Boro vs. Sheffield United (A) 1-2 (Ayala)

[Teacider 48]

We don't want to turn into Leeds, sacking a manager every few months... We're scoring more and conceding less than we were under Monk, but the same underlying problems of being inept against our rivals has remained, will a 3rd manager in one year resolve this? I doubt it...

 

 

 

We are conceding exactly the same amount of goals as we did under Monk.  There has been no improvement whatsoever in this area.  We might look more organised, we might be more defensive in our outlook but defensively we haven't improved at all.

 

Monk - 23 goals 23 games - 1 per game

Pulis  - 18 goals 18 games - 1 per game

 

Against same opposition i.e. the same teams we have faced under Monk and Pulis, the record actually favours Monk not Pulis:

 

Monk - 16 goals 18 games - 0.8889

Pulis  - 18 goals 18 games - 1

 

Goal scoring has improved under Pulis however:

 

Monk - 30 goals 23 games - 1.3043 per game

Pulis  - 27 goals 18 games - 1.5000 per game

 

Against same opposition:

 

Monk - 23 goals 18 games - 1.2778 per game

Pulis  - 27 goals 18 games - 1.5000 per game

 

Points per game is virtually identical:

 

Monk 35 points 23 games - 1.5217 per game

Pulis  28 points 18 games - 1.5556 per game

Monk against same teams - 27 points 18 games - 1.5000 per game

 

Any improvement is largely in people's heads I'm afraid.  We've scored a few more goals but not at a rate that makes any real difference to our results or the season as a whole as it stands.

 

Yep - and given it's largely the same team that's no real surprise - and evidence that the squad isn't good enough (rather than either manager being to blame for performances) - though Monk did put the squad together Pulis just inherited it so more blame there.

[Changing Times 4,978]

If the referee deemed it to be reckless then it's a yellow card, it's as simple as that.

[Changing Times 4,978]

We don't want to turn into Leeds, sacking a manager every few months... We're scoring more and conceding less than we were under Monk, but the same underlying problems of being inept against our rivals has remained, will a 3rd manager in one year resolve this? I doubt it...

 

 

 

We are conceding exactly the same amount of goals as we did under Monk.  There has been no improvement whatsoever in this area.  We might look more organised, we might be more defensive in our outlook but defensively we haven't improved at all.

 

Monk - 23 goals 23 games - 1 per game

Pulis  - 18 goals 18 games - 1 per game

 

Against same opposition i.e. the same teams we have faced under Monk and Pulis, the record actually favours Monk not Pulis:

 

Monk - 16 goals 18 games - 0.8889

Pulis  - 18 goals 18 games - 1

 

Goal scoring has improved under Pulis however:

 

Monk - 30 goals 23 games - 1.3043 per game

Pulis  - 27 goals 18 games - 1.5000 per game

 

Against same opposition:

 

Monk - 23 goals 18 games - 1.2778 per game

Pulis  - 27 goals 18 games - 1.5000 per game

 

Points per game is virtually identical:

 

Monk 35 points 23 games - 1.5217 per game

Pulis  28 points 18 games - 1.5556 per game

Monk against same teams - 27 points 18 games - 1.5000 per game

 

Any improvement is largely in people's heads I'm afraid.  We've scored a few more goals but not at a rate that makes any real difference to our results or the season as a whole as it stands.

 

Yep - and given it's largely the same team that's no real surprise - and evidence that the squad isn't good enough (rather than either manager being to blame for performances) - though Monk did put the squad together Pulis just inherited it so more blame there.

 

Indeed but I don't want Pulis to be given the opportunity to put a squad together here :)

[Foogle 637]

We don't want to turn into Leeds, sacking a manager every few months... We're scoring more and conceding less than we were under Monk, but the same underlying problems of being inept against our rivals has remained, will a 3rd manager in one year resolve this? I doubt it...

 

 

 

We are conceding exactly the same amount of goals as we did under Monk.  There has been no improvement whatsoever in this area.  We might look more organised, we might be more defensive in our outlook but defensively we haven't improved at all.

 

Monk - 23 goals 23 games - 1 per game

Pulis  - 18 goals 18 games - 1 per game

 

Against same opposition i.e. the same teams we have faced under Monk and Pulis, the record actually favours Monk not Pulis:

 

Monk - 16 goals 18 games - 0.8889

Pulis  - 18 goals 18 games - 1

 

Goal scoring has improved under Pulis however:

 

Monk - 30 goals 23 games - 1.3043 per game

Pulis  - 27 goals 18 games - 1.5000 per game

 

Against same opposition:

 

Monk - 23 goals 18 games - 1.2778 per game

Pulis  - 27 goals 18 games - 1.5000 per game

 

Points per game is virtually identical:

 

Monk 35 points 23 games - 1.5217 per game

Pulis  28 points 18 games - 1.5556 per game

Monk against same teams - 27 points 18 games - 1.5000 per game

 

Any improvement is largely in people's heads I'm afraid.  We've scored a few more goals but not at a rate that makes any real difference to our results or the season as a whole as it stands.

 

To be fair I included the 2-0 at Bolton, which I guess he was just in charge from the stands for. I think the improvements in goal scoring is down largely to better set piece routines, I distinctly remember scoring very few set piece goals under Monk.

 

I'm in the mindset that it wouldn't have mattered what manager we would have had, with the set of players we started the season with we wouldn't have won automatic promotion. A lot of the lads currently at the club are still suffering a relegation hangover and most of the recruits bought in simply weren't good enough... (obviously a different manager would have spent the money better)

 

My biggest fear is that we end up buying a load of old hoofers in the summer window, but the loan signings and targets have been anything but: Besic, Mitrovic, Harrison all young and dynamic (Cranie aside :funny: ).

 

I'm prepared to hold judgement on Pulis until we're a year or so into his tenure. Thought the same about Monk, but pretty glad we got rid in the end...

[wilsoncgp 4,746]

 

I've heard we might be able to get it extended to 4 upon appeal

 

Maybe if the club goes behind Pulis' back. He was apparently hugely disappointed with the referee for the sending off. Baffling.

 

Not sure what is baffling about it - it was a pretty harsh decision to give the 2nd yellow.

 

I've just watched it back a good 5-6 times. Harsh is not remotely the word I'd use. Made the most of it? Sure. United players were throwing themselves to the floor all night.

 

But it was late and he was nowhere near the ball. In what world are you living in where that 2nd yellow was a harsh decision?

 

Ah, apologies - I didn't realise I was replying to Andy Hinchcliffe.

 

You said yourself in the above quote that he "made the most of it".  The Sheff Utd player dives over the outstretched leg of Grant and then writhes around in apparent agony, only to make a miraculous recovery once the second yellow comes out.

 

It isn't a clear yellow card offence, therefore in my opinion it was harsh.  In other words, I live in a world where you're talking ***.

 

So your argument is that BECAUSE the fella made the most of it, it wasn't a 2nd yellow? Right.

 

Making the most of a foul is not the equivalent of a dive. Gaston Ramirez made the most of Dale Stephens challenge in the final game of our promotion season. It doesn't mean it wasn't a red card. Christ.

[jamesp 125]

Don’t buy people saying we aren’t good enough, this squad is much better than our last promotion team in a weaker league

 

Where are we better?

 

Much better in goal

Ayala, Gibson and Friend all have a years perm experience

Besic much stronger than anyone we had in midfield

Traore one of the best players in this league

Bamford and Britt much better than Rhodes and Nugent

 

Problem is we have a much worse manager now

[wilsoncgp 4,746]

Well Ayala and Friend barely played in the Prem, they spent half of it injured. Gibson for sure but he hasn't brought that form with him, though I'm largely convinced it's because this division is majorly different.

 

Besic isn't MUCH stronger than anyone we had in midfield, in my opinion. Grant and Clayts were two of the best midfielders in the Championship when we were promoted, Forshaw wasn't far off them either and a more than able deputy. Obviously not the same players now, particularly Grant, but Besic much better than either of those 3 when we went up? Meh, not convinced. Stands out in this team for the most part for sure, though.

 

Traore is potentially one of the best players in the league but it took some getting out of him. His consistency has started to become a concern again over the past 2-3 games.

 

The strikers are better goalscorers but then we never did function under Karanka with a striker who was predominantly a goalscorer. So I'm not convinced overall that the strikers are much better, certainly not with Britt anyway.

 

On the flip side since then we lost 3 of the best attackers in the Championship from our promotion season too in Adomah, Ramirez and Stuani. Stuani drifted in the 2nd half of the season in terms of goals but he was still a big part of our team. Adomah seemed to get better and better. Ramirez was a class above this division and easily more consistent and effective than Traore has ever been for us overall.

[smoggyindonny 7]

 

Maybe if the club goes behind Pulis' back. He was apparently hugely disappointed with the referee for the sending off. Baffling.

 

Not sure what is baffling about it - it was a pretty harsh decision to give the 2nd yellow.

 

I've just watched it back a good 5-6 times. Harsh is not remotely the word I'd use. Made the most of it? Sure. United players were throwing themselves to the floor all night.

 

But it was late and he was nowhere near the ball. In what world are you living in where that 2nd yellow was a harsh decision?

 

Ah, apologies - I didn't realise I was replying to Andy Hinchcliffe.

 

You said yourself in the above quote that he "made the most of it".  The Sheff Utd player dives over the outstretched leg of Grant and then writhes around in apparent agony, only to make a miraculous recovery once the second yellow comes out.

 

It isn't a clear yellow card offence, therefore in my opinion it was harsh.  In other words, I live in a world where you're talking ***.

 

So your argument is that BECAUSE the fella made the most of it, it wasn't a 2nd yellow? Right.

 

Making the most of a foul is not the equivalent of a dive. Gaston Ramirez made the most of Dale Stephens challenge in the final game of our promotion season. It doesn't mean it wasn't a red card. Christ.

 

Gaston made the most of a challenge that left a 6 inch gash in his leg which needed stitches and ended his game?

 

Gaston didn't make the most of that challenge at all and even bringing it up in the context of last night's red shows a level of stupidity I can barely comprehend. Christ!

[wilsoncgp 4,746]

Not half as stupid as someone suggesting that a player making a meal of a challenge invalidates the reason for a booking. It was still a bookable offence, however which way you're going to put it.

[Tom 761]

 

 

Then Monk shouldn't have been sacked as he only got 5 more games than Pulis.  By the season's end Pulis will have had 1 fewer game than Monk.  Unless we finish strongly, there's a chance we'll have been worse under Pulis than Monk.

 

We would be insane to give him any time to do anything here.  Unfortunately I think Gibson is either becoming increasingly desperate or increasingly daft.

 

Yes, this sums up my feelings.

 

Pulis will get the benefit of the doubt for some people because he hasn't spent any money and got his own players in.

BUT Gibson wouldn't have sacked Monk after a victory when we were 3 points off the playoffs in order to bring in Pulis if he wasn't convinced that TP could do something this season. It was a roll of the dice, and although I don't think it was a bad decision at the time, 'desperate' is probably the right word to use. Maybe he was hoping it would be another Venables situation, which was, looking back, a similar gamble, but one that obviously paid off.

Where Gibson would go wrong would be to let Pulis take this team into next season. As much as he talks about Stoke, that was a decade ago, and the game has moved on. A pre-season going into a promotion campaign with a Tony Pulis team sounds pretty unappealing right now.

My fear is that we somehow bumble our way into 6th, and have a mare in the playoffs, but because he got us there, Pulis gets another year to have a crack at it.

[Borodane 2,438]

Don’t buy people saying we aren’t good enough, this squad is much better than our last promotion team in a weaker league

 

Where are we better?

 

Much better in goal

Ayala, Gibson and Friend all have a years perm experience

Besic much stronger than anyone we had in midfield

Traore one of the best players in this league

Bamford and Britt much better than Rhodes and Nugent

 

Problem is we have a much worse manager now

 

Much better in goal - I'll give you that

Ayala, Gibson and Friend all have a years perm experience - Friend was so much better two years ago. A different player. Ayala was better too. Gibson was good last year but not convinced he's better now than he was when we were promoted.

Besic much stronger than anyone we had in midfield. - Not a lot of difference between Besic and Clayton of two years ago. Actually think I'd rather have that old Clayton. Howson is a clear upgrade though.

Traore one of the best players in this league. - I'd much rather have Ramirez from that season. Was so much more effective than Traore.

Bamford and Britt much better than Rhodes and Nugent. - You're right here.

 

Problem is we have a much worse manager now - tbh I don't really know here. Both defensive managers without much clue about attacking or a willingness to do so. AKs advantage was that he had been with us and the players for a few years and the fact that Friend, Ayala, Clayton, Leadbitter and Ramirez were in the form of their careers.

[BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,331]

Stuani was better than all of them! ;)

[Betamaxman 14]

Don’t buy people saying we aren’t good enough, this squad is much better than our last promotion team in a weaker league

 

Where are we better?

 

Much better in goal

Ayala, Gibson and Friend all have a years perm experience

Besic much stronger than anyone we had in midfield

Traore one of the best players in this league

Bamford and Britt much better than Rhodes and Nugent

 

Problem is we have a much worse manager now

 

Unless you base it on facts, and their respective track records, in which case we have a much better manager.

[Will 1,315]

Don’t buy people saying we aren’t good enough, this squad is much better than our last promotion team in a weaker league

 

Where are we better?

 

Much better in goal

Ayala, Gibson and Friend all have a years perm experience

Besic much stronger than anyone we had in midfield

Traore one of the best players in this league

Bamford and Britt much better than Rhodes and Nugent

 

Problem is we have a much worse manager now

 

Unless you base it on facts, and their respective track records, in which case we have a much better manager.

 

The fact is that one of them got us promoted, the other doesn't look close to doing so with a much more expensively assembled squad.

[p_mards 683]

The promoted squad was slowly but surely assembled over time to suit Karanka's system, thus had far better balance and different options, and it's mentality was fantastic. Ramirez and Adomah in that system made it click. Even Stuani's goals from the wing added a lot. We were a proper team them. Now we're heavily reliant on just Traore. Football is a game of fine margins so I'm not all that surprised to see us struggling despite Monk spending, and wasting, a lot of money. We need to start assembling a squad to our managers system if we're ever going to progress. This current group has some good quality individuals but doesn't come close to the team we were under Karanka.