Changing Times 12,338 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Borodane said: Wouldn’t selling Randolph for 5 million this year count massively towards FFP. We get income instead of paying the remaining money owed to west ham. For example 5 million in instead of 1,5 million out? The remaining money to be paid is irrelevant. On our books he essentially counts for £1.25m of expenditure per season (4 year contract, £5m transfer fee). Obviously it would depend on the amount we sold him for though of course. If we sold Tavernier for £5m then it would be all profit, if we sold Randolph for £5m then the profit would be the that fee minus the book value amount so it would be less, that was the point I was trying to make. Say it ends up being about £3.75m, it's not really a huge amount is it in the great scheme of things. In terms of actual cash flow though, whatever we sell him for is what we get. It's not a massive difference, it was just an observation. Link to post Share on other sites
TAPOUT 361 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 38 minutes ago, Changing Times said: The accounts don't seem to show that, at least from what I can see? Certainly the set we can see from the end of Jun 2018 anyway. The set we can't see from the end of Jun 2019 must include the sales of Traore, Gibson and Bamford, Fabio and Barragan. Even factoring in amortisation, Gibson's fee counts as pure profit of £15m doesn't it? Traore's must be something close to £17m profit and Bamford will be at least few million as well, possibly as much as £6m? We still had the TV revenue in that season and our only player coming in was Saville, which would see £7m spread out over 4 years or whatever. Obviously we still had the existing players amortisation to include, which I reckon would be around £14m perhaps? Assombalonga, Braithwaite, Fletcher, Downing, Gestede, Howson, McNair, Randolph, Flint, Johnson, Shotton. This is all back of a fag packet stuff like I appreciate that. I can see that this season could be an issue in isolation as we'll still have some of that amortisation to include, minus Braithwaite, Flint and Downing, but across those three seasons I'd be surprised if we accumulated losses for FFP above £39m? Maybe there is a concern that future periods will be screwed up by this season if this season is indeed the problem rather than previous seasons? To put it into context though, selling say Randolph doesn't effect FFP a great deal really. It would be a couple million at most difference, which doesn't seem like enough if there are major FFP issues. Even selling Assombalonga wouldn't make that much difference if it's FFP we're struggling with rather than cash flow etc. Or is this analysis complete rubbish? 🤓🙂 Not rubbish at all. Maybe assuming Gibson is happy to lose £39m over 3 years is presumptuous now given his history of backing managers to the hilt. I think he is aiming for self sufficiency, whether this is to make the club more attractive to a buyer or he genuinely wants to run the club in a more sustainable way. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BearSmog 1,382 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites
LinoJo3 3,191 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 hour ago, wilsoncgp said: TBF, he played at the Riverside earlier in the season for Wigan and I didn't rate him so certainly seems like it may have been a dodged bullet. Yeah but now he’s scored a goal which suddenly means he is messi, any past season form is irrelevant. Link to post Share on other sites
TAPOUT 361 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Just now, BearSmog said: Well it was either this or watching celebrities singing in bumble bee costumes on the box. I found this more interesting as Lurker, Sds, Diggerlad,DZ et al have all left the building. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Changing Times 12,338 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, TAPOUT said: Not rubbish at all. Maybe assuming Gibson is happy to lose £39m over 3 years is presumptuous now given his history of backing managers to the hilt. I think he is aiming for self sufficiency, whether this is to make the club more attractive to a buyer or he genuinely wants to run the club in a more sustainable way. Oh yeah I agree with that but my point is that the formula that works out the FFP loss should actually be lower than an actual loss faced by the business, if you see what I mean? So if he wants the business to be sustainable then we'd actually have to be even more self-restricting than the FFP allowed amounts. The last set of published accounts showed a loss of about £6.5m for the year. In terms of FFP that's not a massive problem but in terms of reality it's a loss of £6.5m and is a problem if you want to be sustainable. I don't know, I'm just using guesswork really, I just find it difficult to see how we could be ok in terms of cash flow but stuffed in terms of FFP. Link to post Share on other sites
Changing Times 12,338 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 10 minutes ago, BearSmog said: 😭😭😭 Shut up, your face is boring 🖕 Link to post Share on other sites
Maccarone 265 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Sunday always brings new info from the ITK posters,let tomorrow be no exception boys. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BearSmog 1,382 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 51 minutes ago, Changing Times said: 😭😭😭 Shut up, your face is boring 🖕 Link to post Share on other sites
SzilardNemethsCurtains 2,844 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 hour ago, LinoJo3 said: Yeah but now he’s scored a goal which suddenly means he is messi, any past season form is irrelevant. To be fair both instances are based on judging a player on one performance if going by the initial post. Link to post Share on other sites
TAPOUT 361 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Changing Times said: Oh yeah I agree with that but my point is that the formula that works out the FFP loss should actually be lower than an actual loss faced by the business, if you see what I mean? So if he wants the business to be sustainable then we'd actually have to be even more self-restricting than the FFP allowed amounts. The last set of published accounts showed a loss of about £6.5m for the year. In terms of FFP that's not a massive problem but in terms of reality it's a loss of £6.5m and is a problem if you want to be sustainable. I don't know, I'm just using guesswork really, I just find it difficult to see how we could be ok in terms of cash flow but stuffed in terms of FFP. Who knows really. It may be the club managing expectations, not only of fans but of clubs, agents and players. Whilst the wage bill has come down, if rumours are correct Gestede, Britt and Randolph account for 25% of the £21m. If these are moved out, in addition to the other 6 who are out of contract I am sure we will start investing again. Just not with the liabilities we have accepted in the past. Link to post Share on other sites
LinoJo3 3,191 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Also another important factor missing from all of this is budgeting for future seasons. What we spend even now will impact next years ffp. Link to post Share on other sites
Downsouth 6,326 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 I love all things related to ffp……………………….not! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Denzel Zanzibar 6,968 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 10 hours ago, TAPOUT said: Well it was either this or watching celebrities singing in bumble bee costumes on the box. I found this more interesting as Lurker, Sds, Diggerlad,DZ et al have all left the building. I was watching the Masked Singer, I watched the US version, ours seems a lot more watered down, the costumes aren't as detailed and the clue packages are a lot sparser. Still good fun though. (Oh god i'm turning into KM) Link to post Share on other sites
Smoggydownsouth 1,621 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Doubt I will have any info good or bad today as not at the game. If I do get anything it wont be until this evening once its all done and dusted. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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