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Summer Transfer Window 2019/20 Season


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9 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

Yeah If you look at the signings we made last year they all have pulis's fingerprints all over them. So I'd say well see a significant change in the kind of players we bring in. The methods behind the signing of these players may not change but the type of player certainly will.

Even McNair who he never played and Flint who we tried to sign a year earlier?   There's no way that the signings we've made have all been on the say so of whichever manager was there at the time.  We brought in players Gibson wanted, we brought in players the recruitment guys wanted and yes we brought in players the head coach/managers wanted.  We'll see what happens when we begin making signings beyond ex Boro players.

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SDS, it’s Dijksteel at Rockliffe

For all those asking about these 4 players at rockcliffe just before weekend. I have done some digging appears it was bola Browne and 2 premiership loan players, sketchy with details but I believe the

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1 minute ago, SzilardNemethsCurtains said:

Sorry but do people genuinely think that Gibson is choosing and signing the players on his own? really? 

question mark wtf GIF

 

He wanted Downing and he wanted Rhodes.  Karanka wanted neither and we signed both anyway.

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3 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

He wanted Downing and he wanted Rhodes.  Karanka wanted neither and we signed both anyway.

Firstly there is no evidence of this, they might not have proven to be Karanka players but they were both seen as decent players at the time and I am certain Karanka still had to ok them.

In regard to signings in general, it was clearly stated in the manager conference what the plan was. The scouts will highlight players and then Woodgate, Bevington and Bausor would meet up to make their targets and then Gibson will obviously have final say in terms of the financial deal and suitability. There is no conspiracy, Gibson hasn't suddenly turned into a dictator

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Karanka admits he was stunned when chairman Steve Gibson told him he had signed Rhodes, after a 24 hour dispute over wage demands had been resolved on Monday. The fee will rise to £13m if Boro are promoted to the Premier League.

“I can’t say more good things about the chairman than I have in the past,” added Karanka, who was Jose Mourinho’s assistant manager at Real Madrid. “When you are not expecting anything more, he arrives with Jordan Rhodes and you can’t say no.

“I can understand how jealous other managers are of me because I am here. At the start of January 31, I had my squad completely perfect, and then he arrived on the last day with Jordan Rhodes. For that reason, what can I say about him once again?”

I dunno how anyone can gleam from this that Karanka was in the dark about the Rhodes signing, he was clearly pleased but just admitting his surprise as he thought like all of us that the deal had collapsed.

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1 minute ago, Changing Times said:

Karanka didn't want either of them.  He didn't want Gestede and Bamford in that January transfer window either.  Crack on and believe what you like though ?

 

Based on what? Because it suits your narrative? Because he didnt play them every game? Just because they werent always automatic starters doesnt mean that he didnt okay the transfers. 

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8 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

Based on what? Because it suits your narrative? Because he didnt play them every game? Just because they werent always automatic starters doesnt mean that he didnt okay the transfers. 

Exactly, let's just accept fan theory over quotes taken at the time

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Tbf he's hardly going to say Oh no I didn't want this player at all, it wasn't my decision to sign him to the media whether it's true or false

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50 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

Based on what? Because it suits your narrative? Because he didnt play them every game? Just because they werent always automatic starters doesnt mean that he didnt okay the transfers. 

Yes, because it suits my narrative ?

If you guys have a look you will also find some quotes where he says that Gestede was his number one target in that January transfer window just after we signed him.  And because he said it in the media it is therefore true ?

However a week or two later on January 31st he also said:

"We need to improve the team and the club knew a month and a half ago the players that I wanted.  I always said the the aim in the transfer window was to improve the squad.  At the moment we haven't done that.  We will be disappointed if nobody else comes in but I have tried my best.  Teams in our position are signing players for £14m - we are signing players that didn't play in the Championship.  I don't know why we haven't signed our targets.  That is not my job.  I am the coach.  When we got promotion last season, there were a lot of people who got a medal.  A lot of people had a medal and a lot of people had done their job.  Now?  I don't know....With this group of players, the only thing I can do is trust and believe"

A ringing endorsement there if ever there was one for the work we did in the transfer window ?  Sorry, not we, he, because he absolutely definitely 100% wanted those players and there can be no doubt about that because right after we signed them he said some nice things in the media and that's such an unusual thing for a manager to do.  Umm, right? ? 

A couple of weeks later however he seems to be saying something else.  I mean he seems to be saying that he didn't actually want those players and he wanted different players who we didn't sign.  He seems to be trying to distance himself from our activity in that transfer window because he is unhappy with it.  However that cannot possibly be true because he got the players he wanted and yet he doesn't feel that the squad has been improved.  So he really really really wanted these players but at the same time he didn't think that they would improve the squad?  Weird that.  He was a complex fella though our Aitor.  However I do wonder if there are other possible reasons that an employee may publicly go along with his bosses' wishes and tow the party line?  It's a puzzle ?

Gibson wanted Downing.  Gibson wanted to bring him back here and make a statement about his and our ambitions.  Karanka went along with it because if the fella who is paying your wages wants something then that's what you do.  Karanka also comes from a footballing culture where coaches often have little or no say on transfers so it wasn't exactly an unusual situation for him.  By the end of January 2017 however Karanka was close to having had enough and was clearly *** off with a number of things and actually said what he thought.  And what he thought was that we'd signed players who didn't improve the squad, who clearly weren't the players that he wanted and he wanted to make it absolutely clear to everyone that he had nothing to do with it.

Like I said, if you want to believe something else then crack on.  Ignorance is bliss apparently.

 

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That Karanka quote ? 

Still angers me that the club seemed to accept relegation in only January, only needed a 1-2 key signings and we could've stayed up

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2 hours ago, Changing Times said:

 

Yes, because it suits my narrative ?

If you guys have a look you will also find some quotes where he says that Gestede was his number one target in that January transfer window just after we signed him.  And because he said it in the media it is therefore true ?

However a week or two later on January 31st he also said:

"We need to improve the team and the club knew a month and a half ago the players that I wanted.  I always said the the aim in the transfer window was to improve the squad.  At the moment we haven't done that.  We will be disappointed if nobody else comes in but I have tried my best.  Teams in our position are signing players for £14m - we are signing players that didn't play in the Championship.  I don't know why we haven't signed our targets.  That is not my job.  I am the coach.  When we got promotion last season, there were a lot of people who got a medal.  A lot of people had a medal and a lot of people had done their job.  Now?  I don't know....With this group of players, the only thing I can do is trust and believe"

A ringing endorsement there if ever there was one for the work we did in the transfer window ?  Sorry, not we, he, because he absolutely definitely 100% wanted those players and there can be no doubt about that because right after we signed them he said some nice things in the media and that's such an unusual thing for a manager to do.  Umm, right? ? 

A couple of weeks later however he seems to be saying something else.  I mean he seems to be saying that he didn't actually want those players and he wanted different players who we didn't sign.  He seems to be trying to distance himself from our activity in that transfer window because he is unhappy with it.  However that cannot possibly be true because he got the players he wanted and yet he doesn't feel that the squad has been improved.  So he really really really wanted these players but at the same time he didn't think that they would improve the squad?  Weird that.  He was a complex fella though our Aitor.  However I do wonder if there are other possible reasons that an employee may publicly go along with his bosses' wishes and tow the party line?  It's a puzzle ?

Gibson wanted Downing.  Gibson wanted to bring him back here and make a statement about his and our ambitions.  Karanka went along with it because if the fella who is paying your wages wants something then that's what you do.  Karanka also comes from a footballing culture where coaches often have little or no say on transfers so it wasn't exactly an unusual situation for him.  By the end of January 2017 however Karanka was close to having had enough and was clearly *** off with a number of things and actually said what he thought.  And what he thought was that we'd signed players who didn't improve the squad, who clearly weren't the players that he wanted and he wanted to make it absolutely clear to everyone that he had nothing to do with it.

Like I said, if you want to believe something else then crack on.  Ignorance is bliss apparently.

 

*** well said, best thing I’ve ever seen you post.

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Gibson re-signed Woodgate as a player against Mowbray's wishes in 2012, the source is a member of Mowbray's backroom team. 

This was at a time when the club were having to rely on loans and free signings because 'we had no money'. 

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7 hours ago, Boro Banker said:

long term follower, first timer poster. Work in London as a Banker (I know, bring on the insults) but thought I could shed some light on the transfer financing chat from a few days ago, saw a lot of stuff that was off the mark.  Long post so apologies but here we go. 

 

football is v niche for financing and not a lot, if any, banks will fund transfers outside the very tip top (due to mismanaged clubs e.g. take your pick) there are however firms that’ll do it (see “23 Capital”) I work with corporate clients so the exact figures below may be off the mark (happy to be corrected). Where I say Bank I mean finance party not necessarily an actual bank.

 

when you sell a player and have a payment schedule you can use a bank to fund a large portion of the fee upfront. in corporates this would be 75% of the transaction value, bank then collects all the actual payments from the payer and pays the cash onto the club, net of a fee.

 

You base the facility on the credit worthiness of the buying party, this means; league income, merchandise sales, fan base, likelihood of relegation, (likelihood of dropping out of Europe if were being ambitious here)  are all taken into account.  So, with Traore to Wolves, we’d be able to get a decent amount paid up front by a financier, with Wolves getting c.£120m of league income alone 18/19, plus 3 years of parachutes if they got relegated year-1, securing 3 years of strong cashflows in a worst case. You want the league revenues, they are secured vs transfer income or gate and merchandise sales which are 1 off in nature.

 

Bamford to Leeds, not such a good story, (Leeds were the most successful Championship club at generating match-day and commercial revenue (c.£16.5m in each category), accounting for just over 80% of its total revenue 2017/18). ie if they stop selling match day tickets, or got relegated they wouldn’t be able to pay the bank as revenue would rapidly decline. You might think “Leeds aint getting relegated”, but If I’m lending to Boro based on Leeds staying in the Championship (or getting promoted) I’m not putting anywhere near £10m on that (appreciate Bamford wasn’t £10m upfront).

 

Note. I can’t see anyone financing any performance related payments, only contracted ones (again if anyone knows different happy to be corrected here, but from a credit perspective its a massive risk) 

 

Pricing would also depend on these factors, can’t see even a big transfer to a PL club going for less than 5% margins (as I said these aren’t banks financing, small boutiques, so you’re really paying for the cash here) so a mid table championship club pricing would be eye watering. 

 

Would we really try and get a £10m transfer paid upfront for a (lets say) 8% margin (number pulled out my jacksie), i.e. £800k in interest p.a.(+fees!)??? or just wait the 3 years out (again no idea if thats the payment profile). 

 

Hope thats helpful, or at least mildly interesting. 

 

Sources 

 

https://www.premierleague.com/this-is-pl/the-premier-league/final-standings

 

https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/uk/Documents/sports-business-group/deloitte-uk-annual-review-of-football-finance-2019.pdf (DECENT READ)

 

 

Firstly welcome to the forum and this has to be the longest and most informative first post ever.

Will look out for future contributions.

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