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The Head Coach Thread.


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When our parachute payments end at the end of this season and assuming we don't get promoted, then we're going to have to address the wage bill. The prospect of cutting the wage bill doesn't concern me in the slightest as a pretty large section of our wage bill is getting taken up massively inefficiently, largely due to the signing decisions made prior to this season. Cutting the wage bill doesn't have to end in such a difficult hiatus as the job Mowbray had to do. I'd revel in the fact of us moving towards more of a project of building a team instead of throwing big money at players who think they're doing us a favour being here. I don't feel particularly connected to the team with how it has been assembled expensively and unwisely. The team spirit just isn't there. Our recruitment through the time in the championship under Mowbray and Karanka was on the whole very good as we built a very good squad for not a great deal of money (taking out the Rhodes and Downing splurges).

 

The budget and wages assigned to Braithwaite and Assombalonga can be spent a whole lot wiser, so I wouldn't be bothered in the slightest if they left. Leadbitter and Downing are on the decline and are on big contracts that are expiring so I'd happily see them leave also. Fletcher, Johnson and Gestede don't add anything to us either. Additionally, we have lots of loan players like Batth, McQueen, Besic and Hugill who will be off our wage bill next also. That's a hell of a budget that we, with an adequate recruitment team, should be able to spend so much more wisely. The financial comparison between post-Strachan and next Summer aren't comparable as we're far better placed now. I've been saying this ever since we've been promoted, but we're one very good Summer transfer window away from turning things around.

 

We have lots of saleable assets to help fund a rebuild, and a very good mix of academy and young players who could thrive with greater responsibility like Fry, Wing, Tavernier and Chapman who are all good level Championship players - though Chapman has injury problems.

 

So in summary, the wage bill coming down shouldn't be a concern for the future. We're not in this mess because we didn't spend enough. We're in the position because we spent our money ridiculously inefficiently. With the right manager in place next season the future can still be promising. There are countless examples of Championship teams becoming more streamlined after trimming their budgets and still achieving promotion - Norwich this season seem to be the latest.

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seriously mate, it's done.  I think everyone gets your opinions on this...but The club/Gibson have made the decision they are entitled to make, time to move on. you can be angry at the club

FWIW -The Chinese discussions with Gibson were centered more towards Bulkhaul and Rockcliffe. Despite what was said in the media the talks were primary regarding club sponsorship and hotel owners

I don't know whether you've noticed this or not but you have a tendency to recommend Danish people for various things. 

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When our parachute payments end at the end of this season and assuming we don't get promoted, then we're going to have to address the wage bill. The prospect of cutting the wage bill doesn't concern me in the slightest as a pretty large section of our wage bill is getting taken up massively inefficiently, largely due to the signing decisions made prior to this season. Cutting the wage bill doesn't have to end in such a difficult hiatus as the job Mowbray had to do. I'd revel in the fact of us moving towards more of a project of building a team instead of throwing big money at players who think they're doing us a favour being here. I don't feel particularly connected to the team with how it has been assembled expensively and unwisely. The team spirit just isn't there. Our recruitment through the time in the championship under Mowbray and Karanka was on the whole very good as we built a very good squad for not a great deal of money (taking out the Rhodes and Downing splurges).

 

The budget and wages assigned to Braithwaite and Assombalonga can be spent a whole lot wiser, so I wouldn't be bothered in the slightest if they left. Leadbitter and Downing are on the decline and are on big contracts that are expiring so I'd happily see them leave also. Fletcher, Johnson and Gestede don't add anything to us either. Additionally, we have lots of loan players like Batth, McQueen, Besic and Hugill who will be off our wage bill next also. That's a hell of a budget that we, with an adequate recruitment team, should be able to spend so much more wisely. The financial comparison between post-Strachan and next Summer aren't comparable as we're far better placed now. I've been saying this ever since we've been promoted, but we're one very good Summer transfer window away from turning things around.

 

We have lots of saleable assets to help fund a rebuild, and a very good mix of academy and young players who could thrive with greater responsibility like Fry, Wing, Tavernier and Chapman who are all good level Championship players - though Chapman has injury problems.

 

So in summary, the wage bill coming down shouldn't be a concern for the future. We're not in this mess because we didn't spend enough. We're in the position because we spent our money ridiculously inefficiently. With the right manager in place next season the future can still be promising. There are countless examples of Championship teams becoming more streamlined after trimming their budgets and still achieving promotion - Norwich this season seem to be the latest.

 

I agree with all of that, most of the players you've mentioned won't be a great loss and it is possible to challenge at the top with a moderate budget.

 

The important thing at the end of the season is to appoint a manager with contacts in the game who can pick up bargains in the transfer market. Lampard is an example of this at Derby where he's managed to get some good players in on loan. Or, we could look at a foreign manager and look to pick some bargains up on the continent.

 

Unfortunately, while all this sounds good in theory the reality is we'll probably end up with Woodgate in charge and the same useless recruitment team at the club. To succeed on a limited budget you've got to recruit really well and this is obviously the area we consistently struggle with.

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Getting rid of these players should make the wagebudget look a hell of a lot better regardless of which division we are in next season.

 

Downing

Leadbitter

Gestede

Braithwaite

Besic

Hugill

Batth

Johnson

 

That’s probably more than 250k every week on players we should easily replace with better and cheaper players.

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It only works if you can get rid of players . Those on long term contracts are perfectly entitled to the money . We saw with the likes of Macdonald under mogga that wanting rid and getting rid are two different things

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Reviewing Pulis statement in the Gazette we can expect whole sale changes. We need change more so with the backroom staff than field but my worry is Pulis long term plan of 4 to 5 years. Two things bother me. At my age I don't know if I'll be around in 4 to 5 years and assuming we still have a club would we be worth watching with Puils still in charge. His plan is to scout gems around £200,000 improve and sell on which tells me we are destined to stay in the championship. Reasoning I can't see a £200,000 players succeeding in the Premier. I guess he believes no one else has thought of the idea or we will be better at finding these gems.

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Reviewing Pulis statement in the Gazette we can expect whole sale changes. We need change more so with the backroom staff than field but my worry is Pulis long term plan of 4 to 5 years. Two things bother me. At my age I don't know if I'll be around in 4 to 5 years and assuming we still have a club would we be worth watching with Puils still in charge. His plan is to scout gems around £200,000 improve and sell on which tells me we are destined to stay in the championship. Reasoning I can't see a £200,000 players succeeding in the Premier. I guess he believes no one else has thought of the idea or we will be better at finding these gems.

 

I don't think he thinks no one else has thought of the idea, it's more a case of that's exactly how everyone else apart from the big/rich teams operate and we're still out there looking for the next Wagner Love to be linked with for £15m on deadline day.

 

I'm looking forward to the 'wholesale changes' tbh, we need it.

 

Not sure how old you are to be thinking in such fatalistic terms, but surely you'd be happy to go out knowing that the club had a good plan and a solid foundation for the future, rather than just on the same old quick fix mentality that we've had post-McClaren.

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Reviewing Pulis statement in the Gazette we can expect whole sale changes. We need change more so with the backroom staff than field but my worry is Pulis long term plan of 4 to 5 years. Two things bother me. At my age I don't know if I'll be around in 4 to 5 years and assuming we still have a club would we be worth watching with Puils still in charge. His plan is to scout gems around £200,000 improve and sell on which tells me we are destined to stay in the championship. Reasoning I can't see a £200,000 players succeeding in the Premier. I guess he believes no one else has thought of the idea or we will be better at finding these gems.

 

I don't think he thinks no one else has thought of the idea, it's more a case of that's exactly how everyone else apart from the big/rich teams operate and we're still out there looking for the next Wagner Love to be linked with for £15m on deadline day.

 

I'm looking forward to the 'wholesale changes' tbh, we need it.

 

Not sure how old you are to be thinking in such fatalistic terms, but surely you'd be happy to go out knowing that the club had a good plan and a solid foundation for the future, rather than just on the same old quick fix mentality that we've had post-McClaren.

 

What is the plan, apart from balancing the books that is?

 

What is going to be our identity going forward because I don't see one?

 

We don't look to be a club that will give youth a chance when we have 2 good young lads being kept out of the team by the likes of Downing.

 

We're certainly not gonna have a philosophy of playing attractive football while Pulis is anywhere near the place.

 

Id love to know what the long term plan is, it's easy to say we'll buy players in for peanuts and sell them for millions. As previously mentioned who doesn't want to do that. Actions speak louder than words, if we want to become a club that can find and identify up and coming players then I'd expect to see changes in the recruitment department at the club (which he haven't), until then it's just spin coming out of Pulis.

 

If money was so tight that makes last summer's signings even more baffling.

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Reviewing Pulis statement in the Gazette we can expect whole sale changes. We need change more so with the backroom staff than field but my worry is Pulis long term plan of 4 to 5 years. Two things bother me. At my age I don't know if I'll be around in 4 to 5 years and assuming we still have a club would we be worth watching with Puils still in charge. His plan is to scout gems around £200,000 improve and sell on which tells me we are destined to stay in the championship. Reasoning I can't see a £200,000 players succeeding in the Premier. I guess he believes no one else has thought of the idea or we will be better at finding these gems.

 

I don't think he thinks no one else has thought of the idea, it's more a case of that's exactly how everyone else apart from the big/rich teams operate and we're still out there looking for the next Wagner Love to be linked with for £15m on deadline day.

 

I'm looking forward to the 'wholesale changes' tbh, we need it.

 

Not sure how old you are to be thinking in such fatalistic terms, but surely you'd be happy to go out knowing that the club had a good plan and a solid foundation for the future, rather than just on the same old quick fix mentality that we've had post-McClaren.

 

What is the plan, apart from balancing the books that is?

 

What is going to be our identity going forward because I don't see one?

 

We don't look to be a club that will give youth a chance when we have 2 good young lads being kept out of the team by the likes of Downing.

 

We're certainly not gonna have a philosophy of playing attractive football while Pulis is anywhere near the place.

 

Id love to know what the long term plan is, it's easy to say we'll buy players in for peanuts and sell them for millions. As previously mentioned who doesn't want to do that. Actions speak louder than words, if we want to become a club that can find and identify up and coming players then I'd expect to see changes in the recruitment department at the club (which he haven't), until then it's just spin coming out of Pulis.

 

If money was so tight that makes last summer's signings even more baffling.

 

given our famed history of doing this....!

 

Well as far as I can see you've essentially outlined the plan by explaining what you don't understand about it. Money is clearly always an issue for us, even more so when we're not in the Prem - the previous mentality of spending loads on 'big name' players isn't one we can realistically sustain, so we need to adjust how we operate.

 

Our scouting has always been crap, I remember Tony Mowbray talking about how bad it was when he first came in - we looked to sort that by bringing Orta in, but obviously that went bad, so I can only assume we drifted back to bad habits. That's another area TP has mentioned he wants to sort out.

 

TP has also mentioned that the club was treating the academy as being entirely separate to the first team, and he's set about bringing the two closer together. So that's another strategy.

 

I'm sure there are other areas that are getting looked at too

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given our famed history of doing this....!

 

Well as far as I can see you've essentially outlined the plan by explaining what you don't understand about it. Money is clearly always an issue for us, even more so when we're not in the Prem - the previous mentality of spending loads on 'big name' players isn't one we can realistically sustain, so we need to adjust how we operate.

 

Our scouting has always been crap, I remember Tony Mowbray talking about how bad it was when he first came in - we looked to sort that by bringing Orta in, but obviously that went bad, so I can only assume we drifted back to bad habits. That's another area TP has mentioned he wants to sort out.

 

TP has also mentioned that the club was treating the academy as being entirely separate to the first team, and he's set about bringing the two closer together. So that's another strategy.

I'm sure there are other areas that are getting looked at too

 

Out of interest what makes you think Tony Pulis is the man to do this?

 

Off the top of my head I can't think of one player at any of Stoke/Palace or West Brom that he either bought for peanuts and sold on for mega bucks, or brought through the youth academy and sold on for huge sums of money.

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What Pulis says is not wrong relating to the club. We have been run appallingly for some time. However, I just fundamentally don’t believe a word that fraudster says (mods - it was proven in court so no need to remove!). He has a history of lying and (as pointed out) his actions are entirely inconsistent with what he has said. How anyone thinks he is working in the best interest of the club is beyond me - he is thinking of Tony Pulis and that alone. There is a different excuse every week and it is never his fault (according to himself), he constantly throws players under the bus (especially youth players) and he treats the fans like idiots in claiming we only need to take our chances (what ***ing chances?) . It could be said for every team that loses - had Ipswich taken their chances they would have won on Saturday! It’s dumb, lazy and shows no respect to the fans. #pulisout

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well we don't really know, but never-the-less, he's the man doing it. These are changes he wants, not ones the club has initiated and brought him in to do. Gibson would probably be out looking for Afonso Alves' agent's number otherwise, to see if he had any other new prospects.

 

At the end of the day, TP's a vastly experienced and respected manager - and despite what you might think of him, he does have a good track record. He's also won the 'premier league manager of the year' not so long ago, in an era where if you don't manager a top 4 side, you're treated as a nobody. which is a sign that at some stage he must've known what he was doing.

 

There are far worse people to have in charge. Do you think TP would've been blindly led into spending all the cash he had available on a massively lop-sided and misfit squad like Monk was, for example.

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well we don't really know, but never-the-less, he's the man doing it. These are changes he wants, not ones the club has initiated and brought him in to do. Gibson would probably be out looking for Afonso Alves' agent's number otherwise, to see if he had any other new prospects.

 

At the end of the day, TP's a vastly experienced and respected manager - and despite what you might think of him, he does have a good track record. He's also won the 'premier league manager of the year' not so long ago, in an era where if you don't manager a top 4 side, you're treated as a nobody. which is a sign that at some stage he must've known what he was doing.

 

There are far worse people to have in charge. Do you think TP would've been blindly led into spending all the cash he had available on a massively lop-sided and misfit squad like Monk was, for example.

 

Do you mean by signing additional centre midfielders and defenders in areas where we were already well stocked and not getting any wide players?? Well, now you mention it...

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well we don't really know, but never-the-less, he's the man doing it. These are changes he wants, not ones the club has initiated and brought him in to do. Gibson would probably be out looking for Afonso Alves' agent's number otherwise, to see if he had any other new prospects.

 

At the end of the day, TP's a vastly experienced and respected manager - and despite what you might think of him, he does have a good track record. He's also won the 'premier league manager of the year' not so long ago, in an era where if you don't manager a top 4 side, you're treated as a nobody. which is a sign that at some stage he must've known what he was doing.

 

There are far worse people to have in charge. Do you think TP would've been blindly led into spending all the cash he had available on a massively lop-sided and misfit squad like Monk was, for example.

 

Do you mean by signing additional centre midfielders and defenders in areas where we were already well stocked and not getting any wide players?? Well, now you mention it...

 

it's a pretty tired and boring argument you're falling back on there.

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well we don't really know, but never-the-less, he's the man doing it. These are changes he wants, not ones the club has initiated and brought him in to do. Gibson would probably be out looking for Afonso Alves' agent's number otherwise, to see if he had any other new prospects.

 

At the end of the day, TP's a vastly experienced and respected manager - and despite what you might think of him, he does have a good track record. He's also won the 'premier league manager of the year' not so long ago, in an era where if you don't manager a top 4 side, you're treated as a nobody. which is a sign that at some stage he must've known what he was doing.

 

There are far worse people to have in charge. Do you think TP would've been blindly led into spending all the cash he had available on a massively lop-sided and misfit squad like Monk was, for example.

 

Do you mean by signing additional centre midfielders and defenders in areas where we were already well stocked and not getting any wide players?? Well, now you mention it...

 

it's a pretty tired and boring argument you're falling back on there.

 

It’s pretty relevant though. Just in the last window he did very little right and a lot of things wrong. If he is here to oversee the recruitment then he failed miserably just 5 months ago. And if players were signed without him condoning it then he doesn’t really have a job to oversee changes.

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