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It's true.. We have been *** since the last IB ..

 

But

 

We have had our fair share of bad luck, missed sitters and bad refs ..

 

We will be fine

 

I completely agree with you mate, I fully expect we will be fine, but the bad luck, missed sitters and bad refs don't make the general play more exciting.

 

Maybe there should have been a few more goals sprinkled through, but most of the play would still have been garbage.

 

I just really really hope we can get back to our early season form.

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It's true.. We have been *** since the last IB ..

 

But

 

We have had our fair share of bad luck, missed sitters and bad refs ..

 

We will be fine

 

I completely agree with you mate, I fully expect we will be fine, but the bad luck, missed sitters and bad refs don't make the general play more exciting.

 

Maybe there should have been a few more goals sprinkled through, but most of the play would still have been garbage.

 

I just really really hope we can get back to our early season form.

 

It was more exciting in the start, cause we scored when we could .... 

 

Imagine if we din't come back V Millwall .. If Brum won 1-0 ( that wasn't an unfair result, according to play and chances) ... If Ayala's winner V  WBA was disallowed and he was booked ... 

 

It's a thin line 

 

After the IB and the game just before .. Imagine Hull not scoring from a bad penna... We nicked the win 1-0 in Leeds (we were the better team), We scored against Swansea .. (again we were the better team) If Braithwaite scored v Nottingham, when it was still 0-0 ... 

 

Only the Norwich game stand completely out, as the really really really poor performance ... 

 

Hoping my points about a thin line is understood, the way i mean it. 

 

I await some hate from some

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The Birmingham game, if I remember rightly, we should have scored about 6 goals, I don't know how we only scored one there.

 

But yeah I understand your general point.

 

Don't want to be disrespectful, mate. 

 

We could have won bigger v Brum, yeah .. But they could also have won 1-0 

 

Possession 52-48 

 

Shots 10 v 11 

 

On Target 2 v 4

 

Corners 3 v 9 

 

Brum have also played really well in other games too. 

 

I felt, when we didn't score on a few big chances, that they would come and get us .. But we came through the storm and won 1-0, which made me say pheeewww, when the ref blew the whistle.

 

But glad, you understand my general points ;)

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It's true.. We have been *** since the last IB ..

 

But

 

We have had our fair share of bad luck, missed sitters and bad refs ..

 

We will be fine

 

I completely agree with you mate, I fully expect we will be fine, but the bad luck, missed sitters and bad refs don't make the general play more exciting.

 

Maybe there should have been a few more goals sprinkled through, but most of the play would still have been garbage.

 

I just really really hope we can get back to our early season form.

 

It was more exciting in the start, cause we scored when we could .... 

 

Imagine if we din't come back V Millwall .. If Brum won 1-0 ( that wasn't an unfair result, according to play and chances) ... If Ayala's winner V  WBA was disallowed and he was booked ... 

 

It's a thin line 

 

After the IB and the game just before .. Imagine Hull not scoring from a bad penna... We nicked the win 1-0 in Leeds (we were the better team), We scored against Swansea .. (again we were the better team) If Braithwaite scored v Nottingham, when it was still 0-0 ... 

 

Only the Norwich game stand completely out, as the really really really poor performance ... 

 

Hoping my points about a thin line is understood, the way i mean it. 

 

I await some hate from some

 

No hate, but it was quite obvious that we were pretty bad against Hull and Forest too. It's not just the Norwich game. No matter how much you try to gloss it over we didn't deserve three points from any of those games. To have come away with 1 point from those three games is a true reflection of the performances. Now, if those games were scattered over the course of the season I wouldn't think about it, but when they all come within weeks we have a real problem on our hands. 

 

I fail to see how Pulis is going to change his habit of approaching games and I'm beginning to think that our early season form was more down to luck as he didn't have all his players in and had to play players like Fry, Wing and Tav that gave us something extra in terms of youthful exuberance. 

 

I'll be the first to praise Pulis if he manages to turn around our performances starting on Friday but I'm not going to hold my breath here.

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I think that Pulis plays far more exciting football than Karanka ever did. We have been a hell of a lot better than people on here would try and have you believe this season

 

It really is crazy how differently people view football! I thought karankas football was far more entertaining to watch than pulis as we always had 2, 3, 4 players who could make something happen whereas with pulis we know how were going to get our goals 90% of the time.

 

We also had the discussion a few weeks ago about direct vs patient play and I think it really depends on what you prefer to watch as to who's management style you prefer. There's no doubt they are both conservative. But even watching us versus forest, I really liked how they played and saw shades of 15/16 us in them and it doubled down my opinion of how much worse out football is now than it was then.

 

No wrong views here but I happen to fall on the side of not being ***d with pulis ball.

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I think that Pulis plays far more exciting football than Karanka ever did. We have been a hell of a lot better than people on here would try and have you believe this season

 

It really is crazy how differently people view football! I thought karankas football was far more entertaining to watch than pulis as we always had 2, 3, 4 players who could make something happen whereas with pulis we know how were going to get our goals 90% of the time.

 

We also had the discussion a few weeks ago about direct vs patient play and I think it really depends on what you prefer to watch as to who's management style you prefer. There's no doubt they are both conservative. But even watching us versus forest, I really liked how they played and saw shades of 15/16 us in them and it doubled down my opinion of how much worse out football is now than it was then.

 

No wrong views here but I happen to fall on the side of not being ***d with pulis ball.

 

Neverbefore - I agree with you that it's mad how different the views can be.

 

I 100% agree with Blanco, I find Pulis's football far more exciting than I ever did Karanka's..... but others are the complete opposite.

 

Like you say though, we had this discussion a few weeks ago, when I was trying to get my head around why it was that I preferred one over the other.... and I think you were right about the direct v patient play thing.

 

I think this forum drags itself down a bit though. I'd say that there's more negativity now than there was a few years ago when (IMO) the football was at least as bad. Maybe expectations are higher now, as has been mentioned.

 

However, guys like Borodane, who I always thought was quite positive before.... seems to be on a perma-downer now!

 

Having said that, one thing that is/was irritating about both AK & Pulis is how they still stay defensive, even against teams that we are WAY superior to. MAYBE switching it around week on week is too hard to do (ie. players are drilled in a certain way) but in the season we went up under AK, I went to several away games, but MK Dons, Charlton, and Bristol City all spring to mind..... where WE looked like the team at the bottom and sat back and defended against the teams who were ACTUALLY at the bottom. (And we came out of those three matches with two losses and a draw). People have been complaining a bit about Pulis doing something similar (although for me, at least we punt it forwards and get it in two the oppo's box)!! :-P

 

All very interesting.....

 

COME ON BORO!

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I think that Pulis plays far more exciting football than Karanka ever did. We have been a hell of a lot better than people on here would try and have you believe this season

 

It really is crazy how differently people view football! I thought karankas football was far more entertaining to watch than pulis as we always had 2, 3, 4 players who could make something happen whereas with pulis we know how were going to get our goals 90% of the time.

 

We also had the discussion a few weeks ago about direct vs patient play and I think it really depends on what you prefer to watch as to who's management style you prefer. There's no doubt they are both conservative. But even watching us versus forest, I really liked how they played and saw shades of 15/16 us in them and it doubled down my opinion of how much worse out football is now than it was then.

 

No wrong views here but I happen to fall on the side of not being ***d with pulis ball.

 

Agree NB. Not sure how anyone can say Pulis plays more exciting football. I remember the championship seasons with Karanka peoples biggest gripe was having both Leadbitter and Clayton in the midfield 2, how it was too slow and unadventurous, this was despite having Adomah/Tomlin/Stuani/Kike or one of the other strikers in the starting 11. Bloody hell I'd kill for that type of unadventurous set up right now where we are left with basically just the striker (and sometimes Braithwaite) as attacking options. This is despite having one of the best budgets in the division.

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Yeah, Klopp's philosophy is fantastic for a club like Dortmund or Liverpool. And whilst I didn't see a lot of Dortmund, I've seen plenty of Liverpool under Klopp and they are really worth watching. But lets not forget the players and the money at his disposal to make that happen effectively. The investment has been pretty constant since he came to Liverpool. And hell, they can sustain that because of who they are. They can keep trying and keep trying at that and because of who they have, they're pretty much never going to have to worry about anything but missing out on European football.

 

If you ask me if I think entertainment is important in football in general, of course I agree. I love watching great teams of great players play great football. And yes, I love it on the off occasion we've played great football in my time as a Boro fan. But I'd also counter that and say if I was a player or a manager, and certainly as a fan, I'll take the win first and foremost. I look back on the Carling Cup we won and I don't sit and analyse the football we played to get the cup. I celebrate the fact we won the games via any and all means. The fact Gareth Southgate lifted the cup, Steve Gibson was lifted aloft and bounced around, getting covered in Champagne whilst 'Rocking All Over the World' belted out around the Millennium Stadium.

 

If I was a Liverpool fan spoiled with success (or at least grew up in a family that was), I'd maybe feel different. Maybe then I'd accept Klopp's philosophy as the one true way to go. But I support the mighty Boro and I'd love to see another Boro captain lifting a trophy, whether we're playing some of the best football to grace the Riverside turf or not.

I can see your point regarding Klopp and the money at his disposal but it hasn't stopped the likes of Eddie Howe and Nuno Santos playing entertaining football while in the Championship, so proofs in the pudding, both teams played good entertaining football and both went up doing it. Yeh its a results business but getting the result with a bit of style never hurt anyone.

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Yeah, Klopp's philosophy is fantastic for a club like Dortmund or Liverpool. And whilst I didn't see a lot of Dortmund, I've seen plenty of Liverpool under Klopp and they are really worth watching. But lets not forget the players and the money at his disposal to make that happen effectively. The investment has been pretty constant since he came to Liverpool. And hell, they can sustain that because of who they are. They can keep trying and keep trying at that and because of who they have, they're pretty much never going to have to worry about anything but missing out on European football.

 

If you ask me if I think entertainment is important in football in general, of course I agree. I love watching great teams of great players play great football. And yes, I love it on the off occasion we've played great football in my time as a Boro fan. But I'd also counter that and say if I was a player or a manager, and certainly as a fan, I'll take the win first and foremost. I look back on the Carling Cup we won and I don't sit and analyse the football we played to get the cup. I celebrate the fact we won the games via any and all means. The fact Gareth Southgate lifted the cup, Steve Gibson was lifted aloft and bounced around, getting covered in Champagne whilst 'Rocking All Over the World' belted out around the Millennium Stadium.

 

If I was a Liverpool fan spoiled with success (or at least grew up in a family that was), I'd maybe feel different. Maybe then I'd accept Klopp's philosophy as the one true way to go. But I support the mighty Boro and I'd love to see another Boro captain lifting a trophy, whether we're playing some of the best football to grace the Riverside turf or not.

I can see your point regarding Klopp and the money at his disposal but it hasn't stopped the likes of Eddie Howe and Nuno Santos playing entertaining football while in the Championship, so proofs in the pudding, both teams played good entertaining football and both went up doing it. Yeh its a results business but getting the result with a bit of style never hurt anyone.

 

Add Brendan Rodgers' Swansea to that list too.

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Yeah, Klopp's philosophy is fantastic for a club like Dortmund or Liverpool. And whilst I didn't see a lot of Dortmund, I've seen plenty of Liverpool under Klopp and they are really worth watching. But lets not forget the players and the money at his disposal to make that happen effectively. The investment has been pretty constant since he came to Liverpool. And hell, they can sustain that because of who they are. They can keep trying and keep trying at that and because of who they have, they're pretty much never going to have to worry about anything but missing out on European football.

 

If you ask me if I think entertainment is important in football in general, of course I agree. I love watching great teams of great players play great football. And yes, I love it on the off occasion we've played great football in my time as a Boro fan. But I'd also counter that and say if I was a player or a manager, and certainly as a fan, I'll take the win first and foremost. I look back on the Carling Cup we won and I don't sit and analyse the football we played to get the cup. I celebrate the fact we won the games via any and all means. The fact Gareth Southgate lifted the cup, Steve Gibson was lifted aloft and bounced around, getting covered in Champagne whilst 'Rocking All Over the World' belted out around the Millennium Stadium.

 

If I was a Liverpool fan spoiled with success (or at least grew up in a family that was), I'd maybe feel different. Maybe then I'd accept Klopp's philosophy as the one true way to go. But I support the mighty Boro and I'd love to see another Boro captain lifting a trophy, whether we're playing some of the best football to grace the Riverside turf or not.

I can see your point regarding Klopp and the money at his disposal but it hasn't stopped the likes of Eddie Howe and Nuno Santos playing entertaining football while in the Championship, so proofs in the pudding, both teams played good entertaining football and both went up doing it. Yeh its a results business but getting the result with a bit of style never hurt anyone.

 

Add Brendan Rodgers' Swansea to that list too.

 

I think Watford did to a certain extent too.... and I'd say Fulham as well (and maybe Brighton more than us)?

 

I actually think that playing that way tends to stand you in better stead when you DO get promoted too. If you look at Huddersfield and Cardiff (of the more defensive ilk) I think both are really going to struggle this season. They don't score enough.

 

In the PL, it's tough to keep clean sheets. As such you're often going to have to score to even draw a game.... and OBVIOUSLY have to score to get the wins.

 

Fulham are conceding too much at the moment, but if they can sort that out (which is arguably easier to do than to become free scoring) then I reckon they should be fine.

 

 

[PS. Did anyone else notice Christie get slated on MoTD for his performance in the Fulham 1-5 ***nal game}?!

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I think that Pulis plays far more exciting football than Karanka ever did. We have been a hell of a lot better than people on here would try and have you believe this season

 

It really is crazy how differently people view football! I thought karankas football was far more entertaining to watch than pulis as we always had 2, 3, 4 players who could make something happen whereas with pulis we know how were going to get our goals 90% of the time.

 

We also had the discussion a few weeks ago about direct vs patient play and I think it really depends on what you prefer to watch as to who's management style you prefer. There's no doubt they are both conservative. But even watching us versus forest, I really liked how they played and saw shades of 15/16 us in them and it doubled down my opinion of how much worse out football is now than it was then.

 

No wrong views here but I happen to fall on the side of not being ***d with pulis ball.

 

Neverbefore - I agree with you that it's mad how different the views can be.

 

I 100% agree with Blanco, I find Pulis's football far more exciting than I ever did Karanka's..... but others are the complete opposite.

 

Like you say though, we had this discussion a few weeks ago, when I was trying to get my head around why it was that I preferred one over the other.... and I think you were right about the direct v patient play thing.

 

I think this forum drags itself down a bit though. I'd say that there's more negativity now than there was a few years ago when (IMO) the football was at least as bad. Maybe expectations are higher now, as has been mentioned.

 

However, guys like Borodane, who I always thought was quite positive before.... seems to be on a perma-downer now!

 

Having said that, one thing that is/was irritating about both AK & Pulis is how they still stay defensive, even against teams that we are WAY superior to. MAYBE switching it around week on week is too hard to do (ie. players are drilled in a certain way) but in the season we went up under AK, I went to several away games, but MK Dons, Charlton, and Bristol City all spring to mind..... where WE looked like the team at the bottom and sat back and defended against the teams who were ACTUALLY at the bottom. (And we came out of those three matches with two losses and a draw). People have been complaining a bit about Pulis doing something similar (although for me, at least we punt it forwards and get it in two the oppo's box)!! :-P

 

All very interesting.....

 

COME ON BORO!

 

Yes you are right about that, and I really hate it. I hate to loathe the way we play, but I just can't bring myself to like it atm. I was content with it under AK but after getting relegated and hiring Monk who was supposed to play more attractive football I was hoping we would go more in footsteps of Bournemouth, Watford and Wolves. Getting a manager in that actually wanted to play football. 

 

Sacking Monk was right and for a period I was fairly happy with getting Pulis because I was hoping he was experienced enough to change to managing a favourite instead of always managing the underdog where a point or a 1-0 win is more than enough most weeks. Sadly Pulis has shown to probably be too experienced and isn't able to change. It's still the lacklustre, cautios approach we saw from his teams in the Prem and he hasn't been able to add a shred of creativity. He had 3 months in the summer to recruit but has built a solid yet very unspectacular team.

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Yeah, Klopp's philosophy is fantastic for a club like Dortmund or Liverpool. And whilst I didn't see a lot of Dortmund, I've seen plenty of Liverpool under Klopp and they are really worth watching. But lets not forget the players and the money at his disposal to make that happen effectively. The investment has been pretty constant since he came to Liverpool. And hell, they can sustain that because of who they are. They can keep trying and keep trying at that and because of who they have, they're pretty much never going to have to worry about anything but missing out on European football.

 

If you ask me if I think entertainment is important in football in general, of course I agree. I love watching great teams of great players play great football. And yes, I love it on the off occasion we've played great football in my time as a Boro fan. But I'd also counter that and say if I was a player or a manager, and certainly as a fan, I'll take the win first and foremost. I look back on the Carling Cup we won and I don't sit and analyse the football we played to get the cup. I celebrate the fact we won the games via any and all means. The fact Gareth Southgate lifted the cup, Steve Gibson was lifted aloft and bounced around, getting covered in Champagne whilst 'Rocking All Over the World' belted out around the Millennium Stadium.

 

If I was a Liverpool fan spoiled with success (or at least grew up in a family that was), I'd maybe feel different. Maybe then I'd accept Klopp's philosophy as the one true way to go. But I support the mighty Boro and I'd love to see another Boro captain lifting a trophy, whether we're playing some of the best football to grace the Riverside turf or not.

I can see your point regarding Klopp and the money at his disposal but it hasn't stopped the likes of Eddie Howe and Nuno Santos playing entertaining football while in the Championship, so proofs in the pudding, both teams played good entertaining football and both went up doing it. Yeh its a results business but getting the result with a bit of style never hurt anyone.

 

Add Brendan Rodgers' Swansea to that list too.

 

I think Nuno Santos only emphasises the point of having a strong position in the transfer market, I don't think he really goes well with the counter-point.

 

But I never said teams are incapable of going up playing good football, nor have I dismissed good football from appearing here. But we brought in a manager last year who promised us good football and the club promised results from him and it fell flat on its ***. Getting the result with a bit of style never hurt anyone because they got the result, not because of the style it was done with. What hurts people is a failure to get the result regardless of the style of play a manager intends to play with, exactly like Monk.

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I think that Pulis plays far more exciting football than Karanka ever did. We have been a hell of a lot better than people on here would try and have you believe this season

 

It really is crazy how differently people view football! I thought karankas football was far more entertaining to watch than pulis as we always had 2, 3, 4 players who could make something happen whereas with pulis we know how were going to get our goals 90% of the time.

 

We also had the discussion a few weeks ago about direct vs patient play and I think it really depends on what you prefer to watch as to who's management style you prefer. There's no doubt they are both conservative. But even watching us versus forest, I really liked how they played and saw shades of 15/16 us in them and it doubled down my opinion of how much worse out football is now than it was then.

 

No wrong views here but I happen to fall on the side of not being ***d with pulis ball.

 

Neverbefore - I agree with you that it's mad how different the views can be.

 

I 100% agree with Blanco, I find Pulis's football far more exciting than I ever did Karanka's..... but others are the complete opposite.

 

Like you say though, we had this discussion a few weeks ago, when I was trying to get my head around why it was that I preferred one over the other.... and I think you were right about the direct v patient play thing.

 

I think this forum drags itself down a bit though. I'd say that there's more negativity now than there was a few years ago when (IMO) the football was at least as bad. Maybe expectations are higher now, as has been mentioned.

 

However, guys like Borodane, who I always thought was quite positive before.... seems to be on a perma-downer now!

 

Having said that, one thing that is/was irritating about both AK & Pulis is how they still stay defensive, even against teams that we are WAY superior to. MAYBE switching it around week on week is too hard to do (ie. players are drilled in a certain way) but in the season we went up under AK, I went to several away games, but MK Dons, Charlton, and Bristol City all spring to mind..... where WE looked like the team at the bottom and sat back and defended against the teams who were ACTUALLY at the bottom. (And we came out of those three matches with two losses and a draw). People have been complaining a bit about Pulis doing something similar (although for me, at least we punt it forwards and get it in two the oppo's box)!! :-P

 

All very interesting.....

 

COME ON BORO!

 

Yes you are right about that, and I really hate it. I hate to loathe the way we play, but I just can't bring myself to like it atm. I was content with it under AK but after getting relegated and hiring Monk who was supposed to play more attractive football I was hoping we would go more in footsteps of Bournemouth, Watford and Wolves. Getting a manager in that actually wanted to play football. 

 

Sacking Monk was right and for a period I was fairly happy with getting Pulis because I was hoping he was experienced enough to change to managing a favourite instead of always managing the underdog where a point or a 1-0 win is more than enough most weeks. Sadly Pulis has shown to probably be too experienced and isn't able to change. It's still the lacklustre, cautios approach we saw from his teams in the Prem and he hasn't been able to add a shred of creativity. He had 3 months in the summer to recruit but has built a solid yet very unspectacular team.

 

OK mate. I guess I can actually understand a bit more where you're coming from. You see, I hated the way we played under AK by mid way through the promotion season.... and I kind of couldn't bring myself to like that. Like you I was pleased when we signed Monk (which didn't really work out (could it have done with more time??)) and then we got Pulis.

 

The difference is, that like Blanco mentioned a few posts back that he thinks Pulis plays far more exciting football than Karanka ever did. I agree with that. As such, at the moment, I still find what we're doing currently an improvement.

 

However, I guess you don't BD - hence you feel so negative about it all?

 

By way of explanation.... the number of times I watched Karanka games and just wanted to get the ball forwards. At least we do that with Pulis. It's all very well having Adomah, Tomlin, Stuani, Kike (decent exciting players I agree).... but if they're all behind the ball as well, passing side to side to side to backwards, then it's not that exciting.

 

Obviously on occasion exciting stuff happened and we scored some great goals, but that happens sometimes under Pulis too.

 

I guess (perhaps) it also depends on which games we all saw.

 

Unfortunately, the bulk of games I happened to see live in the season that we went up with AK were in the spell between January and March when we were terrible. Got turned over by the likes of Bristol City, Forest, Rotherham, Blackburn and Charlton - all of whom finished comfortably in the bottom half or went down. Those and a terrible draw away to MK Dons! In SO MANY of those games we looked like the team near the bottom, playing teams at the top..... not the other way around.

 

I think those games probably seriously tainted my view!!

 

For the record, I think I enjoyed the football more the season before we went up..... although going 2-0 down in the play-off final was pretty depressing, as we NEVER seemed to come back from behind in games under AK. At least with Pulis we've come back from behind a few times (including cups games).

 

Like Neverbefore said: "No wrong views here but I happen to fall on the side of not being ***d with pulis ball"......

 

I just happen to fall on the side of enjoying Pulisball more than Karankaball - which is lucky for me (currently) I suppose!!!

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Whether Pulisball or Karankaball is most exciting doesn't really matter to me. Fact is I don't like watching Pulis' brand of football and if I wasn't a Boro supporter there is no way I would tune in to watch us play. I watch us for the love of the club, but recently there has been very little to get excited about.

 

Granted, it's still early in the season so it's too early to predict anything and the two international breaks haven't helped and we have another next month. However I was pretty excited watching the Ipswich game in the first half. We were all over them, pressing them into mistakes and getting forward. We have it in us to play like that, so I can only assume that Pulis isn't comfortable playering that way. He'd rather conquor the ball inside our own half than to try and press the teams further up at the risk of leaving space in behind.

 

There is nothing wrong with that if that's all you know as a manager and it's a style you appreciate as a supporter. I just don't like it. It may be different when watching the game in the stands as you get more atmosphere and a better view of the entire pitch and off ball incidents. The whole matchday experience. My local team, where I'm a season card holder, plays a lot like Pulis where they defend deep and concede very few goals, and I find myself appreciating it more in the stands than watching it on TV (not really happy though, but we're not favourites so I can see why the manager plays like that), so there is certainly an element of that to it.

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