. There's no way in hell that we could have brought him here then. And I have no idea who would have been more suitable who was actually available. We're not Barca or Madrid, we don't go out and pick a manager who suits us best and sign them because we can. We do as best we can and Pulis, as far as I'm concerned, is about the best we could hope for.

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I know that. But everything about Monk didn't fit. I say that as someone who defended him the entirety of his time here. I completely disagree that any of it was beginning to click too, it was same old, same old, never learning from mistakes and pinning defensive frailties on bad luck rather than tactical naivety.

 

So Monk had to go. Who is to say who else we could bring in if not Pulis? This team might not fit Pulis but he is a better manager than Monk right now in general. We didn't just have a pick of who we wanted at the end of the day.

 

Like you said, after AK went Pulis would have been a more reasonable choice. But he wasn't a choice at all. He was still managing West Brom. He wasn't available until long after we had Monk installed as manager. There's no way in hell that we could have brought him here then. And I have no idea who would have been more suitable who was actually available. We're not Barca or Madrid, we don't go out and pick a manager who suits us best and sign them because we can. We do as best we can and Pulis, as far as I'm concerned, is about the best we could hope for.

 

This is exactly right, just because Pulis has started badly it seems like people are starting to rewrite history with Monk. It wasn't starting to click at all, we couldn't defend for toffee under him so we were never gonna put any sort of consistent run together.

 

Maybe Pulis was the wrong appointment and maybe he will fail here, time will tell. When I was complaining about Monk on here I was constantly being told that there's no way Gibson will sack him so I might as well get behind him, I think that advice applies even more so now. It feels like Pulis has been brought in to oversee a rebuild of the squad and I think he'll be given time to do it.

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Took a break from Boro since the horror at Norwich and just got back to thinking about it. 6 points off the play offs. That is slightly painful to think about. Fairly big gap at the moment. Still obviously possible, but we likely need something like a 5 match winning streak to get into the playoffs, and I just don't see that happening with this squad. So much is depending on Harrison and Besic because none of the players being shoved out on the left wing or playing next to Howson is going to win us any points.

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Couldn't face posting straight after the match but that was a very poor game between two avearge champo sides on saturday. Even my Norwich mates agreed that until the sending off it was either 0-0 or possible 1-0 to us but after Gestede stupidly got himself sent off then the final hour was just dreadful. Traore on his own up front was just pointless as he was surrounded at all times and had no movement. Not blaming the lad as not his game but Pulis should have seen that. Would have made more sense to go 3 at the back as Norwich didn't even know how to break us down but the total lack of fight to get anything from the game was dispiriting.

 

I dont get to see them often these days but that was as poor as I have seen for a very long time.

 

Play-offs feel like a distant dream now but we will cling to the hope that we can sneak the final spot between now and the remainder of the season.

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@Wilson - as I said previously, it's all opinion and supposition on what would/could have happened if Monk had stayed. You're right we had no chance of getting Pulis after AK left, but that wasn't what I said anyway. My point was that an appointment of that ilk would've been far more suited to that time than it is to now.

 

Regardless of wether Pulis is the better manager, suitability is key. You could pick out Pep and put him in charge of a pub team full of overweight middle aged men, they're not going to play like City/Barca/Bayern.

At least under Monk we had game changing players like Assombalonga, Braithwaite and Christie turning up occasionally; setting up and scoring goals.

We've got rid of 12 goals from the team - just under 1/3 of our entire league haul for the season. Add to that the fact that our top striker with 12 goals has been demoted and/or asked to play a role totally unsuited to him and it's evident where the problem is. If you include Assombalonga into that figure of goals taken out of the team, that's 63% of all our goal contributions taken away... Yes, we needed more stability at the back. Yes, we needed changes - but we've thrown the baby out with the bath water.

 

Yes, Traore has blossomed and offers something different, Downing has carried on his good form and Ayala is moving back towards his best - but there's a reason we're losing all these games 1-0. We're two-dimensional, have sapped creativity from the side and Pulis/Assombalonga don't have the adaptability to match up - and I don't see our new signings making any real change to that.

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Can't help but feel pessimistic (realistic) after last week. 1 point and 0 goals scored against two mid-table teams. The January transfer window hasn't left us stronger, you could argue its made us weaker. With 15 games left to play I honestly feel this is an extended pre-season now until Pulis can sign his own players in the Summer.

 

Yes the play offs are mathematically possible... but they still are for every team down to about 13th, what makes people confident we'll be the ones to do it. Usually takes around 80 points to finish in the play-offs. We have 45 from 30 games... so likely need to pick up 35 minimum whilst still to play Wolves, Cardiff, Derby, Bristol, Sheff U... Its just not going to happen for a team that can't score goals.

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Can't help but feel pessimistic (realistic) after last week. 1 point and 0 goals scored against two mid-table teams. The January transfer window hasn't left us stronger, you could argue its made us weaker. With 15 games left to play I honestly feel this is an extended pre-season now until Pulis can sign his own players in the Summer.

 

Yes the play offs are mathematically possible... but they still are for every team down to about 13th, what makes people confident we'll be the ones to do it. Usually takes around 80 points to finish in the play-offs. We have 45 from 30 games... so likely need to pick up 35 minimum whilst still to play Wolves, Cardiff, Derby, Bristol, Sheff U... Its just not going to happen for a team that can't score goals.

There's no doubt the transfer window has left us weaker, we all knew where we needed to strengthen and it wasn't in defence, I would sooner we got rid of one of Bamford or Gestede  and brought another striker in, but under Pulis that was never going to happen. With Britt out of form and a non scoring midfield I just don't know where the goals are going to come from, we must be going to rely heavily on set pieces, the top 6 sides just look better equipped to stay above us in my opinion.

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Can't help but feel pessimistic (realistic) after last week. 1 point and 0 goals scored against two mid-table teams. The January transfer window hasn't left us stronger, you could argue its made us weaker. With 15 games left to play I honestly feel this is an extended pre-season now until Pulis can sign his own players in the Summer.

 

Yes the play offs are mathematically possible... but they still are for every team down to about 13th, what makes people confident we'll be the ones to do it. Usually takes around 80 points to finish in the play-offs. We have 45 from 30 games... so likely need to pick up 35 minimum whilst still to play Wolves, Cardiff, Derby, Bristol, Sheff U... Its just not going to happen for a team that can't score goals.

There's no doubt the transfer window has left us weaker, we all knew where we needed to strengthen and it wasn't in defence, I would sooner we got rid of one of Bamford or Gestede  and brought another striker in, but under Pulis that was never going to happen. With Britt out of form and a non scoring midfield I just don't know where the goals are going to come from, we must be going to rely heavily on set pieces, the top 6 sides just look better equipped to stay above us in my opinion.

 

Yep, and not only do we need Boro to win pretty much 70% of the remaining games, we also need three teams above us to do worse and hope the likes of Brentford don't catch us either. 

 

Again, not impossible.. but very unlikely now.

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I think I pretty much called it right, (for once),  on Saturday when I said that creativity and forward movement goes out of the window with both Leadbitter and Clayton in the side. Obviously it did not help with Gestede being sent off, (defend and appeal that Pulis, Really!), but I always thought the best we could manage would be a 0-0. As for the play offs, it is a pipe dream, and even if we did by some fluke suddenly improve, who for a second thinks we are a better team than, Derby, Fulham, Cardiff and Villa, not a snowball in hells chance over two legs with that lot. It feels like the season is effectively over and we will be playing a series of trial games up until the end when half of the current team will be sold, (at a huge loss probably), and we start again for a year until Pulis finally retires and the merry go round starts again, probably with Fleming as manager. Would it have been any better with Monk staying, who knows, tactically he was just inept and all Pulis had to do to improve the defence was stop the full backs getting lost upfield all the time, but frankly I think most people on here were advocating exactly the same thing. Feels like a pretty bleak picture at the moment, but we are resilient us Boro fans.

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Whoa the forum has certainly gone into negative freefall. I believe the consensus is damming but to be fair the writing was on the wall in the first 1/4 of the season. Being a BORO fan we laugh in the face of failure but it's no longer funny and now painful soulless. I guess when your young time or a season means not a great deal, but pushing late 50s its all to obvious a season is a lifetime.

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This is exactly right, just because Pulis has started badly it seems like people are starting to rewrite history with Monk. It wasn't starting to click at all, we couldn't defend for toffee under him so we were never gonna put any sort of consistent run together.

 

Maybe Pulis was the wrong appointment and maybe he will fail here, time will tell. When I was complaining about Monk on here I was constantly being told that there's no way Gibson will sack him so I might as well get behind him, I think that advice applies even more so now. It feels like Pulis has been brought in to oversee a rebuild of the squad and I think he'll be given time to do it.

 

We had one of the best defensive records in the league under Monk.  Our defensive record with Pulis is not really any different to date - slightly under a goal per game conceded by my reckoning as compared to about a goal per game under Monk.

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