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Boro v Birmingham City (A) 1-2 (Ayala)


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21 minutes ago, Ayresome7 said:

There hasn't been anything through any sources to suggest he is under pressure. I am sure if senior figures wanted him gone it would be done, ask those involved in the discovery of protected bats which halted a multi-million pound project.

There was reported to be a dressing down of a senior player in the team in front of the squad the week after the Cardiff match. It involved a phrase which has been used as a joke in the past due to the number of times it has been referenced by JW in training and interviews but it didn't go down well this particular time and JW questioned the professionalism shown and whether this player was good enough for selection after being substituted. There seems to be a sense of frustration with how many times things have to be repeated despite different ways of trying to get the message across in certain training drills. The comparisons with the training ethos of world class players (Don't need to be told) perhaps from past experience hasn't gone down too well either after being referenced a few times.

Was the player in question subbed off in cardiff game? That would be one of Clayton, Sav or Marv  if so...

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It was just talk as our first choice was Pulis, not Woodgate, in which case the new style etc wouldn't have happened anyway. Final post before returning to self imposed exile.  We seem to have co

im in the same camp as BD .  ive gone through plenty of bad times in the past as well as wonderful times .  ive seen players ranging from  absolute top quality down to rank bad .  right now what i see

I don't think it's all bad. We just need a few players in the  January window. Two centre backs. Two fullbacks. Two centre midfielders and two wingers. And two forwards. 

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10 minutes ago, TLF10 said:

Thanks @diggerlad07

I totally agree with what you said about JW and his possible sacking. I feel if he keeps us outside the bottom 3 then he will not be removed. Even if we drop in bottom 3 I feel he will only go if we spend a prolonged period in bottom 3.

Having said I dont know where our next win is coming from between now and next international break. We got wba (h), Hudds (a), fulham (h), derby (a), qpr (h).  Wba r top and going very well. Hudds won last 2 and showing signs of improvement under Cowleys, fulham are going well. Derby have improved and unbeaten in last 5 and qpr r alao doing extremely well. We might get the odd draw but certainly don't see a win in that next 5 games which would mean 1 win in 12.

By the way @diggerlad07. Do you still get snippets of info regarding the club? Again sorry as i might have wrong itk poster but one of the itk source was Dimi i believe and he obv left.

Yeah I still get snippets and gossip but sometimes it's delayed, however if you have seen my posts over the past few weeks you will notice the majority of my posts have been regarding team sheets.

I will continue to pass on whatever I get though for you guys to have a debate over.

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3 minutes ago, diggerlad07 said:

Yeah I still get snippets and gossip but sometimes it's delayed, however if you have seen my posts over the past few weeks you will notice the majority of my posts have been regarding team sheets.

I will continue to pass on whatever I get though for you guys to have a debate over.

Cheers mate. That is much appreciated. 

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1 hour ago, diggerlad07 said:

I know that Red Bull visited last season against Stoke at home but I didn't hear anything further on that.

Kenyon has been working on different projects with Gibson but nothing has come of it because of Gibson's demands (apparently)

SDS mentioned Red bull too iirc. There was a thread on it here

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47 minutes ago, Ayresome7 said:

There hasn't been anything through any sources to suggest he is under pressure. I am sure if senior figures wanted him gone it would be done, ask those involved in the discovery of protected bats which halted a multi-million pound project.

There was reported to be a dressing down of a senior player in the team in front of the squad the week after the Cardiff match. It involved a phrase which has been used as a joke in the past due to the number of times it has been referenced by JW in training and interviews but it didn't go down well this particular time and JW questioned the professionalism shown and whether this player was good enough for selection after being substituted. There seems to be a sense of frustration with how many times things have to be repeated despite different ways of trying to get the message across in certain training drills. The comparisons with the training ethos of world class players (Don't need to be told) perhaps from past experience hasn't gone down too well either after being referenced a few times.

Thanks a lot. Can you share the quote and the player in question?.

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7 hours ago, Changing Times said:

It was just talk as our first choice was Pulis, not Woodgate, in which case the new style etc wouldn't have happened anyway.

Final post before returning to self imposed exile.  We seem to have completely moved away from whatever it was he intended to do at the beginning of the season.  If it was leading to us to some improvement then you could understand it but it clearly isn't so I'm confused as to what his thinking is about anything and everything at the moment.   We seem to be mostly stuck with this 4-3-3 formation, which I assumed was introduced because of the pressing game, but we aren't doing that now and yet we are still stuck with the same basic formation anyway.  If we aren't pressing then we need to change formation in my opinion.

There's all kinds of things being discussed on here, which is understandable when nothing seems to be working (Randolph excepted).  I don't think that either of the new fullbacks have looked all that good.  Dijksteel is the better of the two but even he hasn't been that good so far.  Bola hasn't looked like a Championship level player at all to the extent that Shotton looks like a better left back than he does (only just mind).  I don't agree with the assessment above that Fry is too weak to play at the moment.  He's fine but he's playing in a team that are struggling badly.  Ayala is the best partner for him but he has a tendency to do his own thing and that's not ideal.  They need to get on the same page but with weak fullbacks and and a midfield like a sieve it's going to be difficult for them.

In midfield things aren't any better.  Clayton has been garbage in my opinion and I've been a fan of his for ages.  I was paying close attention to him during the Preston game and again last night and he always seems to be yards away from his man and then looking around for someone else to mark or just marking space.  If that's part of our strategy then it's absolutely mental.  McNair is obviously the best of the lot so far but there are times when he's not helping either (without the ball more than with I'd say).  He's also been helped by tending to play on the right hand side, where we've at least had slightly better fullbacks.   Over on the other side we've tried just about every bugger.  Wing isn't playing well but he's also being asked to be a fairly deep lying kinda left sided midfielder and I don't get how that is meant to suit him?  He needs to be in and around the opposition penalty area or there's no point in him being on the field.  The further forward for him the better or just don't pick him.  Out of the rest, Howson never influences a game and Saville is like a less 'dynamic' version of Howson.  Not that Howson is dynamic!  But none of them, with the possible exception of McNair, are being helped with the way we are set up at the moment.

Up front we are stuffed because we didn't make any improvements.  Browne is a League One player like the other two signings we've made.  If we're lucky he'll kick on but at the moment he just seems to have a few clever touches and not much else going for him.  Fletcher is a striker who is being played out wide.  Assombalonga to me looks like he's heavier/bigger than he was last season.  This might be completely untrue, it's just what I see when I look at him, and he has no explosiveness at at all now.  Coupled with him being a ball greedy sod at times and the fact that he isn't some big lump of a target man, it's not exactly a way of playing built for him.  I think he's working hard enough, which is the usual dig at him, but he's not playing particularly smart at times and we certainly aren't helping with that.  Johnson is another League One player/bottom half of the Championship type but we knew that before the season began.  Tavernier did a few ok bits and bobs in the previous two games but no more than that. 

I think if we're playing Assombalonga up front then we either need another striker with him or a player playing just behind him, which means abandoning 4-3-3.   However, if Woodgate wants to keep playing like that then he needs to go back to the constant pressing otherwise we are just cannon fodder half the time.  I think if you're doing that then the three in midfield need to be high energy players, which rules out Clayton, Wing and Saville.  Clayton doesn't have the legs to do it, Wing isn't athletic enough to run around all over the place and Saville is really one paced.  I might even consider playing Dijksteel in there because you need more attacking fullbacks and that's not him but he does seem like someone who could get around the middle of the park breaking up play and that.   I'm probably clutching at straws though.

We're a mess, I think everyone agrees with that basic point.  I think the football we're playing is as bad as the stuff from last season, primarily because we don't seem to really know what to do.  We cede possession but don't really have a counter attack, we stopped the pressing but play a formation that I'd say is designed for pressing,  We play direct to a forward who isn't really adept at that type of play.  We want our fullbacks to attack but they aren't very good at it but we still play the same 4-3-3 anyway.  If Woodgate believes in the pressing stuff then we should be doing it every game and the players should be improving at fulfilling their roles in that type of system.  Abandoning it seems daft when you aren't replacing it with something better.  Abandoning it when you don't really have a clue what to replace it with just feels like outright panic to me.

Heartfelt and well observed comments, CT. Good to have you back, even if it's only a brief visit!

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Get Aitor on the phone !!  The book does stop with the manager.  Lazy.  Lethargic.  Players not knowing their roles.  Dijksteel belongs in the youth set up.  Shotton huddles off the ball at every opp. Ayala the best of a poor bunch but he deffo shaded and under par. 
 

I could go thru the entire team.....but there is only one polarised nuclear option and don’t tell me this ship has already sailed.  
 

Aitor is sitting by his phone.  He knows it’s coming. 

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Just a quick question and touched upon very briefly earlier in the thread.

Why is it that teams like Crystal Palace, Watford, Norwich (though unsure about them at this time) Wolves, Burnley, Leicester City, Bournemouth, Brighton, all teams of comparable sizes and one's we used to compete with on a regular basis, are doing so much better than MFC?

Is it because each and every other team does have a board of directors instead of a dictatorship like we have?

Are they really a more attractive destination for a football player?

Have they all had better backing in terms of recruitment and Management?

There was a time when perhaps we could consider Boro being a bigger club than some others mentioned but not anymore?

Is SG the constant factor in all of this?

With results now known over the weekend it will not be long before Huddersfield, Stoke, not going to say Barnsley as they seem in trouble and are a yo yo club in this division and below, catch us up and put us into the bottom 3.

Just how far have we fallen compared to all the above?

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19 minutes ago, HelensBORO said:

Get Aitor on the phone !!  The book does stop with the manager.  Lazy.  Lethargic.  Players not knowing their roles.  Dijksteel belongs in the youth set up.  Shotton huddles off the ball at every opp. Ayala the best of a poor bunch but he deffo shaded and under par. 
 

I could go thru the entire team.....but there is only one polarised nuclear option and don’t tell me this ship has already sailed.  
 

Aitor is sitting by his phone.  He knows it’s coming. 

Welcome to the forum HB just a pity our plight has made you join the forum and to voice your concerns

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I’d been on many years ago.  Just couldn’t remember the details !!! Was trying to get logged in last few weeks but just gave up and new account.   
 

There is another constant factor also not mentioned.   Neil Bausor. The deals this man has struck has been below standard. I took personal note when a fan following another club of similar stature that their delight in his club pulling his pants down at every opportunity. 
 

We don’t have a team of top table directors scrutinising every thread of every decision.  This is football.  A business.  Just a couple of guys (and nothing wrong in this) doing their best in their vested interest.  However Football has moved on.  Boro it appears...havnt. 

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Too many sideways passes. Don’t think McNair, Clayton and Howson can play as a 3. What next how about a 3-5-2 formation Britt needs support. Ayala, Shotton and Fry as 3 at the back. Shotton was exposed every time Friday night (he did well considering)

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59 minutes ago, SouthernSmoggie said:

Why do we always look so slow? I swear I watch us so often and our lads look like they're running in treacle (with the obvious exception of Adama).

Do we just have slow players? Unfit? Or is it positioning and tactics?

ive noticed this too , well a  similar version of it.  we seem to telegraph each pass , its almost like were sending a strobe light in the direction its going prior to passing it.  were so easy to read .  as much as ive defended Clayton , hes the worst for this.  

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1 hour ago, Boro said:

Too many sideways passes. Don’t think McNair, Clayton and Howson can play as a 3. What next how about a 3-5-2 formation Britt needs support. Ayala, Shotton and Fry as 3 at the back. Shotton was exposed every time Friday night (he did well considering)

Yeah I thought Shotton moved across and covered well at times. 

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1 hour ago, Essuuaitch said:

ive noticed this too , well a  similar version of it.  we seem to telegraph each pass , its almost like were sending a strobe light in the direction its going prior to passing it.  were so easy to read .  as much as ive defended Clayton , hes the worst for this.  

Same I don’t think we ever seemed to play football like other bigger budget teams, our passing for years has always seemed a bit ragged, a bit laboured, never really that fluid, I’ve never sat there and been impressed at us zipping the ball around, countering at pace or putting together multiple good moves per game. Even under karanka we were like that mostly but at least back then we dictated and controlled almost every home game.

I always remember when we played against Blackpool the season they went up, they played the quickest one touch football I’d seen for ages, absolutely tore us apart and I was just sat there wishing we could play like that. I had that down as the single most impressive away performance I could remember until we got promoted and played liverpool! 

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