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Investment Rumours. Reality or Red Bull S***?

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I cant believe the thread has managed to grow but I guess kept in the dark and fed sh@t mushrooms thrive. I’ll say it if others won’t, Newcastle can’t find a buyer and they are a far better investment than us, there you go said it. Investors have far better options to profit than a run down town with a depressed club or possibly some think rich people have a affection for the club. The only good football clubs are for is to write off tax from other investments. Apart from the club SG has hospitality and property that may well be of interest to investors but again it’s just speculation. I’ll state this, if investors are making choices it would be done with utmost secrecy. If the thread is simply a distraction from our @@@@ football I can understand

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Can we not turn this into a ‘why would anyone buy us’ thread please? Such an annoying and small time question.

 

Pretty pertinent question though. I think Leon’s made some great points in that post, which would put some potential buyers off. I’m not saying no one would buy us, but I think as a Boro fan some lose objectivity in thinking that we’re a lot more attractive than we actually are.

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I cant believe the thread has managed to grow but I guess kept in the dark and fed sh@t mushrooms thrive. I’ll say it if others won’t, Newcastle can’t find a buyer and they are a far better investment than us, there you go said it. Investors have far better options to profit than a run down town with a depressed club or possibly some think rich people have a affection for the club. The only good football clubs are for is to write off tax from other investments. Apart from the club SG has hospitality and property that may well be of interest to investors but again it’s just speculation. I’ll state this, if investors are making choices it would be done with utmost secrecy. If the thread is simply a distraction from our @@@@ football I can understand

 

Newcastle can find buyers, Ashley just keeps moving the goalposts when he gets close to a sale and lobbing another £100m on the price tag. He hasn’t sold them because no one will spend £400m for them. At the right price of course they’re a much better investment than us. They’re fan base is easily four times the size of ours, with a massive stadium in a big, thriving city.

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Without putting too much of a downer on the discussion...while some investment and some kind of longer term strategy of where we're going / how we're going to play would be nice... I can't see how we're an attractive investment opportunity?  We've got a decent profile from our time in the UEFA Cup and we've got excellent facilities, but there's a definite ceiling to what a club of our size can do in business terms.

 

We've got one of the lowest local populations in the Championship, I think only Preston would be similar or less going on catchment.  Yes, we don't have any direct competition from other clubs but we also don't have a large number of potential supporters to tap into.  An investor is going to want a club that they can build and maximise their return on, not a club that will drain it's only available market and then they have to put millions of £'s in every month as Gibson has done for long periods at a time.

 

The catchment we do have is generally lower income households and we have one of the highest unemployment rates in the country, so there isn't a pile of disposable income sitting around to be spent on season tickets and merchandise.

 

The stadium is relatively modern so that's a plus, but the council didn't support the club at all with any mutual development of the area.  It was sat on its own in a piece of wasteland for 20+ years before they started developing the land around it.  If you were a potential buyer would you have any faith that the council are going to back you in any investment when they can't even convince the unused supermarket to open their carpark for matchdays?

 

We've got a lot of value (money spent!) in the current squad, so that's a plus.  We've also got a good history of big name signings so that helps our profile and brand.  The downside these days is that it's so much harder to get big name players to sign for clubs like us.  They want to be in the Premier League, they want to be challenging for Europe, they want to be in or near big cities.  Maybe that's a plus to an investor as we're more likely to get players who want to work hard and earn a move to a big club, rather than mercenaries coming to sit in the squad and collect a wage.

 

I'd love to see some investment and fresh approach as I think Gibson seems to have lost his motivation in recent years, but I think we've got to be careful about getting our hopes up.  A foreign investor isn't going to be prepared to chuck endless amounts of money at a club without getting any return and I'm not sure if we're going to be a viable investment.  There's probably a dozen or more clubs in the Champ/League One who would look better than us in terms of maximising returns.

 

Fortunately the catchment and fan base have very little effect on profitability, as getting into the prem provides far more tv money than we could make on the gate. Not all investors are after an obvious profit - Red Bull for example uses it as a marketing stunt, some arafter the positive PR or high profile (abramovich at Chelsea) and some have more money than sense (city’s owners).

 

Our infrastructure is very well developed, with little need for further stadium expansion or money into youth or training facilities. We also have a good record with the youth team and a grade I academy, which is attractive for new owners wanting to set up a longer term model.

 

The players we have on the books at the moment have some resale value but high wages, so Gibson will be looking to shift some early in the window if anything is happening. The end of the parachute payments is also not a good thing for new investors.

 

Overall I think we are not actually an unattractive target, but that is very much dependent on the type of owner. Weirdly, I think the clubs situation will actually be good for stopping bids from those seeking a quick buck.

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I cant believe the thread has managed to grow but I guess kept in the dark and fed sh@t mushrooms thrive. I’ll say it if others won’t, Newcastle can’t find a buyer and they are a far better investment than us, there you go said it. Investors have far better options to profit than a run down town with a depressed club or possibly some think rich people have a affection for the club. The only good football clubs are for is to write off tax from other investments. Apart from the club SG has hospitality and property that may well be of interest to investors but again it’s just speculation. I’ll state this, if investors are making choices it would be done with utmost secrecy. If the thread is simply a distraction from our @@@@ football I can understand

 

Newcastles situation isnt really relevant to us in any way. The asking price for them is about 400 million so we would be looking at a completely different set of potential buyers if there was any actual investment.

 

 

Dont get why some people are so averse to talking about rumours, So what if its not true? Theres no harm done is there?

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Without putting too much of a downer on the discussion...while some investment and some kind of longer term strategy of where we're going / how we're going to play would be nice... I can't see how we're an attractive investment opportunity?  We've got a decent profile from our time in the UEFA Cup and we've got excellent facilities, but there's a definite ceiling to what a club of our size can do in business terms.

 

We've got one of the lowest local populations in the Championship, I think only Preston would be similar or less going on catchment.  Yes, we don't have any direct competition from other clubs but we also don't have a large number of potential supporters to tap into.  An investor is going to want a club that they can build and maximise their return on, not a club that will drain it's only available market and then they have to put millions of £'s in every month as Gibson has done for long periods at a time.

 

The catchment we do have is generally lower income households and we have one of the highest unemployment rates in the country, so there isn't a pile of disposable income sitting around to be spent on season tickets and merchandise.

 

The stadium is relatively modern so that's a plus, but the council didn't support the club at all with any mutual development of the area.  It was sat on its own in a piece of wasteland for 20+ years before they started developing the land around it.  If you were a potential buyer would you have any faith that the council are going to back you in any investment when they can't even convince the unused supermarket to open their carpark for matchdays?

 

We've got a lot of value (money spent!) in the current squad, so that's a plus.  We've also got a good history of big name signings so that helps our profile and brand.  The downside these days is that it's so much harder to get big name players to sign for clubs like us.  They want to be in the Premier League, they want to be challenging for Europe, they want to be in or near big cities.  Maybe that's a plus to an investor as we're more likely to get players who want to work hard and earn a move to a big club, rather than mercenaries coming to sit in the squad and collect a wage.

 

I'd love to see some investment and fresh approach as I think Gibson seems to have lost his motivation in recent years, but I think we've got to be careful about getting our hopes up.  A foreign investor isn't going to be prepared to chuck endless amounts of money at a club without getting any return and I'm not sure if we're going to be a viable investment.  There's probably a dozen or more clubs in the Champ/League One who would look better than us in terms of maximising returns.

 

Fortunately the catchment and fan base have very little effect on profitability, as getting into the prem provides far more tv money than we could make on the gate. Not all investors are after an obvious profit - Red Bull for example uses it as a marketing stunt, some arafter the positive PR or high profile (abramovich at Chelsea) and some have more money than sense (city’s owners).

 

Our infrastructure is very well developed, with little need for further stadium expansion or money into youth or training facilities. We also have a good record with the youth team and a grade I academy, which is attractive for new owners wanting to set up a longer term model.

 

The players we have on the books at the moment have some resale value but high wages, so Gibson will be looking to shift some early in the window if anything is happening. The end of the parachute payments is also not a good thing for new investors.

 

Overall I think we are not actually an unattractive target, but that is very much dependent on the type of owner. Weirdly, I think the clubs situation will actually be good for stopping bids from those seeking a quick buck.

 

To add to thise points, Red Bull teams don't usually go for big name signings, they develop youth. We have excellent facilities and prospects in this area.

 

They prioritise exciting play, which will instantly make us more attractive to signings if they do decide to change tact and try to buy success _ not that I think they will, they'll stick to their tried and tested business model.

 

RBs scouting teams are also top notch at spotting young talent and making a profit on them, so I don't think they'll need to worry about pumping money into the club when its being ran correctly and purchasing old cloggers on huge contracts isn't happening every window.

 

We've all seen that the Riverside can be full, bouncing and, dare I say it, probably an intimidating place to be for an away team when the Boro are playing nice football and on top form.

 

Not that you'd need the money if you could survive your first season in the Prem.

 

We have the basis of a good, youthful team and I'm sure RB are thinking with the right additions, management and philosophy we could easily be challenging for best of the rest in 3/4 years

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Buying Boro outright probably costs 100million at very most. That's 300 million less than Newcastle.

 

It's then about promotion. If it costs 50 million to get us promoted they are still 250mill in pocket.

 

From there it's about sustainability.

 

The gate receipts at Newcastle are probably 20 million more than at Boro (based on 20000 more season tickets at a grand each). It's peanuts compared to the TV money.

 

Newcastle doesn't seem like a club RB would look at anyway. Look at the club's they are currently part of. They didn't buy the biggest teams with the biggest stadiums. They bought projects.

 

If not true then it's a shame. If only because I would rather 11 hungry youngsters than the fertilizer we are watching every week currently.

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I don't get the Newcastle comparison either. They're a bigger club - sorry but they are - with a much larger price tag. Plus, can you imagine having to negotiate with Ashley while he voms into a fireplace and all his minions cackle with glee?

 

We have all the basic infrastructure required to be a solid PL club, as we proved in the Noughties. Great academy, one-club town, modern stadium which wouldn't require much investment, strong community links to a passionate (if currently rather grumpy) fanbase, and a couple of years in Europe which will have put us on the international map.

 

If you strip out the current manager and much of the existing squad (which are the easiest parts to replace over time), MFC would be a great investment at a decent price. I doubt anyone could stay in a suite at Rockliffe, tour the academy and look round the stadium and not be impressed with the club's potential.

 

Were Wolves better than us when they were acquired and turned into a solid PL team? Or Man City, who'd been in the third tier a few years earlier and had to compete with the 'world's biggest club' across town? Or Leicester, which is surrounded by nicer cities and more famous football teams?

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Buying Boro outright probably costs 100million at very most. That's 300 million less than Newcastle.

 

It's then about promotion. If it costs 50 million to get us promoted they are still 250mill in pocket.

 

From there it's about sustainability.

 

The gate receipts at Newcastle are probably 20 million more than at Boro (based on 20000 more season tickets at a grand each). It's peanuts compared to the TV money.

 

Newcastle doesn't seem like a club RB would look at anyway. Look at the club's they are currently part of. They didn't buy the biggest teams with the biggest stadiums. They bought projects.

 

If not true then it's a shame. If only because I would rather 11 hungry youngsters than the fertilizer we are watching every week currently.

 

I don't think this is necessarily true figures wise as there are no guarantees of promotion. If I were an investor, a club like Newcastle are a safer option and the cost reflects that. If you were a global company, you want a guaranteed return for that money.

 

Investing in Boro over a PL team is a high risk/high yield proposition. Any team in the PL (and that are not getting relegated) is a safer investment. Boro are an gamble at this stage. Is a big corporation going to take us on especially when you cite the excellent comments made by Leon?

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‘A club like Newcastle are a safer option’

 

Are they really? £400m, for that you get a huge wage bill and a squad being kept up because they managed to keep Rafa.

 

So take that £400m, add an extra £80m for the wage bill and an extra £40/50/60m for new players.

 

By the time you start the season you’ve already committed around £600m.

 

Buy us and you can get access to the prem money for less than £100m if your clever.

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‘A club like Newcastle are a safer option’

 

Are they really? £400m, for that you get a huge wage bill and a squad being kept up because they managed to keep Rafa.

 

So take that £400m, add an extra £80m for the wage bill and an extra £40/50/60m for new players.

 

By the time you start the season you’ve already committed around £600m.

 

Buy us and you can get access to the prem money for less than £100m if your clever.

 

I feel like you've answered your own question a bit there "if you're clever". It isn't a done deal hence why it is a safer option.  

 

if you do it right, PL clubs are a lot easier to be profitable quicker than any Championship clubs.

 

Also, next year, are Newcastle (for example) going to have a better or worse squad than someone like Norwich, Brighton etc? 

 

How much money is it going to cost to keep Norwich in the PL next year? Newcastle have already bridged that financial gap. They are now an "established" PL side.

 

I know it hurts because the example we are using is Newcastle, but if i were an investor, Newcastle are a safer, more commercially viable in the short term option with known costs. 

 

Any Boro costs are purely speculative hence high risk.

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We will always be more attractive than them Geordie ***ars .. Just look at them, right? Notch notch, know what I mean, say no more...

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newcastle have a massive fanbase. biggest outside manchester and liverpool in the north. i'm sure if an oil barron can make man city (a smaller club) about the best team in europe. someone could do it investing in newcastle.

 

we are a different level to them its just plain truth.

 

our potential was exposed during the europe exploits. we struggled to fill the ground because of the extra costs forced on the smaller fanbase. without the fanbase any potential will be limited. mind you i think we could easy fill out our stadium again given a bit of success. just as long as the club dont make season ticket prices high. like the hike a few years ago. put off loads of my mates getting a ST. nobody wants to be ripped off round here.

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I think the time has come for Gibson to look for outward investment,hence Kenyons involvement.

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