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Denzel Zanzibar

Summer Transfers & Rumours 2019 - Post Mortem

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10 minutes ago, Jamie-H said:

Here's another question that I think is reasonable to put out there, if we take Woodgate in good faith that we signed the 3 key players that he identified in his job interview then brilliant you got your men and missed out on that 1 last piece you wanted fair enough...

Then what on earth has Gary Gill and the scouting team been doing all summer? Is Woodgate our new manager and head scout going forward?

Jack Charlton dismantled our scouting network, Pulis seemed to ignore it completely, Aitor shaped it, Mogga tried to build a scouting network post Strachan I would think Woodgate would be more Mogga than Pulis but I'm quite worried 3 names on a piece of paper in June appears the limit of the imagination. We built a state of the art scouting room and network under Karanka after promotion ever since then it seems no ones bothered to use the thing is it a supply closet by now I have no idea.

I do find it amazing for season's after season the club haven't been able to identify a winger in the whole of world football that is quality, affordable and most importantly would love to play for the Boro. All the while they must sit in Rockliffe getting paid for allegedly scouting a global database drawing up targets for transfer windows and then when the window come's around sign three standout league 1 player's, who Woody identified. 

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@DurhamRed I think we possibly have in young Coulson to a fair degree. It would not surprise me if he is used in midfield once we have a full compliment of defenders

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21 minutes ago, DurhamRed said:

I do find it amazing for season's after season the club haven't been able to identify a winger in the whole of world football that is quality, affordable and most importantly would love to play for the Boro. All the while they must sit in Rockliffe getting paid for allegedly scouting a global database drawing up targets for transfer windows and then when the window come's around sign three standout league 1 player's, who Woody identified. 

so is that you righting off browne bola and dijksteel as league 1 fodder?  

regarding the scouting network. i'm of the opinion that everyone in the game knows who the good players are.

its the young unproven lads that the scouting network earn their money highlighting, but even then you cant always get them to sign for us. then you need to get the manager to buy into their potential to. if the manager and the scouts dont really like the same type of players then you end up in the situation where pulis and monk sign what suits them.

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23 minutes ago, DurhamRed said:

I do find it amazing for season's after season the club haven't been able to identify a winger in the whole of world football that is quality, affordable and most importantly would love to play for the Boro. All the while they must sit in Rockliffe getting paid for allegedly scouting a global database drawing up targets for transfer windows and then when the window come's around sign three standout league 1 player's, who Woody identified. 

There was a screenshot of a insta post going round from someone who was a scout for us and had lost his job, just looked like some random boro lad and he was asking on the post for work aswell. Surely if he had any credentials he’d have contacts etc in the game and wouldn’t have to beg for work on social media.

i know it’s hard to judge not knowing the guy and his background, it just doesn’t give off the best impression.

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I imagine our scouts to be like Sunderland's in their documentary. turning their nose up at a player for wearing gloves

Would've refused Gaston them 2 I reckon 

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, LinoJo3 said:

There was a screenshot of a insta post going round from someone who was a scout for us and had lost his job, just looked like some random boro lad and he was asking on the post for work aswell. Surely if he had any credentials he’d have contacts etc in the game and wouldn’t have to beg for work on social media.

i know it’s hard to judge not knowing the guy and his background, it just doesn’t give off the best impression.

I know alot of the 'scouts' hired under Gill over the years are usually local young uni graduates so if above was true it probably wouldn't be surprising there is probably a high turnover there because I imagine it doesn't pay great.

I'm more questioning the role of, size of, scope of and remit of the scouting department nowadays I'm not sure I've seen an answer throughout the summer to all of those questions I'd guess Woodgate with his scouting experience will work tightly with them going forward but I have no clue it seems a shame the way we've scaled back you look at some of the players they identified 2015-16 and most of the targets we missed out on have become proper players.

Edited by Jamie-H

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quite a few scouts are freelance and have full time jobs in completely different occupations  . My brother in law  has scouted for 20 plus years  and he owns and runs a farm admittedly he  does his scouting work  within a  100 mile or so radius from his home  but  the  scouting could be on behalf of  any team in  the land.  

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I think developments are happening in the scouting network. We have associations with Tooting and Mitcham and Portadown as examples. I would imagine the youth, U18 and U23 coaches are going to see a lot of young players in their leagues that might take the eye and can be scouted more intensively if they impress. We somehow managed to get Browne for £300k, paid reportedly £2m for  Dijskteel and £1m for Bola. It seems to me we would like to have got Bola when he was on a free and went to Blackpool, likewise Dijksteel from Nike academy but until this season we haven’t had a setup that actively did that. That is happening now. Burrell from Grimsby, the Tooting and Mitcham lads. I can also see the young lads in our academy coming through on merit. Coulsen, Malley, Liddle, Woods, Pears, Walker and Fry. I would hope our coaches are identifying the cream in our academy set up now, planning their path to challenging for the first team but also what we are lacking. At the minute it is probably wingers / inside forwards then trying to get young lads in with the required attributes to fill the gaps. Maybe  with Burrell and the Tooting lads we have started that. I think the potential in the next few years is exciting. What we dont need the scouts and recruitment team to be doing is looking at the likes of Ibe, Diangana et al with large wages for what they have done in the game and ridiculous loan fees as you  or I or Woodgate himself know all about them as do Derby, Leeds, WBA and Fulham.

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3 hours ago, DurhamRed said:

I do find it amazing for season's after season the club haven't been able to identify a winger in the whole of world football that is quality, affordable and most importantly would love to play for the Boro. All the while they must sit in Rockliffe getting paid for allegedly scouting a global database drawing up targets for transfer windows and then when the window come's around sign three standout league 1 player's, who Woody identified. 

I think it all comes down to this - 

Never in our history have we been an attractive club to come to, we've always been that cold, grey industrial town where no one wants to live. 

We managed for a while to attract players, who, under normal circumstances wouldn't come near us - and we used money to achieve that. 

Now the piggy bank is empty and it looks like Woody has learnt some valuable lessons - one being that we only want players who want to be here. Maybe in the interviews it was clear they were coming for other reasons - who knows? I know a lot of people don't even like coming here for a day, let alone to live - we're not popular darn saarf. 

But there's no point dissecting and dragging it out, hopefully between now and the next window we become and attractive team to come to and we are on the right track, one thing is for sure - the King is keeping his hands in his pockets, no matter what bs he spins. 

 

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1 hour ago, Essuuaitch said:

quite a few scouts are freelance and have full time jobs in completely different occupations  . My brother in law  has scouted for 20 plus years  and he owns and runs a farm admittedly he  does his scouting work  within a  100 mile or so radius from his home  but  the  scouting could be on behalf of  any team in  the land.  

He said he used to be a ‘first team scout at boro’, doesn’t sound like freelance.

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26 minutes ago, LinoJo3 said:

He said he used to be a ‘first team scout at boro’, doesn’t sound like freelance.

im not disputing  any previous statement . i was just adding a general  comment.

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54 minutes ago, TAPOUT said:

I think developments are happening in the scouting network. We have associations with Tooting and Mitcham and Portadown as examples. I would imagine the youth, U18 and U23 coaches are going to see a lot of young players in their leagues that might take the eye and can be scouted more intensively if they impress. We somehow managed to get Browne for £300k, paid reportedly £2m for  Dijskteel and £1m for Bola. It seems to me we would like to have got Bola when he was on a free and went to Blackpool, likewise Dijksteel from Nike academy but until this season we haven’t had a setup that actively did that. That is happening now. Burrell from Grimsby, the Tooting and Mitcham lads. I can also see the young lads in our academy coming through on merit. Coulsen, Malley, Liddle, Woods, Pears, Walker and Fry. I would hope our coaches are identifying the cream in our academy set up now, planning their path to challenging for the first team but also what we are lacking. At the minute it is probably wingers / inside forwards then trying to get young lads in with the required attributes to fill the gaps. Maybe  with Burrell and the Tooting lads we have started that. I think the potential in the next few years is exciting. What we dont need the scouts and recruitment team to be doing is looking at the likes of Ibe, Diangana et al with large wages for what they have done in the game and ridiculous loan fees as you  or I or Woodgate himself know all about them as do Derby, Leeds, WBA and Fulham.

Honestly I think there's too much money involved in football these days for teams built primarily from their academies to be successful 

The simplest way to get out of the championship is hire a manager with connections, best case scenario is to the prem for loans and knowledge of foreign leagues for players with twice the talents but half the price as their english equivalents 

Look at Karanka, links to Mourinho and knowledge of spain and we go up after 2 full seasons 

Daniel Farke knowledge of Germany and they go up after 2 full seasons 

Nuno Espirito knowledge of Spain/Portugal and links to Jorge Mendes and they sign Ruben Neves (admittedly once in a blue moon kind of signing £) they go up after 1 full season

Jokanovic connections all over the place and Watford had Serie A links, both Fulham and Watford promoted under him 

Lampard Chelsea loans, Bielsa foreign league knowledge, Gerrard Liverpool loans etc etc

We seem to be stuck looking for players in England only and no real connections to anyone and we end up paying £7m for Saville, £6m for Ashley Fletcher, however much for Jordan Hugill on loan man, the list goes on and on and on

We really seemed to be on the up with Karanka, connections to Spain, Jorge Mendes and Mourinho and the club were setting up connections to Atletico Madrid and Juventus. What happened to those club links btw? Now our club link is what, Millwall? trying to gift them over £10m for Saville and Jed Wallace on deadline day? Or West Ham paying £6m for Fletcher and begging for Jordan Hugill on loan no matter the cost. It's embarrassing how small and localised we are now as a club compared to only a few seasons ago tbh

I had optimism for Woody as he knows Spain from his time scouting at Liverpool and his slight connections to Klopp and Pochettino but judging from the window and what people have said in another thread, his hands are tied and it's Bausor and Bevington's plethora of footballing knowledge we get to tap into for the next few seasons, but not too much cos we're skint 😄 

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, LewisBoroPalfrey said:

Honestly I think there's too much money involved in football these days for teams built primarily from their academies to be successful 

The simplest way to get out of the championship is hire a manager with connections, best case scenario is to the prem for loans and knowledge of foreign leagues for players with twice the talents but half the price as their english equivalents 

Look at Karanka, links to Mourinho and knowledge of spain and we go up after 2 full seasons 

Daniel Farke knowledge of Germany and they go up after 2 full seasons 

Nuno Espirito knowledge of Spain/Portugal and links to Jorge Mendes and they sign Ruben Neves (admittedly once in a blue moon kind of signing £) they go up after 1 full season

Jokanovic connections all over the place and Watford had Serie A links, both Fulham and Watford promoted under him 

Lampard Chelsea loans, Bielsa foreign league knowledge, Gerrard Liverpool loans etc etc

We seem to be stuck looking for players in England only and no real connections to anyone and we end up paying £7m for Saville, £6m for Ashley Fletcher, however much for Jordan Hugill on loan man, the list goes on and on and on

We really seemed to be on the up with Karanka, connections to Spain, Jorge Mendes and Mourinho and the club were setting up connections to Atletico Madrid and Juventus. What happened to those club links btw? Now our club link is what, Millwall? trying to gift them over £10m for Saville and Jed Wallace on deadline day? Or West Ham paying £6m for Fletcher and begging for Jordan Hugill on loan no matter the cost. It's embarrassing how small and localised we are now as a club compared to only a few seasons ago tbh

I had optimism for Woody as he knows Spain from his time scouting at Liverpool and his slight connections to Klopp and Pochettino but judging from the window and what people have said in another thread, his hands are tied and it's Bausor and Bevington's plethora of footballing knowledge we get to tap into for the next few seasons, but not too much cos we're skint 😄 

 

 

 

Great post. I hate the fact that we turn our nose up at foreign players at times. As much as I'd love every player to play for the shirt, sometimes we need to be realistic and pay more for those players to come. 

When that money isn't there, then the connections that Karanka had proved invaluable, as does the links with Mendes. We've cut our nose off with that type of approach and now two years later we've paid the price with *** scouts and a limited budget and pool to get players from. 

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I'm happy with the window overall.

 

Could it have been better? Probably.

 

Would I love a bit of excitement for a change on deadline day? Absolutely.

 

There are people we could have hoped to move on that we never (Gestede, Shotton, we maybe have one too many CMs if I'm being picky). We could maybe have done with another signing or two (another winger would have definirely been nice, perhaps another CB).

 

These missed opportunities, however, probably stem from the fact that we have kept our important players, such as Britt and Fry.

 

They also mean that we will have more opportunities to blood some youngsters, who may well impress us and make us wonder why we worried about getting another centre half/winger in. 

 

Despite all the talk coming out the club, we knew it was going to be a tough transfer window. I don't think Woody genuinely deceived us as some have said, I think he just talked honestly about how he hoped things would go. Our tough approach to fees, while a welcome one for the bank balance, has ruled us out of a lot of moves. I can live with that, as I can see the long term goal of trying to be more reliant.

 

Our squad was ridiculously thin in some areas and ridiculously bloated in other areas thanks to Pulis, and the only genuine lie we have been told this season is that TP left us in good shape. But we have tried to address problem areas, and though we havent managed it completely I don't think that we didn't try.

 

The future is bright.

 

The future is Boro.

 

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