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39 minutes ago, DanFromDownSouth said:

Really can't see us allowing us to let go of that many players next summer. Think this summer has gone a lomg way to go in terms of actually balancing the books. 

At the end of the 19/20 season we have 6 senior players who are out of contract; Ayala, Shotton, Friend, Johnson, Howson and Gestede. The money in those players contracts alone will be more than enough to put us on a very even keel. 

Unless ridiculous offers come in for Randolph, Fry, Wing and Britt I don't think we will have any real pressure to sell (from a financial sense). As I believe for the 20/21 season we will be in a very good position in terms of being self-sustaining and from a FFP stand point. 

That's before we consider the January transfer window, as we may see some players leave at that stage (Gestede and Saville) seem like likely candidates to go in Jan.

We won't be pressured to sell but the ITKs have said every single player is available if a decent bid comes in, Britt and Randolph's are high earners and Wing/Fry will have plenty of suitors 

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Just had another look at the table, we currently sit below teams like Preston and Charlton (who are in and around the playoffs), Brentford, Blackburn, Luton, Millwall, Wigan and Hull.  I don't se

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Sorry, but I can't agree with this. The vast majority of Boro fans recognise Gibson is a fan first and foremost. He loves the club so much he - with help from others - saved it in 1986, and he's earne

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3 hours ago, Foogle said:

I'm sure we invested far more than Burnley and Hull did in that window? I think we did suffer from buying too many players, not in the right positions and from foreign leagues who didn't hit the ground running. 

In the January window would we really have stayed up if we'd got Jese or Bojan, did they even want to come? We agreed a fee for Snodgrass but he preferred West Ham, so it's not like we weren't willing to back Karanka. We were already a split dressing room on a downward trajectory. 

Even little Burnley considerably outspent Boro by £10m in that 2016-17 season, especially in the summer window. Have a look at transfermarkt.com site.

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1 hour ago, jamesp said:

So is that a good reason to let him take the club back to that place without questioning his decisions?

I've just stated that I've questioned his decisions time and time again, its simple we've got no money so we cut our cloth accordingly, if some fans want a change at the top then state what the  the alternatives are because certainly at Sunderland, Bolton and Blackburn it definitely hasn't worked. Gibson as a fan and the chairman I have no doubt would fight tooth and nail to stop this club going into administration, would other owners put in the same situation, I'm not so sure..  

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The frustrating thing for me is that Gibson doesn't seem to want to get a director of football involved.

Some of his managerial appointments have been awful and we seem to lurch from one extreme style of play to another every time we change managers. 

I know we all think we know best and I'm sure he's the same but if I was looking back at so many bad decisions that I'd made, and how much of my own money I'd wasted I'd want to get some help. 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Boranup said:

Even little Burnley considerably outspent Boro by £10m in that 2016-17 season, especially in the summer window. Have a look at transfermarkt.com site.

On that site it says we spent £26m and Burnley spent £22m in the summer?  And you can't forget that Negredo was touted as a £10m signing if we were to stay up. I don't think we nickle and dimed it, also says we spent £16m in january.

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24 minutes ago, Boranup said:

Even little Burnley considerably outspent Boro by £10m in that 2016-17 season, especially in the summer window. Have a look at transfermarkt.com site.

I bet we blew Burnley out of the water with our wage bill though. 

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14 minutes ago, Foogle said:

On that site it says we spent £26m and Burnley spent £22m in the summer?  And you can't forget that Negredo was touted was a £10m signing if we were to stay up. I don't think we nickle and dimed it, also says we spent £16m in january.

 

14 minutes ago, Foogle said:

On that site it says we spent £26m and Burnley spent £22m in the summer?  And you can't forget that Negredo was touted was a £10m signing if we were to stay up. I don't think we nickle and dimed it, also says we spent £16m in january.

The site says Burnley spent £41m and recouped £1m, net £40m in 2016-17 season.

We spent £43m and recouped £12m. net £31m

We definitely "nickel and dimed" it.

The year before Bournemouth had spent £49m net, Watford £67m. Norwich just £23m and went down.

The year after Brighton £60m net.  Huddersfield £46m net.

 

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6 minutes ago, Boranup said:

 

The site says Burnley spent £41m and recouped £1m, net £40m in 2016-17 season.

We spent £43m and recouped £12m. net £31m

We definitely "nickel and dimed" it.

The year before Bournemouth had spent £49m net, Watford £67m. Norwich just £23m and went down.

The year after Brighton £60m net.  Huddersfield £46m net.

 

Like I said we had an obligation to buy if we stayed up on Negredo so the net spend would have ended up about the same. I don't think we didn't invest, we just didn't invest well. If you take into account wages I bet we would've eclipsed Burnley's total spend, wasn't it a wage bill of about £85m?

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5 minutes ago, Foogle said:

Like I said we had an obligation to buy if we stayed up on Negredo so the net spend would have ended up about the same. I don't think we didn't invest, we just didn't invest well. If you take into account wages I bet we would've eclipsed Burnley's total spend, wasn't it a wage bill of about £85m?

MFC turnover to June 2017 was £121.3m Staff Costs £64.9m Profit after Tax £11.4m. Net Transfer spend £40m.

Burnley turnover to June 2017  was £121.2m Staff Costs £61.2m Profit after Tax £22.2m. Net Transfer spend £31m.

Both taken from their Annual Accounts,  Transfers  from transfermarkt.com.

If there was an obligation to buy Negredo, then that would have started to hit the next season in any case. It is irrelevant to 2016-17 season finances. His loan fee and wages are and are included.

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4 minutes ago, Boranup said:

MFC turnover to June 2017 was £121.3m Staff Costs £64.9m Profit after Tax £11.4m. Net Transfer spend £40m.

Burnley turnover to June 2017  was £121.2m Staff Costs £61.2m Profit after Tax £22.2m. Net Transfer spend £31m.

Both taken from their Annual Accounts,  Transfers  from transfermarkt.com.

If there was an obligation to buy Negredo, then that would have started to hit the next season in any case. It is irrelevant to 2016-17 season finances. His loan fee and wages are and are included.

We probably spent to about our limit and got the players in we could attract. One of our mistakes was discarding some of the players who got us up too quickly. We were also badly let down by Ramirez, who with hindsight we should have let go to Leicester. All ifs and buts, however despite our final poor showing we weren't far off up until early March...

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2 minutes ago, Otto42 said:

We probably spent to about our limit and got the players in we could attract. One of our mistakes was discarding some of the players who got us up too quickly. We were also badly let down by Ramirez, who with hindsight we should have let go to Leicester. All ifs and buts, however despite our final poor showing we weren't far off up until early March...

We spent nowhere near to our limit. The Club made a profit which was used to pay some money back to Gibson O'Neill, reducing the Group Undertakings by £11m that year. It is clear in the Accounts.

Other Clubs have had owners who have injected equity into their Club on promotion and stay within FFP. MFC had no equity injected and in fact had internal Group loans reduced in that season.

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9 minutes ago, Boranup said:

MFC turnover to June 2017 was £121.3m Staff Costs £64.9m Profit after Tax £11.4m. Net Transfer spend £40m.

Burnley turnover to June 2017  was £121.2m Staff Costs £61.2m Profit after Tax £22.2m. Net Transfer spend £31m.

Both taken from their Annual Accounts,  Transfers  from transfermarkt.com.

If there was an obligation to buy Negredo, then that would have started to hit the next season in any case. It is irrelevant to 2016-17 season finances. His loan fee and wages are and are included.

So Burnley profited £10m more than us in that financial year? Surely that means we were living closer to our edge than Burnley were? Our costs were £89m for the year on our accounts so I don't know how much credence I'd put in Transfermarkt numbers either way.

I didn't think we were skimping out in that Premier League season either way, I was pretty optimistic that we'd made some good signings. If Fulham has proved anything its that you can't just throw money at it and hope to survive...

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Since 2015 we have made and continue to make poor decisions when it comes to players and managers. I’ve always thought even the summer after the play off final we invested poorly. I’m not going to say Downing was a poor buy because at the time it seemed like a good one. I just think even then we lacked in the front 4, we had a very inconsistent fabrinni at #10 and our buy for left wing was de Pena.... Even Nugent wasn’t the greatest option for the CF either.

Since that summer we’ve only gone down hill and seen no sign of whoever makes the decisions on players changing. We blew the PL promotion by over spending terribly on poor players so instead of using the money to secure our medium term future we are back scraping the barrel just 3 years later it’s horrific. What’s even worse is after relegation we managed to recoup what we’d spent plus a bit more! What do we do? Go and blow the whole lot AGAIN on dross, then decide after a few months the plan we invested £50m in wasn’t working so just tore it all up, that’s before you even mention the gestede/guedioura signings which are still costing us to this day.

Sanctioning expensive deals for players we don’t need (saville), allegedly shutting down loan deals for players were desperate for (elyonoussi), getting took for a ride by pulis and monk, from top to bottom we are a shambles and not many will agree but mike Ashley is doing a better job at Newcastle and has done since we both went down in 2009.

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16 minutes ago, Boranup said:

We spent nowhere near to our limit. The Club made a profit which was used to pay some money back to Gibson O'Neill, reducing the Group Undertakings by £11m that year. It is clear in the Accounts.

Other Clubs have had owners who have injected equity into their Club on promotion and stay within FFP. MFC had no equity injected and in fact had internal Group loans reduced in that season.

I’m not even bothered that GoN took some money back that season, I’m more bothered that we bought poorly. I don’t think any premiership team is an unattractive option provided you aim at the right level. Players will jump at the chance to put themselves in the premiership shop window and get a nice  pay rise for the privilege.

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2 minutes ago, LinoJo3 said:

Since 2015 we have made and continue to make poor decisions when it comes to players and managers. I’ve always thought even the summer after the play off final we invested poorly. I’m not going to say Downing was a poor buy because at the time it seemed like a good one. I just think even then we lacked in the front 4, we had a very inconsistent fabrinni at #10 and our buy for left wing was de Pena.... Even Nugent wasn’t the greatest option for the CF either.

Since that summer we’ve only gone down hill and seen no sign of whoever makes the decisions on players changing. We blew the PL promotion by over spending terribly on poor players so instead of using the money to secure our medium term future we are back scraping the barrel just 3 years later it’s horrific. What’s even worse is after relegation we managed to recoup what we’d spent plus a bit more! What do we do? Go and blow the whole lot AGAIN on dross, then decide after a few months the plan we invested £50m in wasn’t working so just tore it all up, that’s before you even mention the gestede/guedioura signings which are still costing us to this day.

Sanctioning expensive deals for players we don’t need (saville), allegedly shutting down loan deals for players were desperate for (elyonoussi), getting took for a ride by pulis and monk, from top to bottom we are a shambles and not many will agree but mike Ashley is doing a better job at Newcastle and has done since we both went down in 2009.

Yep this just about highlights what's wrong with Gibson, it's not an unwillingness by the owner to invest and a lack of desire for us to do well. It's just a sheer ineptitude, a lack of a clear plan or any desire to stick to one direction when things aren't going well.

But just like anything there are examples of better owners but also examples of much worse owners.

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