Oslo_Syd 320 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 If Karanka were to come back - and I would be over the moon - it would take a lot of humble pie eating on Gibson's part. I suspect he was far too advanced and technical in his thinking for SG. Spend the Braithwaite money on getting him back. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TAPOUT 361 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 17 minutes ago, p_mards said: Warnock or Pulis until the end of the season would likely be a comfortable short respite as it probably keep us up, however, it would just keep Gibson’s long term corrosive influence over the club. We’re slowly drifting towards League One so I’m very scared for the club’s future. The only time in the past decade when we progressed sustainably (over more thank for a season) was under Karanka, which was incidentally a time when Gibson became very concerned about too much control being taken away from him. Karanka was the best thing to happen to the club in the past decade. There were downsides like the implosion pre Charlton - that’s beyond doubt - but the countless highs far outweigh them lows. EDIT: graphic of Sky added below of our record under Karanka that I was previously referencing. That sort of record seems a million miles away now. Karanka brought consistency. 4231. You knew what you were going to get. Plan B was 4231 with different players who could do it better. I think you need someone who has a philosophy they are going to stick to. In his first half season I think Karanka proved he was someone you could invest in and it paid off. He has history though and dont think he will be back any time soon. JW has not proved anything this season and the sooner he leaves the better, though the caveat is that SG would probably appoint Friend as the next manager. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
White Band 831 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 I don't think Friend is manager material. He would probably make a reasonably good coach, but I can't see him above league 2 at most as a manager. I think Howson could eventually be a decent league 1 or lower Championship manager because he seems to have a very good understanding of the game and different positions and tactics, but not yet and probably not for us. Link to post Share on other sites
Changing Times 12,211 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 We won 4 games out of 27 before Karanka was sacked. The final 10 league games saw us score 3 goals and gain 4 points. That was actually a worse run of form than we are in now. The downside p_mards mentioned - the implosion against Charlton - came in a season that we won promotion, that's how ridiculous it was. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Oslo_Syd 320 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 15 minutes ago, Changing Times said: We won 4 games out of 27 before Karanka was sacked. The final 10 league games saw us score 3 goals and gain 4 points. That was actually a worse run of form than we are in now. The downside p_mards mentioned - the implosion against Charlton - came in a season that we won promotion, that's how ridiculous it was. Yeah, but with all due respect, that was the PL, and we had one of the best defensive records. We were just toothless in attack. We actually drew 13 matches, which is almost a record in itself. AK's remit was to keep us in the PL, which he failed to do, although we were only 3 points from safety when he was sacked. Another well-timed decision. And let's not forget that he was sacked on 16 March - the final 11 games were under Agnew. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
White Band 831 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 I wouldn't mind seeing what the results of this poll would be like now. Link to post Share on other sites
p_mards 1,363 Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Changing Times said: We won 4 games out of 27 before Karanka was sacked. The final 10 league games saw us score 3 goals and gain 4 points. That was actually a worse run of form than we are in now. The downside p_mards mentioned - the implosion against Charlton - came in a season that we won promotion, that's how ridiculous it was. That run of form was in the Premier League so it’s incomparable to our form now. I agree about the bonkers nature of our promotion season under Karanka though. Link to post Share on other sites
Changing Times 12,211 Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 It's not incomparable unless you're saying that we had a squad that was comparable to this one. It was in the Premier League because we were in the Premier League. Being crap in one league is no different to being crap in another. You're still crap. Link to post Share on other sites
TLF10 4,440 Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, Changing Times said: It's not incomparable unless you're saying that we had a squad that was comparable to this one. It was in the Premier League because we were in the Premier League. Being crap in one league is no different to being crap in another. You're still crap. I think AKs downfall was our dismal performance in the Jan transfer market where he asked for 2 wide players and instead was given Guedioura and Gestede. In fact i think he used one of the pre match press conferences to really attack the club for failing to get the players he wanted given they had 5 months to do it. And i dont agree that being crap in one league is no different to be crap in another league. Neil Warnock has tried several times to be a succesful PL manager and failed. However he is by no means a failure in championship. In fact his record shows he one of the best in the history at this level. Link to post Share on other sites
p_mards 1,363 Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, Changing Times said: It's not incomparable unless you're saying that we had a squad that was comparable to this one. It was in the Premier League because we were in the Premier League. Being crap in one league is no different to being crap in another. You're still crap. For teams like us the average points per game each season in the Championship is much higher than in the Premier League. Look at Burnley’s recent points in the Championship vs Premier League. Getting promoted from the Championship requires roughly double the number of points per season (slightly different per game as over 46 games as opposed to 38) compared to avoiding relegation from the Premier League. It’s on that basis that I’m saying form between the Championship and the Premier League is incomparable. Link to post Share on other sites
Changing Times 12,211 Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, p_mards said: For teams like us the average points per game each season in the Championship is much higher than in the Premier League. Look at Burnley’s recent points in the Championship vs Premier League. Getting promoted from the Championship requires roughly double the number of points per season (slightly different per game as over 46 games as opposed to 38) compared to avoiding relegation from the Premier League. It’s on that basis that I’m saying form between the Championship and the Premier League is incomparable. I understand that but my point is if you're rubbish then you're rubbish. I've got no problem with saying that Karanka is a better manager than Woodgate because I'm certain that he is and if he was here with this squad then we'd be higher up the league table. I'm just saying that we were rubbish when Karanka was sacked, he wasn't unlucky or anything, we were rubbish. Link to post Share on other sites
BillyWoofs_shinpad 1,884 Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, p_mards said: For teams like us the average points per game each season in the Championship is much higher than in the Premier League. Look at Burnley’s recent points in the Championship vs Premier League. Getting promoted from the Championship requires roughly double the number of points per season (slightly different per game as over 46 games as opposed to 38) compared to avoiding relegation from the Premier League. It’s on that basis that I’m saying form between the Championship and the Premier League is incomparable. Can we not just all agree that our last ten managers have all been rubbish and probably the ten before them. Link to post Share on other sites
Changing Times 12,211 Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 11 minutes ago, TLF10 said: I think AKs downfall was our dismal performance in the Jan transfer market where he asked for 2 wide players and instead was given Guedioura and Gestede. In fact i think he used one of the pre match press conferences to really attack the club for failing to get the players he wanted given they had 5 months to do it. And i dont agree that being crap in one league is no different to be crap in another league. Neil Warnock has tried several times to be a succesful PL manager and failed. However he is by no means a failure in championship. In fact his record shows he one of the best in the history at this level. First part, I have no doubt that he didn't want those players in January. The players he did want weren't exactly a guarantee of success however. But putting that to one side, we signed lots of players in the summer and we won 4 games out of 27. I don't know what was going on behind the scenes and who was bringing in players etc but I see no reason to think that the January transfer window would have seen an improvement in our form if we'd signed the likes of Jese or Bojan. So no, January wasn't his downfall in my opinion. Second part, to me as a fan, being crap in one league is no different to being crap in another league was my point. You might love the idea of watching us lose in the Premier League rather than the Championship but I don't. Losing is losing and playing badly is playing badly. Who gives a crap what league you're in when you're doing that? I don't, makes absolutely no difference to me at all. The last two Premier League seasons we've had have been two of the worst seasons in my life. If you're saying that Karanka could come in, make us play better in this league then yeah I think he probably could, he certainly couldn't do much worse. But aren't we looking for more? Maybe it's just me because whenever we have these conversations I seem to be one of the few saying it but I want to see a good team, playing good football and being as successful as we can be. I don't believe Karanka did that with us so I'm not pining for him in the way that others are and I don't think that Woodgate doing a bad job means I want to accept a repeat of what happened while Karanka was here. Link to post Share on other sites
HoyteForLeftBack 189 Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 8 hours ago, BillyWoofs_shinpad said: Can we not just all agree that our last ten managers have all been rubbish and probably the ten before them. I think that just means the club is rubbish Link to post Share on other sites
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