January transfer window 19/20 season Post Mortem

[TeaCider24 12,644]

Back to the actual point of the thread, I'd sooner sign Jordan Jones than Ravel Morrison, even though both have significant off the field issues.

Jones is younger and has ties to the area, though it's worrying how he seems to have fallen out with Steven Gerrard.

[Changing Times 12,347]

7 minutes ago, TeaCider24 said:

Homophobic insults were very commonplace in the past, British society has moved on to the point where it's no longer acceptable and most people are aware of that now.

I'm the same age as Morrison, when I was in school "gay" and "faggot" were insults that people used as often as the standard swear words and not everyone who said it was a dyed in the wool bigot. He'd barely left school when he sent that tweet.

LGBT acceptance and the general attitude towards the harm words can cause has came on leaps and bounds in the last decade.

What Morrison said was 100% homophobic, but I'm not having that calling someone a "faggot" in 2012 should be reason to brand him a homophobe for life and cross him off as a potential signing.

Homophobic insults are still common.

I have no idea if he's a homophobe but I don't believe you actually care whether he is or isn't, that's the context of my posts.  I might be being unfair to you in that regard, and if so I apologise unreservedly, but people have a habit of looking the other way when it comes to footballers, at least when they have some connection to your football club.  A different football club and it's a different matter of course.  

[Changing Times 12,347]

13 minutes ago, Tom said:

You can find a new forum to post on then.

You post so little these days I thought you might have done just that yourself 🙂

 

[TeaCider24 12,644]

1 minute ago, Changing Times said:

Homophobic insults are still common.

I have no idea if he's a homophobe but I don't believe you actually care whether he is or isn't, that's the context of my posts.  I might be being unfair to you in that regard, and if so I apologise unreservedly, but people have a habit of looking the other way when it comes to footballers, at least when they have some connection to your football club.  A different football club and it's a different matter of course.  

They're still common, but they're now seen as completely unacceptable, as is homophobia.

20 years ago, somebody being gay was an acceptable punchline to a joke in TV and movies. You'd by rightly ostracised for even trying it as a joke in public now.

 

It's clearly not that at all. You're just trying and cause an argument for the sake of it.

If I didn't care if he was homophobic, I wouldn't have written my posts in the first place trying to provide reasonable doubt that he might not be.

I have no interest in us signing him based on his football, and I have even less interest in us signing him based on the issues surrounding him off the pitch.

If he's an open homophobe, then the club should steer well clear of him, but all this is based off one tweet that he sent in response to someone threatening to punch him 12 years ago.

 

[Changing Times 12,347]

1 minute ago, TeaCider24 said:

They're still common, but they're now seen as completely unacceptable, as is homophobia.

20 years ago, somebody being gay was an acceptable punchline to a joke in TV and movies. You'd by rightly ostracised for even trying it as a joke in public now.

 

It's clearly not that at all. You're just trying and cause an argument for the sake of it.

If I didn't care if he was homophobic, I wouldn't have written my posts in the first place trying to provide reasonable doubt that he might not be.

I have no interest in us signing him based on his football, and I have even less interest in us signing him based on the issues surrounding him off the pitch.

If he's an open homophobe, then the club should steer well clear of him, but all this is based off one tweet that he sent in response to someone threatening to punch him 12 years ago.

 

Of course I am just trying to start an argument, which is why I said if I was wrong about your point of view then I'd apologise unreservedly.  You're obviously not defending him simply because he has been linked with us and you'd be doing that wherever he was in the same circumstances so fair play to you and my take on your stance was completely wrong 👍

 

[TeaCider24 12,644]

4 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

Of course I am just trying to start an argument, which is why I said if I was wrong about your point of view then I'd apologise unreservedly.  You're obviously not defending him simply because he has been linked with us and you'd be doing that wherever he was in the same circumstances so fair play to you and my take on your stance was completely wrong 👍

 

I'm defending him because somebody brought it up as a reason not to sign him when we're in to do so, that's it.

Of course I'm not going to randomly start defending him if he's being linked with Doncaster.

I'm done with discussing the matter, as I'm sure every other poster will be glad to read.

[Old Codger 3,064]

Some people grow up, some don't..if he comes and plays for us, we should judge him from that moment on, he has obviously had his problems in the past but I would think that many of us look back and think "was I really that stupid/immature?" when we think of some of the things we have done in life...Conversely, it is said that Mr. Hitler was a dog-loving vegetarian, so just because he is a nice guy in some areas does not mean he is the sort of person you want to have around....he seems to have reached the stage where he is more or less a dead man walking in football terms but it is a situation that is a no-brainer in a way. if he messes up, he is out, if he doesn't, we get the services of a player who could be a matchwinner...it is up to him whether Woody puts him in the team or just says Adios and I am sure that will already have been made very clear   

[Changing Times 12,347]

1 minute ago, TeaCider24 said:

I'm defending him because somebody brought it up as a reason not to sign him when we're in to do so, that's it.

Of course I'm not going to randomly start defending him if he's being linked with Doncaster.

That's me done discussing the matter.

Now you are ignoring the meaning of my post.  Of course you aren't going to start randomly defending him if he's being linked to Doncaster, I was saying that your opinion of him would be exactly the same whether he was being linked to us or someone else, hence my initial belief was wrong.

[Changing Times 12,347]

3 minutes ago, Old Codger said:

Some people grow up, some don't..if he comes and plays for us, we should judge him from that moment on, he has obviously had his problems in the past but I would think that many of us look back and think "was I really that stupid/immature?" when we think of some of the things we have done in life...Conversely, it is said that Mr. Hitler was a dog-loving vegetarian, so just because he is a nice guy in some areas does not mean he is the sort of person you want to have around....he seems to have reached the stage where he is more or less a dead man walking in football terms but it is a situation that is a no-brainer in a way. if he messes up, he is out, if he doesn't, we get the services of a player who could be a matchwinner...it is up to him whether Woody puts him in the team or just says Adios and I am sure that will already have been made very clear   

I imagine that same thing has been made clear to him by other clubs.  

[Old Codger 3,064]

I think the odds are against him  but does that mean we shouldn't take the short term gamble...it is not as though we are going to give him a five year contract or pay 15 million for him..we either win or lose but we are not investing that much in real terms when you compare it to some of our "bargains"

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

He must be an absolute beast of a footballer on his day for clubs at even the 2nd highest level of domestic English football to keep taking chances on him, like, most players who *** about with their career and don't take it seriously would be playing non-league football by now at best. He's made a public profile that clubs will want absolutely nothing to do with, the kind of background no club wants to deal with behind the scenes in terms of turning up whenever he wants and he still has teams chasing him at 27 after all this time of delivering absolutely nothing on a pitch when and where it matters.

What can you even say to it? That people still want to pay this lad money to develop a career that should be in its peak right now? When you think about how footballers capitalise on the huge amounts of money in the game there are things you take as givens in terms of the sacrifices they make to do it and this lad doesn't agree with making those sacrifices. And yet people still want to give him a chance.

Again, got to give the lad a chance if he comes onto the pitch for us as I probably always will but how are we even concerning ourselves with this circus of a player?

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

I would genuinely go so far as to say even a club at our level shouldn't just incentivise his paycheck on games played and goals scored/assisted, I'd be doing it based on turning up to training, I'd be offering him the lowest possible basic salary and make it so that if he wanted to live the footballer's lifestyle and earn as such, he literally had to take the footballer's life seriously.

[Old Codger 3,064]

Merson, Mido, Ramirez, Branco, Ravanelli, Gascoigne, ....it is what we do, and once in a blue moon, it pays off

[Dynamo Kev 1,558]

1 hour ago, Boro Scot said:

I think Woody is just building a team with issues who might unite....he's got Escape to Victory in mind. Get a crew of players with varying degrees of lawlessness etc and they'll unite and conquer. Or that could just be complete ***

yes i like this idea, bit like what Holloway did at blackpool. get a rag tag bunch together and something clicks in place for them. 

[LinoJo3 3,191]

Bit boring but here’s a video of his touches during his sheff utd debut, gets an assist and mainly just knocks the ball around. Not much to see but gives a feel of how he plays, seems to be playing a deeper almost Mikel type role here at times.

Looks to me like he will be one of them who looks quality on the ball and does naff all when he doesn’t have it.