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Smoggydownsouth

The TP clear up.

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6 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Attacking with the ball as opposed to standing higher up field without the ball I suppose, mate.  That's just a different way of defending as far as I'm concerned.  What I'm talking about is what happens when we have the ball.

And you don't think us having more possession higher up the field, playing quicker combinations and having the 3rd most shots on target in the division is more attacking? Surely the way you defend also feeds into your attacking ethos if your target is to try and win the ball further up the field to improve your chances of scoring?

 

2 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Sorry, Clayton was given a rest?  On the third weekend of the season?  You don't think that seems a bit odd?

All I can go from is what Woody is saying, he does have a squad low on numbers so is probably conscious of running his squad into the ground. It could've easily been a tactical switch that hasn't worked out and he's covering his behind. He is a novice after all so he needs room to learn. 

Edited by Foogle

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2 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

Assuming the info is correct, it could explain why our new philosophy is taking a great deal of time to bed into the players. Think that some of these players also may not be here beyond this season and also probably don't have much to aim for this year if the expectation is that it's going to take some time. If you're in that position as a player, where in previous seasons your aim has always been promotion, you can understand why motivation could be a problem and a significant one for the gaffer to solve. It must be tough coming into a season as an older player, whose responsibility it is to lead the younger players, having to accept that your time in the limelight has all but come to an end.

And even worse, that the chairman supposedly wanted to keep the man who made this mess in charge in the summer. T'riffic stuff.

We have only played 3 competitive games with our strongest side to be fair

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11 minutes ago, Foogle said:

And you don't think us having more possession higher up the field, playing quicker combinations and having the 3rd most shots on target in the division is more attacking? Surely the way you defend also feeds into your attacking ethos if your target is to try and win the ball further up the field to improve your chances of scoring?

 

All I can go from is what Woody is saying, he does have a squad low on numbers so is probably conscious of running his squad into the ground. It could've easily been a tactical switch that hasn't worked out and he's covering his behind. He is a novice after all so he needs room to learn. 

Do we have more possession higher up the field?  I know the theory of winning the ball high up the field suggests you will but I'm not sure that's been borne out by what we've actually watched in the games so far?  I've certainly seen us win the ball back high up the field on occasions but I'm not sure it's happened enough to make us a more attacking side overall?  The stats don't seem too impressive at the moment either.  We rank 12th in the league in terms of possession in the opposition third, which is average.  At 29% it's also identical to what we had last season under Pulis so there's been no change.

You mention our shots on target, I'm not sure why that stat makes us more attacking?  I'd have thought that total number of shots would be more relevant?  I'm sure that you already know that we rank 11th in that so far.  I'm sure you also know that the majority of our shots are from outside the penalty area - 58%.  In fact, we have the third lowest amount of shots from inside the penalty area in the league so far this season, which to me means we aren't creating many chances and are having to have long range efforts.  We actually had 'better' percentages last season under Pulis where only 36% of our shots were from outside the area.  We rank 11th in terms of average possession per game and we rank 16th in passing accuracy but both percentages are higher than under Pulis in fairness - 51% - 45% possession and 73% - 71% passing accuracy.  We also rank 14th in number of key passes made and only 18th in total number of passes.  I think we currently play about 20% of our passes as long balls and unsurprisingly we are one of the most inaccurate at that, which you can probably tell from watching the games.  

It's only three games in so the current season's stats hold less meaning right now but so far I don't believe that we've seen more attacking football either from watching the games or from a look through the stats as they are at the moment.  I'm just not seeing it mate.  I'm also a bit confused with how we are managing to average more time of possession than our opponents but making so few total passes overall.  We're having more of the ball but doing less with it somehow.  That seems counter-intuitive to me.

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56 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

If what you're saying there it true then that's not a lack of confidence is it?  I mean, you're talking about players not caring and that.  That's something different to what I thought we were talking about.  I wouldn't like to accuse the players of that at the moment.

I mean it's a lack of morale/confidence from not having something to care about compared to usual. If the club isn't expecting promotion but these lads have drilled it into themselves for years that's what their aim would always be, do you think it's a huge jump for them to lose confidence in what they're involved in and, as a result, their own abilities?

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53 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Sorry, Clayton was given a rest?  On the third weekend of the season?  You don't think that seems a bit odd?

Aye, that does seem odd. Almost like he was lacking confidence or something. ?

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1 minute ago, wilsoncgp said:

Aye, that does seem odd. Almost like he was lacking confidence or something. ?

Well I'm sure dropping him has helped with that ?

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Like you say we've only played 3 games and two of them have been away from home which will skew a few stats, so I think having 51% possession is a pretty good number considering that. I didn't know all those stats, I'll confess that I've just regurgitated the stat about shots on target from the Gazette.

Maybe I've just been dazzled that Wing's goal against Luton came as a result of 15+ passes which we would never have seen under Pulis, or some of the moments we've won the ball back high and there's 5 players up in support baring down on goal but I just feel like we're playing football a more modern way, whether that's more "attacking" or just better to watch I don't know, and whether it's going to be a success is yet to be seen... 

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2 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I mean it's a lack of morale/confidence from not having something to care about compared to usual. If the club isn't expecting promotion but these lads have drilled it into themselves for years that's what their aim would always be, do you think it's a huge jump for them to lose confidence in what they're involved in and, as a result, their own abilities?

Confidence and morale aren't the same thing and a lack of confidence from not caring is honestly something I've never heard of before.  It kinda feels like you suggested that they didn't care and are now backtracking to something else in order to crowbar confidence in there.  If you think they don't care because they have nothing to aim for this season then fair enough but that has nothing to do with confidence mate and nothing to do with what Smoggydownsouth was talking about either in relation to Pulis.

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Just now, Foogle said:

Like you say we've only played 3 games and two of them have been away from home which will skew a few stats, so I think having 51% possession is a pretty good number considering that. I didn't know all those stats, I'll confess that I've just regurgitated the stat about shots on target from the Gazette.

Maybe I've just been dazzled that Wing's goal against Luton came as a result of 15+ passes which we would never have seen under Pulis, or some of the moments we've won the ball back high and there's 5 players up in support baring down on goal but I just feel like we're playing football a more modern way, whether that's more "attacking" or just better to watch I don't know, and whether it's going to be a success is yet to be seen... 

Yeah, of course it will skew the stats and three games isn't enough really either but as we're talking about those three games then it's all we've got.  51% possession is fine, not amazing, but we're having slightly more of the ball than the opposition at least.  I just don't think we've done much with it in the three games to date.

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21 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Do we have more possession higher up the field?  I know the theory of winning the ball high up the field suggests you will but I'm not sure that's been borne out by what we've actually watched in the games so far?  I've certainly seen us win the ball back high up the field on occasions but I'm not sure it's happened enough to make us a more attacking side overall?  The stats don't seem too impressive at the moment either.  We rank 12th in the league in terms of possession in the opposition third, which is average.  At 29% it's also identical to what we had last season under Pulis so there's been no change.

You mention our shots on target, I'm not sure why that stat makes us more attacking?  I'd have thought that total number of shots would be more relevant?  I'm sure that you already know that we rank 11th in that so far.  I'm sure you also know that the majority of our shots are from outside the penalty area - 58%.  In fact, we have the third lowest amount of shots from inside the penalty area in the league so far this season, which to me means we aren't creating many chances and are having to have long range efforts.  We actually had 'better' percentages last season under Pulis where only 36% of our shots were from outside the area.  We rank 11th in terms of average possession per game and we rank 16th in passing accuracy but both percentages are higher than under Pulis in fairness - 51% - 45% possession and 73% - 71% passing accuracy.  We also rank 14th in number of key passes made and only 18th in total number of passes.  I think we currently play about 20% of our passes as long balls and unsurprisingly we are one of the most inaccurate at that, which you can probably tell from watching the games.  

It's only three games in so the current season's stats hold less meaning right now but so far I don't believe that we've seen more attacking football either from watching the games or from a look through the stats as they are at the moment.  I'm just not seeing it mate.  I'm also a bit confused with how we are managing to average more time of possession than our opponents but making so few total passes overall.  We're having more of the ball but doing less with it somehow.  That seems counter-intuitive to me.

Pretty damning stats which nobody has tried to counter, I have to admit that after the Luton game I never bothered saying at the time but we didn’t actually create that much, we mainly just looked busy and knocked the ball about a bit more.

as has been said it’s only 3 games but I’m struggling to see the ‘new era’ So far aswell.

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3 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Confidence and morale aren't the same thing and a lack of confidence from not caring is honestly something I've never heard of before.  It kinda feels like you suggested that they didn't care and are now backtracking to something else in order to crowbar confidence in there.  If you think they don't care because they have nothing to aim for this season then fair enough but that has nothing to do with confidence mate and nothing to do with what Smoggydownsouth was talking about either in relation to Pulis.

No, it's not the same thing but it's all part and parcel of a person's mental well-being, it's all part of the same internal ecosystem and to think one is incapable of feeding into the other is pretty naive. It's absolutely not a huge jump from feeling *** about not having anything to aim for to feeling low in confidence in your own ability to do something about it. I've absolutely experienced that myself in the past.

But you're right, that's not exactly what SDS was saying. If that is a factor, that's not necessarily just down to Pulis, indeed if it is a factor it may be better for people to point their fingers further up the food chain at the club, I'm not sure anyone would disagree with you on that as such. But I also think it's a bit naive to think Pulis has nothing to do with the current mental state of players at our club and that that in any way couldn't indirectly affect players signing up to be part of it.

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16 minutes ago, Foogle said:

Maybe I've just been dazzled that Wing's goal against Luton came as a result of 15+ passes which we would never have seen under Pulis, or some of the moments we've won the ball back high and there's 5 players up in support baring down on goal but I just feel like we're playing football a more modern way, whether that's more "attacking" or just better to watch I don't know, and whether it's going to be a success is yet to be seen... 

Just to add, the Wing goal at Luton was a really nice goal.  Nice build up and finish.  I thought the way we won the penalty was also good if I'm remembering it right - building up the play down the right and then switching it to the left for Coulson to sprint on to, that's good play.  But we've had three games and I don't think we've seen too many other examples of it.  Most of what we've created is coming from pressing the opposition rather than us actually using the ball well.  That's what I'm waiting to see.

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Woodgate struggling to change our playing style because pulis broke members of our squad is ***.

most of our squad was here before pulis came and couldn’t adopt then to play a similar style to what Woodgate wants to play under monk.

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12 minutes ago, LinoJo3 said:

Pretty damning stats which nobody has tried to counter, I have to admit that after the Luton game I never bothered saying at the time but we didn’t actually create that much, we mainly just looked busy and knocked the ball about a bit more.

as has been said it’s only 3 games but I’m struggling to see the ‘new era’ So far aswell.

I cant stress this enough but its been 3 games. Scientifically on average it takes 2 months or 66 days for a new change to become a habit for an individual, yet you expect to see change after 270 minutes in professional sport? 

its completely unrealistic to not expect a transition period

 

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Just now, SzilardNemethsCurtains said:

I cant stress this enough but its been 3 games. Scientifically on average it takes 2 months or 66 days for a new change to become a habit for an individual, yet you expect to see change after 270 minutes in professional sport? 

its completely unrealistic to not expect a transition period

 

I thought it was about one month if you're talking creating habits?  I assume that pre-season counts though, which means we've had at least 6 weeks working on this.  I still think it comes back to the transfer window and it makes little sense that a team with clear areas of weakness will improve without improving those areas of weakness.  I don't see how signings players that don't play, playing people out of position and playing inferior players to those we had, can do that?

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