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1 hour ago, Duvel said:

I'm reading the comments on here and wondering whether Woodgate is getting too much of an easy ride. 

Yes all the problems stem from Gibson but Woodgate has enough decent players to be doing better than this. We are not a squad full of 18 year olds.  

The squad is definitely better than our current position and I personally think Woodgate will be found way out of his depth but in Woodgates defense he has been tasked with changing a team who has had the most negative tactics in the world drilled into them over the last 2 years into a half decent footballing side with very little backing from Gibson. In fact the squad is considerably weaker than it was last season imo. Pulis got half a season? out of Braithwaite and even bloody Downing would walk into one of the wing slots over Fletcher or Johnson. 

 

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1 hour ago, Dan1234 said:

The squad is definitely better than our current position and I personally think Woodgate will be found way out of his depth but in Woodgates defense he has been tasked with changing a team who has had the most negative tactics in the world drilled into them over the last 2 years into a half decent footballing side with very little backing from Gibson. In fact the squad is considerably weaker than it was last season imo. Pulis got half a season? out of Braithwaite and even bloody Downing would walk into one of the wing slots over Fletcher or Johnson. 

 

Yeah the squad is weaker than last season but it's far better than where we are. The bare minimum I expect from a manager is to be able to organise a team defensively on set plays. 

We are basically risking relegation so Woodgate can learn on the job. I'd say it's a risk worth taking if we were actually trying to play good attacking football but I haven't even saw much evidence of that. 

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Where are all the brilliant young players that the manager said were coming through. I have only seen Coulson so far who appears to be any where approaching the required standard. The purchases the club made are clearly for the future if they should develop. We really needed two or three players in who could have done it now though. Long and difficult season ahead.

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7 hours ago, Duvel said:

I'm reading the comments on here and wondering whether Woodgate is getting too much of an easy ride. 

Yes all the problems stem from Gibson but Woodgate has enough decent players to be doing better than this. We are not a squad full of 18 year olds.  

Totally agree, he hasn’t got players playing at their limit, it all seems to be at 80%. It’s no coincidence that the likes of friend, Clayton, Ayala dipped massively since karanka left, he dragged performances out of players and had them playing above themselves. Get him back ffs.

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After yesterdays diabolical performance you have to wonder what we are actually doing in training, because despite having one of the best CB's to play at the club who is now head coach we can't defend set pieces. Fry has been poor since he came back from injury, Shotton at CB  always looks like an accident waiting to happen, there's  no organization in defense, the 2 full backs at this moment in time are bloody awful.

We have no leader on the pitch, Wing is bang out of form, Britt wants dropping but the squad is so limited, and the Johnson, Fletcher Britt combination isn't working that well. If Howson is fit enough to be on the bench then he should be on the bloody pitch simple as that.

With regard to Karanka coming back, would we now look like an attractive proposition to him  given he would  have no money to spend, and would have a very limited squad.

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9 hours ago, Duvel said:

I'm reading the comments on here and wondering whether Woodgate is getting too much of an easy ride. 

Yes all the problems stem from Gibson but Woodgate has enough decent players to be doing better than this. We are not a squad full of 18 year olds.  

I agree, but in fairness if Woodgate is a crap manager then it’s not his fault. It’s Gibson who chose him and took the risk. 

It’s like me being chosen to start every week even though I’m ***. It’s not my fault I’m not good enough, it’s the person who signs/plays me. 

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I think we're stuck with Woodgate whether we like it or not and there are circumstances behind that which the chairman will have to answer for. I'd be saying it's too early to jump on him even if he wasn't a rookie manager but he is that and he absolutely still needs time. It'll be a while before anyone can convince me we need to panic with him in charge, simple as that.

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2 hours ago, LinoJo3 said:

Totally agree, he hasn’t got players playing at their limit, it all seems to be at 80%. It’s no coincidence that the likes of friend, Clayton, Ayala dipped massively since karanka left, he dragged performances out of players and had them playing above themselves. Get him back ffs.

I agree and it's probably down to the squad we have as they is no real competition for places which leads to players not going out performing to their maximum as they know if they don't they are still in the team not put on the bench. Like Britt should be put on the bench after missing them chances but who do we have to replace him Rudy Gestede or Walker 

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On 9/29/2019 at 11:46 AM, Duvel said:

Yeah the squad is weaker than last season but it's far better than where we are. The bare minimum I expect from a manager is to be able to organise a team defensively on set plays. 

We are basically risking relegation so Woodgate can learn on the job. I'd say it's a risk worth taking if we were actually trying to play good attacking football but I haven't even saw much evidence of that. 

Are we though?

 

For starters if this time last year you were told that fletcher, johnson, mcnair, shotton and two league 1 full backs would be in our starting 11 in 12 months time how would you have felt? Out of all those only McNair has proved himself any better than mediocre championship players. 

Add to that injury problems to fry and howson, wings complete loss of form (lets not forget he was playing non league a couple of years ago), an in and out ayala also out of form and whatever the hell has happened to assombalonga.. really weve only got one player who we can rely on to perform week in week out and it's our goalkeeper. 

Personally i expected these kinds of struggles before the season started. I'm not saying woodgate is doing a good job or anything, just that the squad hes been given to work with is lower half championship quality, so its logical that that's where we are in the table.

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34 minutes ago, Neverbefore said:

Are we though?

 

For starters if this time last year you were told that fletcher, johnson, mcnair, shotton and two league 1 full backs would be in our starting 11 in 12 months time how would you have felt? Out of all those only McNair has proved himself any better than mediocre championship players. 

Add to that injury problems to fry and howson, wings complete loss of form (lets not forget he was playing non league a couple of years ago), an in and out ayala also out of form and whatever the hell has happened to assombalonga.. really weve only got one player who we can rely on to perform week in week out and it's our goalkeeper. 

Personally i expected these kinds of struggles before the season started. I'm not saying woodgate is doing a good job or anything, just that the squad hes been given to work with is lower half championship quality, so its logical that that's where we are in the table.

If this was last season Pulis would have been getting slaughtered for Britt and anyone elses poor form. You are basically admitting that Woodgate isn't getting the best out of the players. 

I think we've got an average group of players for this level but it's still good enough to be doing better than 1 point a game. Our points tally is virtually relegation form over 46 games and that's with a relatively easy start on paper. 

Like I said I think Woodgate is getting off a bit lightly. The playing style is still poor to watch, we are scoring less than Pulis's teams and Woodgate clearly can't organise us at the back. If we had a team full of teenagers then fair enough but theres still a core of decent players there. 

Other than it 'being better to watch than Pulis' I can't see anything on the pitch to give me optimism at the moment. What are others seeing on the pitch to suggest that Woodgate is showing signs of being a good manager? 

I know he's a rookie and learning on the job but compare this to Karanka when he arrived. I could see a plan and signs of steady improvement under him. 

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The question was always going to be whether Woodgate had the managerial skills to back up his philosophy... the second question will be how long are we willing to wait to find out. Can see us losing the next 3 home games to Preston, WBA, and Fulham - will be interesting to see if the crowd sticks by him. 

If we're in the relegation zone at Christmas for example... then where the hell do we go next. We've already taken the cheapest option going. 

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I have to add my agreement with the above. I always thought that employing Woodgate as manager was a very risky undertaking. It has been said that Boro has a history of rookie managers but let us not forget that Robson, Southgate and Karanka all had far better pedigrees than Woody.

What he does have in spadefuls is  an indisputable talent for making the right noises. He promised attractive, pressing football, which is exactly what everyone wanted to hear. But he has largely failed to deliver on this promise. And you can’t blame the players for tactics and playing style.

So we hear the mantra ‘he’s new to it – give him a chance’. Why? Why give him a chance? If Woodgate were a player with a comparable level of inexperience, he’d have been loaned out to a lower league club. That’s where Woody should be now – managing the likes of Mansfield Town (with no disrespect for them). Mind you, if left in charge to manage Boro for a few more seasons, he will be managing the ‘likes of Mansfield Town’ anyway. And he’ll still be Boro manager.

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Haven’t been on since Wednesday scored the second. Just don’t have the interest. Will watch the game tomorrow but I’ll be expecting a really poor one. 

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17 hours ago, Oslo_Syd said:

I have to add my agreement with the above. I always thought that employing Woodgate as manager was a very risky undertaking. It has been said that Boro has a history of rookie managers but let us not forget that Robson, Southgate and Karanka all had far better pedigrees than Woody.

What he does have in spadefuls is  an indisputable talent for making the right noises. He promised attractive, pressing football, which is exactly what everyone wanted to hear. But he has largely failed to deliver on this promise. And you can’t blame the players for tactics and playing style.

So we hear the mantra ‘he’s new to it – give him a chance’. Why? Why give him a chance? If Woodgate were a player with a comparable level of inexperience, he’d have been loaned out to a lower league club. That’s where Woody should be now – managing the likes of Mansfield Town (with no disrespect for them). Mind you, if left in charge to manage Boro for a few more seasons, he will be managing the ‘likes of Mansfield Town’ anyway. And he’ll still be Boro manager.

I mean I don't agree for a start that Southgate had a better pedigree than Woodgate. He's also been involved outside the playing side of the game longer than Southgate was. Monk had plenty more experience than Woodgate, £50m more to spend and also promised an attractive style of play and some on here think he wasn't given long enough. Well Woodgate is definitely not in the same bracket of experience and money and some want rid of him already?

Sorry but why was anyone expecting a rookie manager and coaching staff to implement a promise of playing the exact opposite way of the way we've been playing for the large majority of the past 6 years in a matter of 2-3 months? If anyone's struggling to see what we're trying to achieve still too, I'm not even sure I agree with that. Just because it's not happening from start to finish, doesn't mean we can't see examples of moves that we absolutely have not been doing until this season. Not everyone (including yourself) will have access to it but I can see what we're trying to achieve just in the pre-match passing drills as some of our best moves in the game come from similar moments to what the pre-match training encompasses. Passing between tight spaces, 1 touch max before releasing the ball. Keane is practicing a few different finishing opportunities pre-match and I think that's why Britt's finishing was even more disappointing in the Wednesday game, as he was so cool pre-match and not blasting the ball. Leo is giving the back 4 their own passing training where they bounce off a Clayton-esque midfielder and get more comfortable with passing the ball. Everyone keeps saying about how the players aren't pressing, it's like Woodgate's 'smash the league' comment, even though what he has actually said from the start is more like 'high pressing and more importantly, knowing when to press'.

And why give him a chance? Never mind that you should look to give pretty much any manager a chance (otherwise what's the point?), the reason he's got the job is not on Woodgate. The club is in a *** situation that it's got itself in and not one iota of that is on Woodgate. If you've got a problem with his past, whatever, keep your grudges and I'm not going to hold that against you. If you've got a problem with a rookie manager being in charge, how he should be managing a lower league club, then you're pointing the finger in entirely the wrong direction. Woodgate is a rookie manager and if it is ever going to work out, he needs to be backed by the fans until it's ultimately clear he's lost the plot. There's not one part of me that makes me think Woodgate and his team aren't trying their damnedest to make something of this opportunity. So sure, don't give the club your money, don't buy a ticket, don't pay to watch it online, point the fingers at the boardroom and expect better from the club as a whole but don't immediately jump on Woodgate and make him the scapegoat of our current failures because things on the pitch aren't going well right now, a good manager would struggle to make the play-offs in this environment. Not only is making him a scapegoat poor form for a rookie manager only a few months in, it entirely betrays the message the fans surely want to send; that Gibson is the problem and not who he hires.

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55 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I mean I don't agree for a start that Southgate had a better pedigree than Woodgate. He's also been involved outside the playing side of the game longer than Southgate was. Monk had plenty more experience than Woodgate, £50m more to spend and also promised an attractive style of play and some on here think he wasn't given long enough. Well Woodgate is definitely not in the same bracket of experience and money and some want rid of him already?

Sorry but why was anyone expecting a rookie manager and coaching staff to implement a promise of playing the exact opposite way of the way we've been playing for the large majority of the past 6 years in a matter of 2-3 months? If anyone's struggling to see what we're trying to achieve still too, I'm not even sure I agree with that. Just because it's not happening from start to finish, doesn't mean we can't see examples of moves that we absolutely have not been doing until this season. Not everyone (including yourself) will have access to it but I can see what we're trying to achieve just in the pre-match passing drills as some of our best moves in the game come from similar moments to what the pre-match training encompasses. Passing between tight spaces, 1 touch max before releasing the ball. Keane is practicing a few different finishing opportunities pre-match and I think that's why Britt's finishing was even more disappointing in the Wednesday game, as he was so cool pre-match and not blasting the ball. Leo is giving the back 4 their own passing training where they bounce off a Clayton-esque midfielder and get more comfortable with passing the ball. Everyone keeps saying about how the players aren't pressing, it's like Woodgate's 'smash the league' comment, even though what he has actually said from the start is more like 'high pressing and more importantly, knowing when to press'.

And why give him a chance? Never mind that you should look to give pretty much any manager a chance (otherwise what's the point?), the reason he's got the job is not on Woodgate. The club is in a *** situation that it's got itself in and not one iota of that is on Woodgate. If you've got a problem with his past, whatever, keep your grudges and I'm not going to hold that against you. If you've got a problem with a rookie manager being in charge, how he should be managing a lower league club, then you're pointing the finger in entirely the wrong direction. Woodgate is a rookie manager and if it is ever going to work out, he needs to be backed by the fans until it's ultimately clear he's lost the plot. There's not one part of me that makes me think Woodgate and his team aren't trying their damnedest to make something of this opportunity. So sure, don't give the club your money, don't buy a ticket, don't pay to watch it online, point the fingers at the boardroom and expect better from the club as a whole but don't immediately jump on Woodgate and make him the scapegoat of our current failures because things on the pitch aren't going well right now, a good manager would struggle to make the play-offs in this environment. Not only is making him a scapegoat poor form for a rookie manager only a few months in, it entirely betrays the message the fans surely want to send; that Gibson is the problem and not who he hires.

Yes. One million times yes. 

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