Duvel 2,446 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Someone on fmttm reckons we've been self sufficient since promotion and Gibson hasn't put any of his own money in since. That was from apparently scrutinising the clubs financial accounts. He seemed to think the days of Gibson pumping his own money are over, if that's true then the 1m per month rumour is rubbish. I was told in the summer that Gibson would 'sell tomorrow' if he got a decent offer. Whether that's true or not I don't know. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Dan1234 1,048 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 I could buy that @Duvel. Certainly seems to me it's more through choice that Gibson wont do anything rather than necessity. Link to post Share on other sites
DanFromDownSouth 1,706 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 24 minutes ago, Dan1234 said: I know people keep saying we are skint, but is it that or is Gibson just pulling out and not showing ambition. I just cant see how it adds up that we would be in such financial mire. Last time I looked (cant remember if it was before or after last summer's sales) transfermarkt at us at about a 20 odd million loss in transfers over the last 5 years. Even if we take this mystical figure of the club running at a 1m loss per month over the last 5 years that's another 60million. We've had promotion to the prem since then that pocketed us a cool 160? Million. To me that means 80million has not only seemed to have disappeared from the club, but we are also unable to even sanction loans and are actively looking to sell any assets. Now obviously I've over simplified things but I just dont get how things can be so bad. If Gibson has took a chunk out for whatever reason then fair enough, and if hes wanting the club to not run at any loss then fair enough. But how the feck are we apparently so skint??? This seems to keep coming up. So I'm just going to copy what I posted in summer 2018 about it. Below is taken from our accounts for the 2016/17 season. Our prem season. "Turnover: £121,392,000 Total Wages: £64,943,000 (That is all staff, not just players and coaches). 53.5% of our turnover was swallowed up by wages. This is before adding on top any transfer fees. It is also before any admin expense and additional running costs. Looking at that years accounts, we pretty much broke even, we did make a very small profit. But we didn't come out of the Prem on a big pile of money." Of a revenue of £120m we only made £10m that year. So we effectively spent £110m of our £120m. Our promotion season we were close to making a loss of £30m. The bit you mentioned (in bold) is just outright wrong, and that isn't a dig by the way. It is just factually incorrect. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
DanFromDownSouth 1,706 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Just to add to the last post, the season directly after relegation we ended with a loss of almost £6 Million. So season 1 (promotion season); loss of £30 Million (approx). Season 2 (Prem season): profit of £10 Million (approx). Season 3 (1st back in the champ): loss of £6 Million (approx). Over just those 3 seasons we have lost £26 Million (approx). The £120 Million from promotion hasn't been siphoned off, it has literally all been used in the 1 season we were in the prem. The subsequent parachute payments have been used to keep the club running. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Erimus 63 478 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Gibson's probably been told by his business partner 'O'Neil', to stop ploughing money into the club. Link to post Share on other sites
wilsoncgp 9,230 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 It's alright, he's just being quite conservative, that's all. Nowt wrong with that. Not judging by the way the polls are going, anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
Erimus 63 478 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 9 hours ago, wilsoncgp said: It's alright, he's just being quite conservative, that's all. Nowt wrong with that. Not judging by the way the polls are going, anyway. What Gibson is begins with a c and is not conservative and can be prefixed with any adjective you like. Link to post Share on other sites
Denzel Zanzibar 6,931 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Erimus 63 said: What Gibson is begins with a c and is not conservative and can be prefixed with any adjective you like. To be fair the words Conservative and *** are pretty interchangeable. (I initially bypassed the swear filter but i'm sure you can imagine what the starred word is as it also begins with the letter C) 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AnglianRed 6,229 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 13 hours ago, Duvel said: Someone on fmttm reckons we've been self sufficient since promotion and Gibson hasn't put any of his own money in since. That was from apparently scrutinising the clubs financial accounts. He seemed to think the days of Gibson pumping his own money are over, if that's true then the 1m per month rumour is rubbish. I was told in the summer that Gibson would 'sell tomorrow' if he got a decent offer. Whether that's true or not I don't know. Judging from some of the articles I've read, thats way off the mark. Unless they're the club's chief accountant or something, I'd challenge them on having read the accounts. I've done a few searches to try and find them, but haven't turned up anything official. One EG article from April 2018 states that the club's net profit from our last season in the PL was a mere £6.8 million. https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/finer-details-middlesbrough-fc-annual-14507477 A later one from February this year, states the club made a pre-tax LOSS of £6.4m in the year up to June 2018. https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/boro-accounts-show-multi-million-15851494 An extremely detailed article by PriceOfFootball gives quite a lot of infor into the club's various streams of income and expenses: Quote To attempt promotion to the Premier League is an expensive business as revealed when Middlesbrough submit their accounts to the government registrar for the 2017/18 season and reported a £20.2 million operating loss Only the receipt of parachute payments and some player sales prevented these losses from being too damaging for Boro, who are fortunate to have a benevolent owner in Steve Gibson to fund the club’s operations. Key Financial Highlights for year ended 30 June 2018 Turnover £62 million (down 49%) Wages £49 million (down 25%) Pre-player sale losses £20.2 million (2016/17 profit £10.3 million) Player sale profits £15.3 million (up from £11.3 million) Player signings £66 million (up from £48 million) http://priceoffootball.com/middlesbrough-2017-18-babylons-burning/ Matchday Income (2018) - £7.1m Down from £8.7m in 2017 Broadcast Income (2018) - £46.3m Down from £100.6m in 2017 Commercial Income (2018) - £8.6m Down from £12.1m in 2017 Player Wages (2018) - £48.7m Down from £64.9m in 2017 Average Player Wages (2018) - £23,417 Down from £31,223 in 2017 Wages as a % of Income (2018) - 79% Up from 53% in 2017 Doesn't paint a great picture overall... Link to post Share on other sites
AnglianRed 6,229 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Denzel Zanzibar said: To be fair the words Conservative and *** are pretty interchangeable. (I initially bypassed the swear filter but i'm sure you can imagine what the starred word is as it also begins with the letter C) I think Gibson might be a tad embarrassed at being described as "cool", "charismatic", or "classy". 😂 Link to post Share on other sites
Dan_Boro_Till_I_Die 1,179 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 (edited) Ever since Kenyon found Karnaka / Orta and then disappeared any direction we had was scrapped. Under that regime we had an identity weather or not you were a fan of how we played or not. We were signing certain players and looking abroad. We didn't pay to much for Nugent, Kike etc... We were all pulling in the right direction and we seemed to have football people involved at the club. When it went wrong Gibson clearly shat himself and thought I need to be the puppet master again. I don't think Woodgate is a Saint in this he has shown inexperience at times but I just don't see who is out there who would want to manage a club so skint and is about to sell all the best assets so its a huge rebuild job. Woodgate should never of been appointed but you can't blame him for wanting the job. Quote Edit Link to post Share on other sites
Changing Times 12,218 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 20 hours ago, DanFromDownSouth said: Just to add to the last post, the season directly after relegation we ended with a loss of almost £6 Million. So season 1 (promotion season); loss of £30 Million (approx). Season 2 (Prem season): profit of £10 Million (approx). Season 3 (1st back in the champ): loss of £6 Million (approx). Over just those 3 seasons we have lost £26 Million (approx). The £120 Million from promotion hasn't been siphoned off, it has literally all been used in the 1 season we were in the prem. The subsequent parachute payments have been used to keep the club running. That will include player amortisation though, won't it? Which might be an accounting reality but isn't quite the same as actual reality. Do some of the losses come from that figure for example? It's also worth pointing out that if you make a loss it's because you've spent all of your income, not that you didn't have much income to start with. We've had the income and wasted much of it. It'll be interesting to see the next set of accounts as they will include Bamford, Traore and Gibson as well as a few lesser players with only Saville counting as a transfer expenditure. That and the final parachute payment should make for healthier accounts or more massaged ones. Link to post Share on other sites
DanFromDownSouth 1,706 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Changing Times said: That will include player amortisation though, won't it? Which might be an accounting reality but isn't quite the same as actual reality. Do some of the losses come from that figure for example? It's also worth pointing out that if you make a loss it's because you've spent all of your income, not that you didn't have much income to start with. We've had the income and wasted much of it. It'll be interesting to see the next set of accounts as they will include Bamford, Traore and Gibson as well as a few lesser players with only Saville counting as a transfer expenditure. That and the final parachute payment should make for healthier accounts or more massaged ones. Yeah those figures will include player amortisation. Amortisation is technically an expense even though it relates directly to an asset (getting a bit accounting heavy there). But it is a double edge sword as the money we spent on transfers is spread out, but also the money we receive from transfers is also spread out. This last part is purely for financial reporting purposes, I am not stating that we have received/paid all transfer fees in instalments (although that is probably the case for some transfers). I forgot to add it yesterday, but these figures show just how badly we have managed our finances. It is certainly a poor reflection on the way we have made financial decisions. How we have squandered that much money over the recent seasons is very worrying. Yeah I'll be very interested to see the accounts for the first Pulis season (18-19 season). Link to post Share on other sites
northern boro 446 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) Exclusive in The Sun today Neil Warnock could make a shock return to management with Middlesbrough with Woodgate facing the sack. https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/10464103/middlesbrough-boss-warnock-woodgate/ Link to post Share on other sites
diggerlad07 3,648 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 well, well, well. Here is something as a surprise, could Woody be out of the door after all? Link to post Share on other sites
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