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Summer Transfer Window 2019/20 Season


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4 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

He was back playing for Ajax but wasn't as good, which was my point.  We've been linked with a number of players like this over the past few years and signed some as well.  I never claimed that we signed them all, simply that we seem to have an interest in these kinds of players.  I'm pretty sure Espinosa was signed on the back of an injury that kept him out of the side even after he'd joined us?  Fischer was signed in the same summer on the back of the injury that has quite clearly stuffed his career up.  A couple of risk free signings apparently because they were cheap - is any of this refreshing your memory mate?  We were linked with the Dortmund central defender around that time as well who was also just coming off a bad injury and in fact went on to have another health or injury thing shortly after we'd tried to sign him that apparently nobody at Dortmund or even the man himself realised he had. 

I can't remember every single player this applies to but there have been more and it's been a standing joke on this forum for a while.  I'm sure if you read back over some of the old transfer threads you'll see what I'm talking about as I guess you'll see players we were linked with at the time rather than just looking at those we actually signed.

If you include all the players we have been linked with then I don't think the percentage of previously injured players are any higher here than at other clubs. Maybe at the clubs at the top because they have the money to pick and choose while clubs at our level often have to take a gamble or scrap for leftovers.

Sometimes they get back to top form and other times they dont, which is why they are often cheaper or their contracts are running out. Their clubs have simply found better alternatives and can't offer gametime anymore. I'm not saying it's a good idea but I'm realistic enough to know that we can't avoid those kinds of players, unless of course we are lucky or go after players that have yet to prove anything and thats another risk.

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SDS, it’s Dijksteel at Rockliffe

For all those asking about these 4 players at rockcliffe just before weekend. I have done some digging appears it was bola Browne and 2 premiership loan players, sketchy with details but I believe the

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38 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

Also the fact that britt hasnt had a whisper of an injury problem since suggests that we did our homework with him and were happy that the issue wouldnt reoccur. Same with besic. McNair has had a few niggly things which is a worry but overall I think our record has been good so I dont see the problem. 

Again, you're ignoring what I'm actually saying.  I'm not just talking about people who have had injuries having more injuries.  I'm talking about people who have had injuries not being the player they were beforehand and thus being bad signings for that reason as well if you see?

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Also everyone is forgetting that our Medical department is now a Tony Pulis style super-facility, everyone has been given state of the art steam powered Iron knees and our strikers eyes have been replaced by the actual targeting computers used by NASA in the 1969 Moon landing.

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Just now, Borodane said:

If you include all the players we have been linked with then I don't think the percentage of previously injured players are any higher here than at other clubs. Maybe at the clubs at the top because they have the money to pick and choose while clubs at our level often have to take a gamble or scrap for leftovers.

Sometimes they get back to top form and other times they dont, which is why they are often cheaper or their contracts are running out. Their clubs have simply found better alternatives and can't offer gametime anymore. I'm not saying it's a good idea but I'm realistic enough to know that we can't avoid those kinds of players, unless of course we are lucky or go after players that have yet to prove anything and thats another risk.

You have no idea whether the percentage is any higher or not unless you're keeping some stats on it?  Neither do I to be clear, which is why I said we seem to have a peculiar interest in players who have had bad injuries rather than we definitely do or in your case we definitely don't.  But yes, I'm wrong obviously ?

Sometimes they do get back to top form I agree.  But in our case I'm not sure we signed those that had showed they had gotten back to their best - Fischer obviously being one I mentioned because I can remember you at the time saying it was a risk free signing, when of course it wasn't.  I don't believe Assombalonga has necessarily shown himself back to his best either but that's a personal opinion of course and nothing more than that.

What I'm saying is that we should be looking to avoid these kinds of players, that again is just my opinion on how we should be looking to do things.

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5 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Again, you're ignoring what I'm actually saying.  I'm not just talking about people who have had injuries having more injuries.  I'm talking about people who have had injuries not being the player they were beforehand and thus being bad signings for that reason as well if you see?

But I dont see any of the players that we actually signed that that was true of. McNair being the only one out of what 20+ signings since weve been back in the championship? Britt is still a prolific striker at this level. Hardly an epidemic. And again, it doesnt matter who we were linked with, it 100% matters who we ended up signing. 

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3 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

You have no idea whether the percentage is any higher or not unless you're keeping some stats on it?  Neither do I to be clear, which is why I said we seem to have a peculiar interest in players who have had bad injuries rather than we definitely do or in your case we definitely don't.  But yes, I'm wrong obviously ?

Sometimes they do get back to top form I agree.  But in our case I'm not sure we signed those that had showed they had gotten back to their best - Fischer obviously being one I mentioned because I can remember you at the time saying it was a risk free signing, when of course it wasn't.  I don't believe Assombalonga has necessarily shown himself back to his best either but that's a personal opinion of course and nothing more than that.

What I'm saying is that we should be looking to avoid these kinds of players, that again is just my opinion on how we should be looking to do things.

So if I can read between the lines here CT... you're saying we should sign Danny Welbeck on a free transfer and hand him 100k a week?

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Just now, Neverbefore said:

But I dont see any of the players that we actually signed that that was true of. McNair being the only one out of what 20+ signings since weve been back in the championship? Britt is still a prolific striker at this level. Hardly an epidemic. And again, it doesnt matter who we were linked with, it 100% matters who we ended up signing. 

Because you're only looking at those particular players and you've ignored those we signed beforehand not to mention you are discounting players we were interested in but didn't end up signing.  Wasn't Bolasie another one we wanted to bring in on the back of a bad injury?   Whickham?  Puncheon?  They were all in the past 12 months.

I think that yes it does matter who we are linked with if we're actually interested in those players.  If we're not then yeah of course that doesn't matter, I couldn't give a crap about players linked to us that are nothing more than social media chat or just general media fluff.  But the players we are interested in do matter even if we don't sign them.

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Where did Woodgate say that he views Tavernier as a CM?.

 

If that's the case then I'd anticipate we start 4-1-4-1 with Wing and Tavernier the CM's given freedom to get forward whilst Clayton sits at the base. Or unless we put Wing into a winger role - similar to how Bournemouth successfully utilise Ryan Fraser - as that would allow him to pick up some very dangerous positions and also would free up a CM spot for one of our many CM's like Saville, McNair or Howson. I would be confident that Wing could play that more advanced role very well from the wing as he has many of the attributes to replicate how Ryan Fraser operates.

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2 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Because you're only looking at those particular players and you've ignored those we signed beforehand not to mention you are discounting players we were interested in but didn't end up signing.  Wasn't Bolasie another one we wanted to bring in on the back of a bad injury?   Whickham?  Puncheon?  They were all in the past 12 months.

I think that yes it does matter who we are linked with if we're actually interested in those players.  If we're not then yeah of course that doesn't matter, I couldn't give a crap about players linked to us that are nothing more than social media chat or just general media fluff.  But the players we are interested in do matter even if we don't sign them.

I agree with the later part of your second paragraph but the issue there is that we dont know how serious interest was in those players. Let's take bolasie for example. I think that's one that we can all agree we were very interested in - however we were unwilling to budge on our valuation of him - one third of his wages. Villa came in with the whole lot and he went elsewhere. Clearly we weighed up the risk and decided what the most funds were that we were willing to spend on that risk and stuck to it.

 

I'm absolutely fine with us looking at these players so long as it's not every player we look at and that we stick to our guns on our risk/reward valuation. The ceiling must be a high one to mitigate the potential of a low floor. 

 

I'll say it again - its the final decision  that matters and the thought process that got us there- not the fact that we are considering the players in the first place. Same goes for former players - I think we know that we fundamentally disagree on that too. 

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What if part of the thought process is that these players have recently had a bad injury and thus we might be able to get them cheaper than we would have been able to but they might not be the same player they were beforehand?  That's precisely what I'm talking about - the idea that something like that might be part of our thought process is what I think is a bad idea, if indeed that has been happening.

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1 minute ago, Changing Times said:

What if part of the thought process is that these players have recently had a bad injury and thus we might be able to get them cheaper than we would have been able to but they might not be the same player they were beforehand?  That's precisely what I'm talking about - the idea that something like that might be part of our thought process is what I think is a bad idea, if indeed that has been happening.

That's fine by me. Part of our thought process with a young player will be he might never reach his potential. Part of our process for a player from abroad will be he might not adapt to the league. 

There are no sure things In football. What i want is our recruitment team to analyse the risks of every signing and make an informed decisions If it's worth the layout. I dont believe weve done that particularly well over the last few years, but I do think taking previous injuries into account hasnt been a particularly weak spot of our recruitment, especially when you look at the deals that we finalised. 

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8 minutes ago, p_mards said:

Where did Woodgate say that he views Tavernier as a CM?.

 

If that's the case then I'd anticipate we start 4-1-4-1 with Wing and Tavernier the CM's given freedom to get forward whilst Clayton sits at the base. Or unless we put Wing into a winger role - similar to how Bournemouth successfully utilise Ryan Fraser - as that would allow him to pick up some very dangerous positions and also would free up a CM spot for one of our many CM's like Saville, McNair or Howson. I would be confident that Wing could play that more advanced role very well from the wing as he has many of the attributes to replicate how Ryan Fraser operates.

I think trying to figure out formations and that right now is a waste of time as we don't really know what the squad is going to look like.  Woodgate might have a firm idea already or he might be still thinking it over and looking at the players we have and those we bring in.  I would like to see Tavernier given a run in midfield but I'm also realistic enough to know that this will be difficult while the squad remains as it is.

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2 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

That's fine by me. Part of our thought process with a young player will be he might never reach his potential. Part of our process for a player from abroad will be he might not adapt to the league. 

There are no sure things In football. What i want is our recruitment team to analyse the risks of every signing and make an informed decisions If it's worth the layout. I dont believe weve done that particularly well over the last few years, but I do think taking previous injuries into account hasnt been a particularly weak spot of our recruitment, especially when you look at the deals that we finalised. 

I would say it has been if the players we signed weren't that good but I guess we're in danger of going around in circles at this point.

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Enes Mahmutovic is gone apparently to Dutch side MVV Maastricht I'm guessing permanently.

I know alot of people are wistful about McGinley but him and Mahmutovic hung around for years from Karanka through to Pulis always thought they were below average players myself.

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4 minutes ago, Jamie-H said:

Enes Mahmutovic is gone apparently to MVV Maastricht guessing permanently.

I know alot of people are wistful about McGinley but him and Mahmutovic hung around for years from Karanka through to Pulis always thought they were below average players myself.

Confirmed 

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