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I think as a club we need to lose this obsession we have with hanging on to high worth players when we are in these kind of situations.

Look at Norwich since selling Maddison, they have thrived, Bristol sold flint to us, apparently one of their best players, the £800k replacement they signed has left this summer for £20m.

We have to come to terms with where we are and selling our best players is our best route to rebuilding a team. 

Imo 2 or 3 good players in an average team are wasted, unlikely to be the difference between promotion or not and as a club we’d be better off with the £30m they could hypothetically bring in.

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3 hours ago, LinoJo3 said:

I think as a club we need to lose this obsession we have with hanging on to high worth players when we are in these kind of situations.

Look at Norwich since selling Maddison, they have thrived, Bristol sold flint to us, apparently one of their best players, the £800k replacement they signed has left this summer for £20m.

We have to come to terms with where we are and selling our best players is our best route to rebuilding a team. 

Imo 2 or 3 good players in an average team are wasted, unlikely to be the difference between promotion or not and as a club we’d be better off with the £30m they could hypothetically bring in.

I'm not so sure you're right here, though. Norwich were one of the teams you brought up when talking about good recruitment. That's because when they sold, they bought effectively. One thing the last 2-3 years tells us is that giving our recruitment team money to spend does not mean we're going to use that money effectively and might not even replace the player we sell. If we had any nous in the transfer market, I'd be open to that line of thinking. But Norwich didn't just buy well because they had money from selling Maddison, it's because they had a much better clue at the top about how and where to spend the money they had. Until that changes, we may as well keep the most valuable players as long as we can.

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I think we would have been better off cashing in on Britt early in the window and finding a decent replacement for him.

He doesn't score that many goals, never contributes to the creation of goals, cost a bomb and is probably on big wages.

I was desperate for him to stay at the end because I knew there was no time to replace him.

 

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3 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

I'm not so sure you're right here, though. Norwich were one of the teams you brought up when talking about good recruitment. That's because when they sold, they bought effectively. One thing the last 2-3 years tells us is that giving our recruitment team money to spend does not mean we're going to use that money effectively and might not even replace the player we sell. If we had any nous in the transfer market, I'd be open to that line of thinking. But Norwich didn't just buy well because they had money from selling Maddison, it's because they had a much better clue at the top about how and where to spend the money they had. Until that changes, we may as well keep the most valuable players as long as we can.

I don’t disagree with what your saying, but surely that’s a pretty pathetic position to be in as a club? Don’t sell and give the recruitment team money because they will waste it.

I was in 2 minds about Britt and Randolph in summer, but if you think like a chairman instead of a fan you conclude that any bids for these 2 would have been the highest we will ever receive for them, contract running low, at peak ability wise. Therefore we should have cashed in, we may get a big offer for Randolph in January and if we do I’d accept it.

We need to get real, there is no promotion or play offs this season so having money tied up in good players is pointless. If we don’t trust the recruitment dept to spend it then get shot of them. We HAVE to start thinking in this manner because there is no decent money coming from anywhere but player sales now.

I remember us being in a similar position when Mowbray was here and allegedly turning down bids for emnes and Rhys Williams. Emnes reverted to type and Williams got crocked.

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26 minutes ago, LinoJo3 said:

I don’t disagree with what your saying, but surely that’s a pretty pathetic position to be in as a club? Don’t sell and give the recruitment team money because they will waste it.

I was in 2 minds about Britt and Randolph in summer, but if you think like a chairman instead of a fan you conclude that any bids for these 2 would have been the highest we will ever receive for them, contract running low, at peak ability wise. Therefore we should have cashed in, we may get a big offer for Randolph in January and if we do I’d accept it.

We need to get real, there is no promotion or play offs this season so having money tied up in good players is pointless. If we don’t trust the recruitment dept to spend it then get shot of them. We HAVE to start thinking in this manner because there is no decent money coming from anywhere but player sales now.

I remember us being in a similar position when Mowbray was here and allegedly turning down bids for emnes and Rhys Williams. Emnes reverted to type and Williams got crocked.

The point is the recruitment team are going nowhere, so why sell good players for cash you're probably going to burn on worse players? There's no evidence that the money we bring in for someone like Dael Fry will be spent well and we're not exactly blowing our load on him as it is. If we were going to bring in a decent recruitment team who actually knows how to navigate this market well then yes, I'd be behind what you're saying. But Woody's been hung out to dry already, we're doing him no favours by selling the good players he has right now.

That being said, I think the club needs to sell in January regardless. I don't think this summer was any different in regards to players we still have. I suspect the only change is that we might ask for less to get big wage players off the books simply to sustain ourselves. That would be disappointing but if we have to do it then we have to. That's different to selling to fund new signings where I'm just not that confident we'll do it right.

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20 hours ago, LinoJo3 said:

I don’t disagree with what your saying, but surely that’s a pretty pathetic position to be in as a club? Don’t sell and give the recruitment team money because they will waste it.

I was in 2 minds about Britt and Randolph in summer, but if you think like a chairman instead of a fan you conclude that any bids for these 2 would have been the highest we will ever receive for them, contract running low, at peak ability wise. Therefore we should have cashed in, we may get a big offer for Randolph in January and if we do I’d accept it.

We need to get real, there is no promotion or play offs this season so having money tied up in good players is pointless. If we don’t trust the recruitment dept to spend it then get shot of them. We HAVE to start thinking in this manner because there is no decent money coming from anywhere but player sales now.

I remember us being in a similar position when Mowbray was here and allegedly turning down bids for emnes and Rhys Williams. Emnes reverted to type and Williams got crocked.

The club have identified many very, very good players, we just haven't as a club followed through and signed them. I think one of the key reasons we have changed our buying strategy is because we could have had Maguire for relative pittence and now we see a 70mill pound player that is beyond our means. This has gone on for years, we could have had 17 year old Terry but we balked at an extra 100k, Ditto Girould and Ricky Lambert and a whole host of young and lower league players

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OK, I'm doubling down, on my 'Britt is not good enough against decent sides'. 

Britt 22% of his goals against top half teams, 78% vs bottom half.

Bamford 47% top half, 53% bottom half.

It's there in black and white, the stats don't lie.

1112961033_Screenshot2019-08-27at19_35_02.thumb.png.765393d078acd7522459541ef07b91e0.png

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Try looking at it objectively;

He walks like a duck, runs like a 3 legged cow, can’t head the ball, can’t run with it either, has the first touch of a man with penises for feet, finishing is generally poor unless it’s an open goal in which case it’s abysmal.

So I’d say he’s worth at least double what we paid for him ?

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6 hours ago, BoroMart said:

OK, I'm doubling down, on my 'Britt is not good enough against decent sides'. 

Britt 22% of his goals against top half teams, 78% vs bottom half.

Bamford 47% top half, 53% bottom half.

It's there in black and white, the stats don't lie.

1112961033_Screenshot2019-08-27at19_35_02.thumb.png.765393d078acd7522459541ef07b91e0.png

I assume that's Britt and Bamford's goals for us? In that case that doesn't really mean anything because Bamford played in a much better Boro team than Britt does so obviously he'd have better results vs the 'better' teams 

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On 8/26/2019 at 3:25 PM, LinoJo3 said:

I think as a club we need to lose this obsession we have with hanging on to high worth players when we are in these kind of situations.

Look at Norwich since selling Maddison, they have thrived, Bristol sold flint to us, apparently one of their best players, the £800k replacement they signed has left this summer for £20m.

We have to come to terms with where we are and selling our best players is our best route to rebuilding a team. 

Imo 2 or 3 good players in an average team are wasted, unlikely to be the difference between promotion or not and as a club we’d be better off with the £30m they could hypothetically bring in.

These sides have only thrived because of their recruitment after selling these players. We could argue that Boro did the same thing with selling their key assets in Bamford and Traore but you need to follow that up with good recruitment which we haven't. Norwich went with cheap buys and young talent who tore the championship apart last season. We've brought in a young exciting winger who has been subbed at HT in back to back games which isn't good for anybody. I accept that players need time to bed in but if you're not given 60 minutes from the start, it's not a good sign, especially when you consider the calibre of the opponent. 

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16 hours ago, LewisBoroPalfrey said:

I assume that's Britt and Bamford's goals for us? In that case that doesn't really mean anything because Bamford played in a much better Boro team than Britt does so obviously he'd have better results vs the 'better' teams 

nope it is there championship goals. Bamford played at a rubbish Derby, a play off Boro, and Leeds. Britt for top half Forest, play off boro, and top half boro.  It's easy to dismiss, but Britt has always struggled against top half championship sides, regardless what team he was in. Bamford even in a poor Derby side managed top half goals. The idea that Britt is good enough to score regularly against top half teams is nothing more than supposition

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Bamford is clearly the better of the 2 it’s not and never has been up for debate for me.

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tripling down. Even players like Danny Graham (I couldn't be bothered to go back more than 5 years)  or Lewis Grabban the epitome of a decent championship striker, had better scoring against top half and top 6 sides.  That is in spite of playing for Sunderland, Blackburn, reading and forest. Even Jordan Hugill is more effective against those top sides. Hugill has scored 7 goals vs promoted and play off sides, to Britts 5. Despite being in some very average sides and being a very average player and playing a lot less games.

 

image.png.cd5763addd248a908fb8526f91cc0d2c.png

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14 hours ago, BoroMart said:

nope it is there championship goals. Bamford played at a rubbish Derby, a play off Boro, and Leeds. Britt for top half Forest, play off boro, and top half boro.  It's easy to dismiss, but Britt has always struggled against top half championship sides, regardless what team he was in. Bamford even in a poor Derby side managed top half goals. The idea that Britt is good enough to score regularly against top half teams is nothing more than supposition

Derby made the playoffs the year Bamford was there...

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Forest were a bottom half team when Britt played for them too.

His goals literally kept them up on the last day in his final season there.

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