How confident are you in Woodgate after our start to the season?

[wilsoncgp 9,281]

My experience of the games is generally that quite a few people still clap the players off at the end, that suggests to me that some at least appreciate the effort that has gone in and shows appreciation of the players, I'd like to think the majority of them see what I do. The atmosphere needs a particularly strong match to light it up during the game, though.

It's always difficult to gauge how many turn up blindly vs. how many actually want to be there, but we're probably looking at around 16-18k of our own fans per game right now and there is very little vitriol from the stands. Apart from the Wednesday and Crewe games, I think the referee has received far more abuse than the players or management. West Brom game wasn't as bad for the ref but as I said to my mate, being the best ref at the Riverside this season isn't exactly a difficult task, we've seen some dreadful officiating.

I think Duvel might be right, I think some still think Gibson is infallible. The ones who spoke out on the radio about him at the weekend generally said he's daft not to get rid of Woodgate, indicating their problem is more with the manager than him, which is unsettling. I don't think a lot of them see the bigger picture.

[Duvel 2,446]

2 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

Still better than doing nothing though, right? There's no guarantee doing something using these groups will help but doing nothing certainly won't either.

It would be good to see a few of the fans groups get together and start trying to encourage change at the club. 

The problem for me is do all those fan representatives feel the same way as we do? Do they have the appetite to challenge the club and would it make any difference anyway? 

I'd say No to all those 3 questions. 

[Maccarone 265]

How confident I'm I in Woodgate? ZERO confident, wrong time, wrong place! has all the makings of a complete and utter disaster for this football club and for us fans.

It's a complete shambles of a club at the minute, no senior leadership, no managerial leadership and no leaders on the pitch, am I frustrated? oh boy I am, Gibson's lost the plot I'm afraid, what's he's done for the club is amazing and I applaud him for it but all good things come to an end...............this is it or should be  

[Borodane 6,299]

21 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

But is this lack of passion Woodgate's fault? It sounds to me like it isn't. I think unfortunately that this perfect world where 'someone like Jokanovic' comes in is a long way away right now and Woodgate not being that manager isn't on him.

People are looking at it now as worse than Pulis being in charge and I kind of have to bring up how I said on plenty of occasions before I left the forum last season that the grass wouldn't simply be greener if he went, getting rid of Pulis didn't solve the problem but people still unequivocally wanted rid of him anyway, far more than I've ever seen fans wanting rid of a manager before at this club. Him going earlier could have even left us more in the lurch financially.

I bring that up because now similarly, some people want rid of Woodgate. People want rid of him so we can bring in someone else who will be better for us, forgetting that the likelihood of that happening as a result of him leaving is close to zero. We can't keep wanting the club to sack managers until we end up with the golden goose but people always want rid of a manager without thinking what comes next. All that matters is that right now is bad, so the bad needs to go and that's really not a good way to move forward, nor to repair the damages of the past few years.

Same goes for the thinking behind simply getting rid of Gibson and allowing someone else to come in. People aren't thinking of what could happen but more what they want to happen and basing their decision for wanting rid of someone. Person is bad, thus get rid of them. Next person could be bad too, could be even worse, but it doesn't matter so long as bad person is gone.

I honestly think the fans need to organise properly if they want this sorting out and most importantly start directing their frustrations at the one man who is absolutely responsible for all of this and give Woodgate quite a bit more time to get things right. That doesn't mean trying to get rid of Gibson either, it means trying to work with him and develop understanding from one side to the other. There is surely a better way than quietly hating on the chairman on this forum, perhaps this supporters group we may join could be part of that.

Pulis is a desease to football clubs and you don't overcome severe deseases overnight. An experienced manager might have shortened the period but giving the reigns to a rookie is like asking a medical student to cure cancer. It's just a massive gamble. Even WBA fans have come on here saying it has taken them years to come to terms with Pulis' devastating effects on the club. The biggest failure post relegation is not letting Pulis go after that dismal play off season. It was clear to everyone he was going to turn us into turmoil and walk away an even wealthier man who couldn't give a rats ass about the club. We should have hired a decent manager at that time, as we still had the finances and squad to build something better. Instead Gibson decided to keep the destroyer of souls and now we are left with a sinking ship with barely any options.

[Essuuaitch 330]

Woodgate  whether he realises it or not is simply Gibsons Puppet.   in fact he has steadily assembled a  whole group of  extensions of his own puppets  around the club as an entity.  from the gazette to the non playing staff and this stage is now the management and coaching staff which are a mixture of easily manipulated guys and token fan friendly stop gaps that will inevitably and in his time  will be made accountable.    

the players are better than were seeing  but thats down to dwindling confidence to express themselves born by inexperienced coaching which week by week is getting desperate and cloudy.  

Go back to the begginning of Gibsons  tenure at the helm , a time where he rapidly became the messiah and had virtually if not total repect and admiration from our fan base  and you see a guy that took a back seat  and let the  players and staff  make on field decisions  , His appointments were astute  and  clever gambles  and no one can say that the day we lfted our first  silverwear of note in 2004  he absolutely didnt deserve or warrant to take all the acclaim he got that day . Nor can they say he didnt  deserve to wallow in the  fantastic  uefa cup run and final  accolades. 

maybe his luck ran out after that  but he still had tons of credit with the fanbase  .  But something either changed or more likely came to the fore with the man himself .  the business man , the  guy that more often than not gave the orders and expected to be  the figurehead  of his empire came from out of the shadows and took on a higher profile on  the  playing side of things  .  Since then Karanka aside (which very likely he for once wasnt the most inflential party in the decision)   weve  made  astoundingly bad  choices .   Now to loosely quote Mr Keith Lamb , were  getting the club the mismanagement deserves .  Steve Gibson  incredibly  ,bearing in mind what  he oversaw between 1986 and Eindhoven has become  high up  on the  blame table  and  it  doesnt give any true  supporter  one ounce of  comfort  that  its  transformed into that . 

im not sure hes willing or  his ego will  persuade him to  return to that back room (playing/coaching squad / transfer target wise) but  he would win back a massive amount of the fanbase credit  if  he started the ball rolling  and  realised  his  strong points and weak points .  

id 100% rather have that than a change of owner , but im not sure how many more bad moves he has left  in the present set up . 

[p_mards 1,365]

I think if things start to get even worse for us under Woodgate then Gibson would much rather get Pulis back involved in things advising Woodgate than sack him. On Saturday we set up in Pulis' favourite formation of 5-4-1 so maybe that has even started to happen. Whilst we performed better on Saturday, if we keep playing that style then it raises significant question marks over what direction the club is wanting to go in and also why would Woodgate still be in the job when we're reverting back to the Pulis system - which we were apparently determined to move away from. It would just indicate even more disjointed thinking and people making decisions who aren't fit for the job.

I feel like the new signings of Bola and Dijksteel need a manager who is a brilliant coach that is going to drill then defensively. Karanka worked wonders with Friend, who looked very dodgy defensively under Mowbray. Similarly he done a great job in coaching Nsue the defensive role of a RB. Our whole apparent aim of a sustainable model of clever scouting, buying cheap, improving through coach and first team experience, and then selling at a significant profit, then repeat process again, is looking a pipe dream at the moment as we have too many people who are not fit for the job roles they hold. The recruitment is awful, the coaching is awful, we're struggling in every game so we've had to go back to experience and dropping our young players who should be learning and improving. It's a shambles. Aside from the period that Karanka was here - in which Karanka and Orta were scapegoated by the Evening Gazette for taking control away from Gibson - we've been pretty dysfunctional for the past decade. The more power that is taken away from Gibson and his pals is for the best as far as I'm concerned.

Edited October 23, 2019 by p_mards

[Randy Sandwich 209]

I'm confident that Woodgate is the right man for the job purely on the fact I believe he will give it everything he's got, which is really all we can hope for at the moment.

I however, have zero confidence in anyone above him and especially Gibson. 

[LinoJo3 3,191]

@p_mards couldn’t have put it better, agree with everything!

[LinoJo3 3,191]

15 minutes ago, Randy Sandwich said:

I'm confident that Woodgate is the right man for the job purely on the fact I believe he will give it everything he's got, which is really all we can hope for at the moment.

I however, have zero confidence in anyone above him and especially Gibson. 

Is that the main criteria though, give it all you’ve got? I’d give it all I had as well but nobody would want me as manager, I want someone who knows what they are doing, giving it all you’ve got should be the absolute basic.

[SmogDane 4,055]

12 minutes ago, LinoJo3 said:

Is that the main criteria though, give it all you’ve got? I’d give it all I had as well but nobody would want me as manager, I want someone who knows what they are doing, giving it all you’ve got should be the absolute basic.

My daughter's team need an assistant and we would want you here 😉

[LinoJo3 3,191]

I wouldn’t mind trying tbh haha

[wilsoncgp 9,281]

4 hours ago, Borodane said:

Pulis is a desease to football clubs and you don't overcome severe deseases overnight. An experienced manager might have shortened the period but giving the reigns to a rookie is like asking a medical student to cure cancer. It's just a massive gamble. Even WBA fans have come on here saying it has taken them years to come to terms with Pulis' devastating effects on the club. The biggest failure post relegation is not letting Pulis go after that dismal play off season. It was clear to everyone he was going to turn us into turmoil and walk away an even wealthier man who couldn't give a rats ass about the club. We should have hired a decent manager at that time, as we still had the finances and squad to build something better. Instead Gibson decided to keep the destroyer of souls and now we are left with a sinking ship with barely any options.

The biggest failure post-relegation is spending transfer sums on getting back up with a manager who'd never been promoted. If we look back with retrospective eyes, Pulis should never have been forced to come in when he did. If we'd had someone as capable of Jokanovic and had given them £50m to spend, we could have been alright. I don't recall there being many of that ilk around and we wanted to go with the young prospective coaches with some experience, for sure. But we could have done that whole summer differently and change the fortunes since.

I mean the context of the situation is important, the club wanted to send a message that summer and spending the money we did was the best way it knew to send that message. But the wrong man had control of it, it was a huge risk to blow all that money on fees and wages and the project was poor conceptually. I suspect Gibson knows he got Monk wrong and that's why he's tried to drag his name through the mud since.

Even having said all that though, we know as a result that the club is not run particularly well. We know it all the sooner for not having had a successful manager during that time. It was only going to take one significant risk going wrong for the curtain to fall and maybe it is better for the long-term stability of the club that most of us (on here at least) see it for what it is at the top.

[diggerlad07 3,693]

I just hope to god now that Woodgate has learned his lessons and sticks to a formation that fits.

He has gone against his principles but at least he has come and admitted he got it wrong - You cant beat a man with a stick when he admits to his mistakes.

But now playing with wing backs we have an identify and playing better football and hopefully it brings results.

I would like him to stick with the same team though to get some continuity as he keeps chopping and changing at the moment as he is hoping to find a winning team.

 

[Randy Sandwich 209]

17 hours ago, LinoJo3 said:

Is that the main criteria though, give it all you’ve got? I’d give it all I had as well but nobody would want me as manager, I want someone who knows what they are doing, giving it all you’ve got should be the absolute basic.

Sorry I'll expand, he's the only person who I believe under the current conditions will give everything, if its not enough then the same will happen to him as others before him. 

He's still an unknown quantity and we will have to wait and see but I can't not get behind him knowing how difficult a job he has, so for me personally if he's giving it his all then I can't ask for more from him, now as for Gibson who is fully responsible for what's going on - he is who I have no confidence in, he is the one questions should be asked of and he is the one the fans should be turning on. 

Pulis apparently "knew what he was doing"  and I still don't want him back so I'm settling for a local lad giving his all - although that doesn't mean I'll be still feeling this way come December but Monk got till December and I thought he wasn't given enough time, we'll see. 

 

[Motor Mouth 255]

I see in the past week 2 managers slipped through the net, and would have fitted  the position of Boro manager that have experience and are well up for the fight. Both been around fighting survival getting clubs out of the relegation zones and even into positions at the top of the leagues within a season or two.  Big plus is they don't need fortunes to rebuild unlike many foreign managers of today.

I guess Gibson is quite happy to carry on allowing Woodgate take us down to League One. 

Pearson and Pardew both far better at doing the job.

But not yes men like all the muppets Steve Gibson is giving employment to at The Riverside.