LinoJo3 3,098 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Totally worse than last season, at least last season we had the league position to hold on to. This season there is nothing positive at all and the summer window just gone has told us a lot about the people running this club. Link to post Share on other sites
Maccarone 264 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 It's bad beyond belief, again lots of false promises, blah, blah. Woodgate's out of his depth, not his fault, cheap option, only option? what get's me is all that so called recruitment process during the summer, all that PR spin, all false, all rubbish. I fear for this season! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SmogDane 4,052 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) Slaven Bilic said something interesting in the post match interview... "We dominated them the first 15-20 minutes, but then they won a few corners and tackles and created some chances, and the fans started to cheer them on, which gave them more confidence and they could have scored a few" ... So ... Basically the fans won't cheer unless something is very good and the players won't perform good, untill the cheers are good.. So we are stuck 😄 I think both sides (players and fans) should start to perform and do what THEY can, to keep the other side happy.. That's win win for both! Tongue in cheek, but there's some truth in it. Edited October 22, 2019 by SmogDane Link to post Share on other sites
ManBearPig 1,833 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 At least with Pulis you could see his method and we got some success from it. I'd take leaking goals if we were playing it high up the pitch and getting caught out from an overlap for example. But we're getting cut open while playing bad football and conceding. Is Woodgate an attack minded coach or defensive minded coach? No one has an idea because I think neither does he. You'd assume its attacking as it's a high press, high line and win it high up the pitch but as I've said before it's gone. Now we are between nowhere and somewhere. What ever his plan is it looks like the players dont get it, and neither do the fans. So in summary, definitely worse than last season and that's something that I'd never thought I'd say with Pulis in charge. I think what grinds my gears the most is the propaganda that is pumped out from the club obviously trying to get people to buy into Woodgate as a person. "Boro boy, passionate, watches local games, knows the area". All of that means nothing if we're still *** on the pitch. Well at least for me anyway. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernSmoggie 4,223 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 hour ago, wilsoncgp said: For those who are saying they've lost interest and/or passion, do you feel better or worse than last season? I've never seen the fan-base or many fan-bases in general more dejected than us last year but arguably we were in a much better place than we are now. Worse. The two seasons with Pulis took my passion for Boro to an all time low, which didn't just automatically reset when he left. However, there was the lingering hope that someone like Jokanovic would come in and improve things. Now we're just as bad except we have two stationary bodies out wide instead of at CDM. Still don't score, just concede a load and lose too. I honestly believe we will have a Poundland Pulis in by Christmas to try and keep us in the division.... and the few remaining players of quality will be gone in the Summer either way. As Duvel said in another thread, we're being outperformed by clubs with smaller budgets and even by clubs with owners who are an active hinderance. It didn't have to be this way and it's so hard to be anything but bitter about how things have gone since the PL. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
wilsoncgp 9,230 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 But is this lack of passion Woodgate's fault? It sounds to me like it isn't. I think unfortunately that this perfect world where 'someone like Jokanovic' comes in is a long way away right now and Woodgate not being that manager isn't on him. People are looking at it now as worse than Pulis being in charge and I kind of have to bring up how I said on plenty of occasions before I left the forum last season that the grass wouldn't simply be greener if he went, getting rid of Pulis didn't solve the problem but people still unequivocally wanted rid of him anyway, far more than I've ever seen fans wanting rid of a manager before at this club. Him going earlier could have even left us more in the lurch financially. I bring that up because now similarly, some people want rid of Woodgate. People want rid of him so we can bring in someone else who will be better for us, forgetting that the likelihood of that happening as a result of him leaving is close to zero. We can't keep wanting the club to sack managers until we end up with the golden goose but people always want rid of a manager without thinking what comes next. All that matters is that right now is bad, so the bad needs to go and that's really not a good way to move forward, nor to repair the damages of the past few years. Same goes for the thinking behind simply getting rid of Gibson and allowing someone else to come in. People aren't thinking of what could happen but more what they want to happen and basing their decision for wanting rid of someone. Person is bad, thus get rid of them. Next person could be bad too, could be even worse, but it doesn't matter so long as bad person is gone. I honestly think the fans need to organise properly if they want this sorting out and most importantly start directing their frustrations at the one man who is absolutely responsible for all of this and give Woodgate quite a bit more time to get things right. That doesn't mean trying to get rid of Gibson either, it means trying to work with him and develop understanding from one side to the other. There is surely a better way than quietly hating on the chairman on this forum, perhaps this supporters group we may join could be part of that. Link to post Share on other sites
Duvel 2,446 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said: But is this lack of passion Woodgate's fault? It sounds to me like it isn't. I think unfortunately that this perfect world where 'someone like Jokanovic' comes in is a long way away right now and Woodgate not being that manager isn't on him. People are looking at it now as worse than Pulis being in charge and I kind of have to bring up how I said on plenty of occasions before I left the forum last season that the grass wouldn't simply be greener if he went, getting rid of Pulis didn't solve the problem but people still unequivocally wanted rid of him anyway, far more than I've ever seen fans wanting rid of a manager before at this club. Him going earlier could have even left us more in the lurch financially. I bring that up because now similarly, some people want rid of Woodgate. People want rid of him so we can bring in someone else who will be better for us, forgetting that the likelihood of that happening as a result of him leaving is close to zero. We can't keep wanting the club to sack managers until we end up with the golden goose but people always want rid of a manager without thinking what comes next. All that matters is that right now is bad, so the bad needs to go and that's really not a good way to move forward, nor to repair the damages of the past few years. Same goes for the thinking behind simply getting rid of Gibson and allowing someone else to come in. People aren't thinking of what could happen but more what they want to happen and basing their decision for wanting rid of someone. Person is bad, thus get rid of them. Next person could be bad too, could be even worse, but it doesn't matter so long as bad person is gone. I honestly think the fans need to organise properly if they want this sorting out and most importantly start directing their frustrations at the one man who is absolutely responsible for all of this and give Woodgate quite a bit more time to get things right. That doesn't mean trying to get rid of Gibson either, it means trying to work with him and develop understanding from one side to the other. There is surely a better way than quietly hating on the chairman on this forum, perhaps this supporters group we may join could be part of that. I agree with your first couple of paragraphs to an extent, when I was critical of Monk and Pulis on here I also tried to argue that the problems ran far deeper than just a manager. Simply sacking Woodgate now would be like putting a plaster on a broken leg, maybe there might come a time later in the season that we need to change managers to avoid relegation but that still won't solve the problems behind the scenes. As for the fans trying to bring about change at the club... absolutely no chance of this happening. I think we've still got a large portion of the fanbase who would see it as disrespectful to Gibson and those who dared to criticise the club know they'll probably end up being banned from the ground. I haven't been to the ground this season and I won't be going back until I've seen some signs of change. I'm sure nobody gives a stuff about me not attending but eventually when there's enough people not attending then Gibson will start listening. Falling crowds are the only thing that will make him take notice (in my opinion). Edited October 22, 2019 by Duvel Link to post Share on other sites
Denzel Zanzibar 6,931 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 6 hours ago, Erimus 63 said: I don't know what the problem is with Gibson? Obviously he's decided not to plough anymore money into the club at this moment. What he'll do next in January is anyone's guess? Will he back Woodgate, or let the slide continue and sell the rest of the crown jewels. There are more questions than answers? as for me I think Gibson's gone senile... We won't strengthen in January, theres no money. Link to post Share on other sites
wilsoncgp 9,230 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Duvel said: As for the fans trying to bring about change at the club... absolutely no chance of this happening. I think we've still got a large portion of the fanbase who would see it as disrespectful to Gibson and those who dared to criticise the club know they'll probably end up being banned from the ground. Is there any precedent of trying? I know last year I went a bit off on one after Bruce's cabbage saga as I was annoyed at the pure vitriol without action. Today, I'd like to think I'm a bit more calm and diplomatic and I'd like to think that given there is currently a group with a connection to the club that fans could reasonably debate with the club about the direction we're heading in and if so many feel it is worth talking about that it should be given its due. But done properly, not just fluffing about getting rid of people like the chairman or the manager, not just saying hire a DoF, but put forward reasoned arguments at the very least as to why sections of the fan-base are unhappy with the direction of the club, speak about recruitment, speak about the intended style and whatnot, speak about the intentions full stop. I would certainly question whether people would be banned from the ground for criticising the club, certainly from the position of a supporters group. I would suggest that if that were the case that there would be plenty of people outraged by that and would take things further. That's far bigger a problem as a fan who pays their money to the club to be told they can only come in if they don't criticise. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Duvel 2,446 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 2 hours ago, wilsoncgp said: Is there any precedent of trying? I know last year I went a bit off on one after Bruce's cabbage saga as I was annoyed at the pure vitriol without action. Today, I'd like to think I'm a bit more calm and diplomatic and I'd like to think that given there is currently a group with a connection to the club that fans could reasonably debate with the club about the direction we're heading in and if so many feel it is worth talking about that it should be given its due. But done properly, not just fluffing about getting rid of people like the chairman or the manager, not just saying hire a DoF, but put forward reasoned arguments at the very least as to why sections of the fan-base are unhappy with the direction of the club, speak about recruitment, speak about the intended style and whatnot, speak about the intentions full stop. I would certainly question whether people would be banned from the ground for criticising the club, certainly from the position of a supporters group. I would suggest that if that were the case that there would be plenty of people outraged by that and would take things further. That's far bigger a problem as a fan who pays their money to the club to be told they can only come in if they don't criticise. It sounds great in theory I'm just not sure whether Gibson would take kindly to being criticised. We had the 2 Gazette reporters being banned a few years ago and Bernie Slaven banned a few years before that for being critical. Link to post Share on other sites
sanddancer 1,964 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 When things don’t go according to plan, blame the lack of transfers, and if we have transfers the excuse, bedding in. As you can guess I don’t wholly buy into it because, it’s not like you are taking someone that knows jack @@@@ about the game. I blame the structure in the club because it’s obviously not worked for several managers. How on earth does a club end up with not one, but six players soon to end there contracts. Of course these six players are surly adverting there worth and busting a gut right, well one would hope but I have yet to see evidence Woody has little or no knowledge but he is not going anywhere soon, so we had all hope the players start earning there worth, and luck shines with intensity. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
wilsoncgp 9,230 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Duvel said: It sounds great in theory I'm just not sure whether Gibson would take kindly to being criticised. We had the 2 Gazette reporters being banned a few years ago and Bernie Slaven banned a few years before that for being critical. But I'm not talking about journalists, I'm talking about organised supporters groups trying to bridge a gap. You're right that they were banned and almost certainly for criticising the club, for sure. But there's no cock and bull story Gibson could pull about fans that would go down well with other fans. Some fans, including myself, questioned the integrity of the situation prior to the journos being banned, wondering whether they were indeed in some kind of confidence and supply arrangement with the club, to get information at the cost of being able to speak their minds, the Gazette weren't exactly quiet about the strengthened relationship in the 18-24 months prior. So if a story sent them over the edge as it was rumoured to have done, Gibson could feel it reasonable to respond. Whatever happened, it's surely much less likely that would happen with fans groups right now. We don't know anything, we don't get fed anything other than rumours from unofficial sources, we aren't in bed with the club in any shape or form, as some would say we are customers concerned with the product the club wants us to buy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Duvel 2,446 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 5 hours ago, wilsoncgp said: But I'm not talking about journalists, I'm talking about organised supporters groups trying to bridge a gap. You're right that they were banned and almost certainly for criticising the club, for sure. But there's no cock and bull story Gibson could pull about fans that would go down well with other fans. Some fans, including myself, questioned the integrity of the situation prior to the journos being banned, wondering whether they were indeed in some kind of confidence and supply arrangement with the club, to get information at the cost of being able to speak their minds, the Gazette weren't exactly quiet about the strengthened relationship in the 18-24 months prior. So if a story sent them over the edge as it was rumoured to have done, Gibson could feel it reasonable to respond. Whatever happened, it's surely much less likely that would happen with fans groups right now. We don't know anything, we don't get fed anything other than rumours from unofficial sources, we aren't in bed with the club in any shape or form, as some would say we are customers concerned with the product the club wants us to buy. I think the club see the supporters as customers which is why they are open to suggestions in these fans forums, but there's a difference between getting feedback on goal music and what size parmos to sell in the ground to the actual running of the club. It's just a gut feeling but if the fans started to tell Gibson he should get a director of football and revamp the scouting set up I think they'd get short shrift. I think if the Gazette were impartial and started asking the right questions we'd at least get some answers but Gibson is never really questioned. Maybe some of the fans groups could start asking difficult questions at these fans forums but I'm not sure whether it would make a difference. Link to post Share on other sites
wilsoncgp 9,230 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Still better than doing nothing though, right? There's no guarantee doing something using these groups will help but doing nothing certainly won't either. Link to post Share on other sites
SmogDane 4,052 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Just a side question to all of this... How many fans do you think are having thoughts about bad management from the top? And how many fans are ignorant/not knowing about the real problems and blame Gibson's fall guy? How many are totally ignorant and goes to games happy and full of hope? What is the talk like among the fans at the games? Link to post Share on other sites
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