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17 hours ago, chickenlunch said:

ah I see the Pulis haters are still out in force.. yeah it's all Pulis's fault, I forgot. ?

Who said everything is Pulis's fault?

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18 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

I don't think the decision to hire him was that bad at the time, certainly not in comparison to the decision in wanting to keep him at only half his wage after so many of the fans had been alienated and with us in even deeper financial trouble.

Hiring him and not backing him financially or giving him the adequate coaching staff was Gibson's biggest mistake is the summer. 

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23 hours ago, chickenlunch said:

ah I see the Pulis haters are still out in force.. yeah it's all Pulis's fault, I forgot. ?

What exactly did Pulis achieve? Absolutely nothing. He did leave us with an alienated fan base and a very poorly assembled squad though. Lots of credit for that. Just because Woodgate is worse doesn’t make Pulis any good. Limping out of the playoffs the way we did and stumbling to 7th as one of the worst attacking teams in the league is absolute failure. 

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On 8/12/2019 at 12:16 PM, Borodane said:

I can't understand why people continue to bring up the "smash the league" quote. He actually tried to do that. He spent more than 50 million that summer. He got the manager wrong and that was the end of the season. I absolutely believe that he did what we could that summer and spent an outrageous amount of money.

We've not had the best of windows but so be it if the money isn't there anymore due to two year of horrific mismanagement. What I don't understand are his quotes from Woodgates unveiling. I get that he'd like agent and other clubs to know that we aren't desperate, but he could have worded it much better. Why give hope that Woodgate is going to be backed like the previous managers. That's a question I'd like him to answer. He sat there knowing that we needed to sell for millions and get high earners off the books and that there was no money available unless significant outgoing transfers were made.

Funny because I actually remember the "we're not there to survive, we're there to have a right good go" just before season ticket sales when we were promoted and then the poor recruitment followed by the Jan window. 

When you look at who AK asked for and who he got it wasn't to have a good go. 

I think he's a liar, he's lied since the day he got on the board.  He asked the impossible of two Boro legends in Southgate and Mowbray then hung them out to dry, took all the adulation threw at him while others fell. 

I remember when he did a two page spread in the news of the world (of all papers) on why he had to sack Southgate and completely layed all blame at Gareth feet and I just saw an egotistical liar. 

He can *** off for me - I supported the Boro before he arrived and will do when he's gone, even if we're in league 2 

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I think it is hard to criticise Gibson up pre Eindhoven. Not sure why you would want to anyway.

Gibson is not a nice bloke, but many successful business people aren't.

I think Gibson made mainly terrible decisions from Southgate until listening to Kenyon and appointing Karanka (his only good decision in 13 years).

Since the sadly under-funded Premier League season, Gibson has got things spectacularly wrong; from Managers through Executives, to Recruitment and Players. His decisions have wasted the PL revenue lifeline and left the Club a financial basket case. We are now welded together as the Club owe his Company so much money, it has negative value and is a fundamentally unattractive investment opportunity for an alternative owner.

Contrast to Newcastle United, who no longer have negative nett shareholder value and whilst owing Ashley £143m in loans are a PL Club with PL revenue, make profit every season and are a viable investment opportunity. Ashley gets stick for a lot up the road, but the Club is far far more secure as a result of him running it.

 

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4 hours ago, Randy Sandwich said:

Funny because I actually remember the "we're not there to survive, we're there to have a right good go" just before season ticket sales when we were promoted and then the poor recruitment followed by the Jan window. 

When you look at who AK asked for and who he got it wasn't to have a good go. 

I think he's a liar, he's lied since the day he got on the board.  He asked the impossible of two Boro legends in Southgate and Mowbray then hung them out to dry, took all the adulation threw at him while others fell. 

I remember when he did a two page spread in the news of the world (of all papers) on why he had to sack Southgate and completely layed all blame at Gareth feet and I just saw an egotistical liar. 

He can *** off for me - I supported the Boro before he arrived and will do when he's gone, even if we're in league 2 

I realised this summer that it wasn’t pulis who sucked away any enthusiasm I had for boro but Gibson himself. I just can’t get excited about it any more, you know the promises are empty and any big decisions will be poor, sometimes you’d swear he’s doing it on purpose.

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On 10/7/2019 at 7:52 PM, Blanco said:

I’m no masochist. I just like shape and structure to a team. I get more upset when we concede a goal than joyous when we score. Pulis was a far superior manager than many on here ever gave him credit for and IMO we are paying the price for him being hounded out now.

Pulis wasn't 'hounded out'. If you think Gibson would bend to the will of fans, then Pulis would have gone after Burton, or Newport. 

We couldn't afford Pulis anymore, because he was greedy, and we are skint. He gave the team a structure at the expense of ambition. We may have been better off with him this season, but we'd have been absolutely stagnating in mid table and playing absolutely dogshit football.

I made the analogy on Twitter to someone else perpetuating this ludicrous notion of Pulis being 'hounded out' that if you leave the house and then walk in front of a bus, the bit that you did wrong wasn't the 'leaving the house' part. Just because Woodgate hasn't been very good doesn't mean that getting rid of Pulis wasn't the right thing to do. 

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On 10/6/2019 at 5:46 PM, chickenlunch said:

Karanka wasn't all that. He did well in the championship, but even then we only just scraped up and it certainly wasn't because we were playing lavish football. He also benefitted massively from Victor Orta & us generally being pretty consistent in the transfer market. Then he completely bottled it in the Prem, after almost bottling it in the Championship.. it makes me question people's sanity when they're calling for us to get him back. He'd probably do better than Woodgate yeah, but it'd be straight back to playing the functional football that everyone supposedly hated under Pulis.. bit of a contradiction.

 

Wow. Okay.

'He did well in the Championship'. He got us promoted. That's about as well as you can do. Whether or not we only scraped it is irrelevant. And besides, that's not really true. We finished just ahead of Brighton, yes, but that's more to Brighton's credit than our detriment. There just happened to be 3 very string teams in the league that year. For context, we were 6 points clear of the next nearest team, Hull in 4th.

'He benefited from us being consistent in the transfer market'. So what you're saying is that he combined some players we already had, some from the academy, and some that he signed himself to make a decent team. So kind of like... any other successful manager in football. 

'He completely bottled it in the Prem'. We aren't in the Prem.

'Same football as Pulis'. Not even close. Karanka and Pulis were both pragmatic and defensive, but watching their teams was like chalk and cheese. Some displays under AK were excellent. Brighton away, Brentford at home (twice), Derby at home, that goal against Millwall. Aside from 4 months when we saw the best of Adama, there was barely a high point in the whole Pulis tenure.  

 

I was a Karanka fan, but I did agree that he was sacked at the right time. However, I'm now convinced that Gibson not only got that one wrong, but has been consistently off the mark with every big decision he has made since.

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42 minutes ago, Tom said:

Wow. Okay.

'He did well in the Championship'. He got us promoted. That's about as well as you can do. Whether or not we only scraped it is irrelevant. And besides, that's not really true. We finished just ahead of Brighton, yes, but that's more to Brighton's credit than our detriment. There just happened to be 3 very string teams in the league that year. For context, we were 6 points clear of the next nearest team, Hull in 4th.

'He benefited from us being consistent in the transfer market'. So what you're saying is that he combined some players we already had, some from the academy, and some that he signed himself to make a decent team. So kind of like... any other successful manager in football. 

'He completely bottled it in the Prem'. We aren't in the Prem.

'Same football as Pulis'. Not even close. Karanka and Pulis were both pragmatic and defensive, but watching their teams was like chalk and cheese. Some displays under AK were excellent. Brighton away, Brentford at home (twice), Derby at home, that goal against Millwall. Aside from 4 months when we saw the best of Adama, there was barely a high point in the whole Pulis tenure.  

 

I was a Karanka fan, but I did agree that he was sacked at the right time. However, I'm now convinced that Gibson not only got that one wrong, but has been consistently off the mark with every big decision he has made since.

I was bored stiff of Karanka football by the end, but knowing what I know now and how much worse it could be and how good we actually had it; I'll happily take that football again now without a second thought.

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2 hours ago, Tom said:

Wow. Okay.

'He did well in the Championship'. He got us promoted. That's about as well as you can do. Whether or not we only scraped it is irrelevant. And besides, that's not really true. We finished just ahead of Brighton, yes, but that's more to Brighton's credit than our detriment. There just happened to be 3 very string teams in the league that year. For context, we were 6 points clear of the next nearest team, Hull in 4th. We scraped promotion playing functional and uninsprining football, despite having a squad that was capable of actually playing some good stuff. Yeah, we got promoted, happy days.. my point was that the Dimi-briggade hold onto Karanka like he was Klopp and he wasn't. He won by having arguably the best squad in the league and then simply setting up so the other team couldn't score. The fact people love him, yet genuinely despise Pulis is ridiculous.

'He benefited from us being consistent in the transfer market'. So what you're saying is that he combined some players we already had, some from the academy, and some that he signed himself to make a decent team. So kind of like... any other successful manager in football. As in he had Vitor Orta there actively bringing in good players on great deals - Ramirez & Stuani being prime examples. We're now seemingly just blindly scraping the barrel in desperation, made even worse by the club completely failing in the last few transfer windows.

'He completely bottled it in the Prem'. We aren't in the Prem. Not sure what your point is here... I was talking about the fact that when Karanka was in the prem he just doubled down on the defence and we offered nothing going forward. This is the equivalent to bottling it in my opinion - it'd be like a boxer going into the biggest fight of his career and just keeping his arms up, not throwing any punches and hoping to last out the 12 rounds. Pathetic.

'Same football as Pulis'. Not even close. Karanka and Pulis were both pragmatic and defensive, but watching their teams was like chalk and cheese. Some displays under AK were excellent. Brighton away, Brentford at home (twice), Derby at home, that goal against Millwall. Aside from 4 months when we saw the best of Adama, there was barely a high point in the whole Pulis tenure.  You're in dream land, Karanka was abysmal football. miserable football. Made worse by the fact he actually had better players than Pulis. Pulis was perfectly fine in his first half season when he had a decent players like Traore & Bamford. As soon as they were sold and not replaced we were screwed.. not sure why that's so hard a concept for people to grasp.

 

I was a Karanka fan, but I did agree that he was sacked at the right time. However, I'm now convinced that Gibson not only got that one wrong, but has been consistently off the mark with every big decision he has made since.

so yeah. "Wow. Okay."

hopefully you won't reply cos I really cba with talking about Pulis again. Plus I'd get more sense out of talking to the panicked chicken in my avatar than most of you lot regarding TP. It's also irrelevant now anyway - it's all Gibson's fault I think.

Edited by chickenlunch

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14 hours ago, Brunners said:

I was bored stiff of Karanka football by the end, but knowing what I know now and how much worse it could be and how good we actually had it; I'll happily take that football again now without a second thought.

How much of that was down to poor signings though? I mean even in our promotion season we were desperate for wide players, striker and a #10, we ended up with downing, nugent and fabrinni, I’m not going to pretend I was disappointed to sign downing at the time, but for the big promotion push season nugent and fabrinni were massively underwhelming for me.

karankas system needed standout attackers to make the attacking part work as they were left to do a lot on their own. Even forest looked a bit more open going forward with lolly and those 2 Portuguese players they brought in.

While karanka was overly cautious I think most of that was down to almost a paranoia that our attackers wernt good enough. The melt down after January tells me the story, his plan was clearly just to keep us out of the bottom 3 until we could get some forwards in, we messed that up and he cracked.

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15 hours ago, Tom said:

Wow. Okay.

'He did well in the Championship'. He got us promoted. That's about as well as you can do. Whether or not we only scraped it is irrelevant. And besides, that's not really true. We finished just ahead of Brighton, yes, but that's more to Brighton's credit than our detriment. There just happened to be 3 very string teams in the league that year. For context, we were 6 points clear of the next nearest team, Hull in 4th.

'He benefited from us being consistent in the transfer market'. So what you're saying is that he combined some players we already had, some from the academy, and some that he signed himself to make a decent team. So kind of like... any other successful manager in football. 

'He completely bottled it in the Prem'. We aren't in the Prem.

'Same football as Pulis'. Not even close. Karanka and Pulis were both pragmatic and defensive, but watching their teams was like chalk and cheese. Some displays under AK were excellent. Brighton away, Brentford at home (twice), Derby at home, that goal against Millwall. Aside from 4 months when we saw the best of Adama, there was barely a high point in the whole Pulis tenure.  

 

I was a Karanka fan, but I did agree that he was sacked at the right time. However, I'm now convinced that Gibson not only got that one wrong, but has been consistently off the mark with every big decision he has made since.

Thank god someone has said it. Defensive and attacking styles of play are not binary. They are broad spectrums, and if on that spectrum you think Karanka was near to Pulis, you are wrong.

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In one way I do like that we still have a local chairman who is a genuine fan of the club...rather than some foreign absentee billionaire businessman, who treats the club like just another asset in their portfolio.

But sadly chairmen like Gibson are a dying breed (at least in the top 2 divisions). As someone pointed out, the amount of money he can invest in the club is now dwarfed by the sums being poured into some rival teams.

Although money is no guarantee of success, it doesn't hurt to have a club that is on a sound financial footing, that can afford to make big signings, if the opportunity comes along.

Unless Gibson can either somehow attract some major sponsorship, or persuade a consortium of local businesses to invest, foreign ownership may be the only way the club can progress (or even maintain its current position).

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I don't understand why there seems to be international interest in all sorts of teams even barnsley of late and yet no one seemingly wanting to invest in us. 

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