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Denzel Zanzibar

Boro vs Crewe Alexandra (EFL Cup) 2-2 (Fletcher, Bola)Boro lose 4-2 on penalties

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2 hours ago, Changing Times said:

I'm not going to defend Gestede and Saville here but I do wonder if having your club trying to ship you out all summer effects the effort level you're willing to put in?  The club don't want you so why should you bother kind of thing?  From Saville's perspective, we signed him last summer, he moved to the other end of the country and then a year later we don't want him.  I think I'd feel like I had been messed around albeit my pay rise would make me feel a bit better about it!

In all honesty, I think we all know Saville isn’t our best player, but I’ve never questioned his effort or desire when he steps on pitch, tbf to him he always gives 100%. At the end of the day that’s all we can ask, it’s  up to the staff/recruitment to buy/play him. It’s not like he’s walking around looking like he can’t be arsed like Gestede.

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2 minutes ago, BoroSmoggie said:

In all honesty, I think we all know Saville isn’t our best player, but I’ve never questioned his effort or desire when he steps on pitch, tbf to him he always gives 100%. At the end of the day that’s all we can ask, it’s  up to the staff/recruitment to buy/play him. It’s not like he’s walking around looking like he can’t be arsed like Gestede.

That's pretty much exactly what I saw from Saville last night, not effort or desire, walking around looking like he can't be arsed. He was definitely worse than Gestede yesterday night. Constantly getting caught on the ball and having to flail to win the ball back and giving the ball away with some awful passes, something which if he had his head up he'd be able to stop. Gestede was a bit labouring too and yeah he didn't win some of the headers I expected him to. But Saville was brought into the game a lot more and he wasted it at every other opportunity.

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2 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

That's pretty much exactly what I saw from Saville last night, not effort or desire, walking around looking like he can't be arsed. He was definitely worse than Gestede yesterday night. Constantly getting caught on the ball and having to flail to win the ball back and giving the ball away with some awful passes, something which if he had his head up he'd be able to stop. Gestede was a bit labouring too and yeah he didn't win some of the headers I expected him to. But Saville was brought into the game a lot more and he wasted it at every other opportunity.

Yeah Saville probably had his worst game for us last night. I disagree though about him lacking effort, when he loses the ball he usually tries to track back and get it. 

Tbh Tav was just as bad last night. He probably didn’t lose the ball as much, but all he did was pass it backwards and sideways. I always thought he was a more forward thinking player. Having him, Saville and Clayton in midfield is really slow and lethargic. No drive or creativity.

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25 minutes ago, BoroSmoggie said:

Yeah Saville probably had his worst game for us last night. I disagree though about him lacking effort, when he loses the ball he usually tries to track back and get it. 

Tbh Tav was just as bad last night. He probably didn’t lose the ball as much, but all he did was pass it backwards and sideways. I always thought he was a more forward thinking player. Having him, Saville and Clayton in midfield is really slow and lethargic. No drive or creativity.

Tav didn't have a good game either, I agree. I thought he was better against St. Etienne. He is the kind of player who can break through if given fair opportunity, wonder if generally being on the right of the 3 in midfield just didn't suit him? Or if the general lethargy of the performance just dragged him down with the rest? It seems as I said earlier that collectively there were just few examples of positivity in the team yesterday, I just thought Saville in particular got my explicit non-Man of the Match award last night.

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1 hour ago, Changing Times said:

I don't think they are a different beast to be honest mate.  I've been a regular away day tripper and I didn't think of myself as any different to those who didn't go to away games.  There's certainly less expectation when you go away from home and that possibly makes for greater tolerance in the sense that there's less disappointment if things don't go our way but I've also been to away games where the fans have been unhappy with what they've seen as well.  Mind you, I've also spent hours travelling to watch us get hammered and it didn't spoil my day one bit because it was more than just a football match, it was a day out with my mates.

I think in recent times we've had a load of abuse at the Barnsley away game before Mowbray got the sack, I think there was some at a couple of games in the season we got promoted under Karanka - Rotherham perhaps being one?  There was some the following season as well I seem to remember. 

I think away fans are more apathetic if anything because the match is just part of the day out for a lot of people.  Not apathetic in terms of their support but in their reaction to a defeat/poor performance.  I can think of very few away games where the game spoiled my day, maybe the lost cup finals and that's about it really, and I definitely saw Boro lose away from home far more than win.  I had a good time regardless and I knew that I'd have a good time at the next one and so on.

There's also probably still that sense of tribalism when you're away from home, going into enemy territory and all that *** and maybe that produces a slightly different mentality.  I don't think that made me support the team differently at home though and I doubt it does for anyone else either.

So in a long winded way you disagree it's a different animal but agree the away fans are on the whole more supportive and tolerant - regardless of the reasons behind it? 

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1 minute ago, Randy Sandwich said:

So in a long winded way you disagree it's a different animal but agree the away fans are on the whole more supportive and tolerant - regardless of the reasons behind it? 

I said there was less expectation but no I don't think they are more supportive.  I never considered myself more supportive anyway.  Maybe other people do but based on my own personal experience I wouldn't say that.  I used the word apathetic, which might not be ideal but I couldn't think of a better one.  If we played Man City at home yesterday and drew 2-2 then I don't think that the reaction would have been the same yet it would be the same result and the same set of fans.  The fans wouldn't be better or more supportive, there would just be a different context to the game.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

I said there was less expectation but no I don't think they are more supportive.  I never considered myself more supportive anyway.  Maybe other people do but based on my own personal experience I wouldn't say that.  I used the word apathetic, which might not be ideal but I couldn't think of a better one.  If we played Man City at home yesterday and drew 2-2 then I don't think that the reaction would have been the same yet it would be the same result and the same set of fans.  The fans wouldn't be better or more supportive, there would just be a different context to the game.

Well I guess we have different personal experiences then, there were seven and a half thousand there last night - I'm as sure as I can be that our away support makes way more noise and gets behind the lads more than last night - especially if there were  over 7 thousand there. 

Not that it matters in the grand scheme of things, what matters to me is getting behind the team now, when they need us to. 

Quick edit, I haven't actually took the red faction into this as in my eyes they are almost a separate entity, a group of young uns who are a throwback to the old days. 

I actually have people around me who would like them to be quiet or not there - maybe I'm the dinosaur here, who knows

Edited by Randy Sandwich

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10 minutes ago, Randy Sandwich said:

Well I guess we have different personal experiences then, there were seven and a half thousand there last night - I'm as sure as I can be that our away support makes way more noise and gets behind the lads more than last night - especially if there were  over 7 thousand there. 

The game would have a different context to it though is my point.  Seven thousand at home against Crewe is different to seven thousand away at a league game or maybe a cup game when we get a big allocation.  A draw at Luton in the league is different to a draw at home against Crewe in the cup, it just is.  I assume that lots of these great away fans were there last night because they are such great fans in which case they would presumably be some of the people you're now criticising for not being supportive enough. I was there, I'm not a great fan like, just a fairly ordinary Boro fan and I thought we were pretty crap really and I can understand why people would be frustrated with that.

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1 hour ago, BoroSmoggie said:

Yeah Saville probably had his worst game for us last night. I disagree though about him lacking effort, when he loses the ball he usually tries to track back and get it. 

Tbh Tav was just as bad last night. He probably didn’t lose the ball as much, but all he did was pass it backwards and sideways. I always thought he was a more forward thinking player. Having him, Saville and Clayton in midfield is really slow and lethargic. No drive or creativity.

That sounds exactly like the statements we were all posting on here last season after getting humped by Newport and the like. Maybe the dePulis-ification of the squad is going to take longer than we hoped. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Changing Times said:

The game would have a different context to it though is my point.  Seven thousand at home against Crewe is different to seven thousand away at a league game or maybe a cup game when we get a big allocation.  A draw at Luton in the league is different to a draw at home against Crewe in the cup, it just is.  I assume that lots of these great away fans were there last night because they are such great fans in which case they would presumably be some of the people you're now criticising for not being supportive enough. I was there, I'm not a great fan like, just a fairly ordinary Boro fan and I thought we were pretty crap really and I can understand why people would be frustrated with that.

You're sort of making a story up as you go along, I've not once said anything about people being "better fans" than anyone else, we both agree we don't like booing and I also thought we were pretty crap. 

I also thought that with ten changes, 3rd game of season and some young inexperienced players that it was probably going to be crap. If we hadn't had Gestede on from the start and say Fletcher, it could have been different - we tried to attack but anything that went to him ended up lost. 

I was there to support the team, see positive changes from the Pulis era and come away feeling we are on track. 

I can't speak for all the away fans who were there or not and it's back to what I've said from the start, for me personally I have a better match day experience away from home, it feels more vocal and more passionate. This could be due to the people around me or whatever, but the fact is that's how it is for me. I don't like booing and dont agree with it and you can write post after post if you like and I'm going to have the same stance. 

Considering we seem to agree on most of this youre milking it a bit aren't you? ? 

 

Edited by Randy Sandwich

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Isn't booing just a way for the fans to show their displeasure with the scoreline? It happens at literally every single game I'd imagine where a team is behind when they are expecting to be winning going in at the break. 

As a fan, how do I portray that the game of football I've watched hasnt been good without booing? 

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1 hour ago, RiseAgainst said:

That sounds exactly like the statements we were all posting on here last season after getting humped by Newport and the like. Maybe the dePulis-ification of the squad is going to take longer than we hoped. 

Of course it is. We have basically added 3 league one players to a one dimensional squad. We have seen some attacking play, enthusiasm and naivety and are not getting results. Last season we played a team at the same stage that were ultimately relegated from league 2 and we got through on penalties. This time we lost. It is going to be an up and down season where hopefully the playing style will bed in and we can look forward to more consistency next season. 

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1 hour ago, ManBearPig said:

Isn't booing just a way for the fans to show their displeasure with the scoreline? It happens at literally every single game I'd imagine where a team is behind when they are expecting to be winning going in at the break. 

As a fan, how do I portray that the game of football I've watched hasnt been good without booing? 

Is booing supporting your team?

Do you think if you don't boo they wont think they've just played crap and lost?

Do you think if you don't boo Woodgate won't go through them like a dose of salts? 

Other than letting the team know (which I'm pretty sure will have done through the 90 mins) that you aren't happy, what else comes from it? 

At the end of the Robson era I watched Curtis Fleming fall apart in front of me because of the booing - it was awful.  He couldn't kick a ball properly - this was a must win game too, which we lost. 

It must be great being an opposition fan, knowing that our fans turn on our team the way they do - and bloody embarrassing for us. 

When you say it happens at every single game - you imagine, what quantifies that? 

Leeds and Millwall come straight to mind as fans who don't boo their teams every time they loose (displeasure with scoreline) - in fact why don't you name teams fans when we've beaten them (as I assume you've seen us win) who then boo their team off. Because I assume it will be every single one if your theory is correct. 

 

 

 

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