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January transfer window 19/20 season Post Mortem

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4 hours ago, LewisBoroPalfrey said:

I'd love gibson back, left footed and a nice little back 5 all from the academy. I hope we're still looking for an attacking player for the left side so we could play tav in the midfield 3 feel like he's more suited to that role driving forward with the ball as opposed to beating the fullback. 

lineup (3).png

Be nice to have someone who could cut in on the left to compliment Roberts on the other side, both full backs could overlap and Howson covering for Spence while Gibbo shifts across

That's exactly what I'd love to see. Dont think Tav has been as good last couple of matches when moved further forward. Howson is far more mobile and hopefully has picked up some better defensive nous so could fill that role well. Wing could challenge Mcnair/Tav with Clayton/Saville playing backups. 

As you say it does kinda scream out for a left sided attacking player although no reason Fletcher / Nemecha couldn't fill that role and have another look in the summer. 

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6 hours ago, Changing Times said:

The goal that ended him at Augsburg?  I'm not going to quibble with this as such because you sound like you know far more about him than me, but a quick look at this season's stats would suggest that it wasn't down to any one incident.  He's had a couple of 15 min sub appearances this season and two starts.  All told he's played just over 300 mins of football this season so he's certainly not a regular who is being banished because of a mistake.  Not being Bundesliga ready sounds like a polite way of saying he isn't good enough to me?  They don't have a huge amount of money invested in him so there's really no good reason for them to get rid of him unless there are serious question marks about his ability or some off the field stuff.  Similarly, West Ham accepted a low fee for a player of such apparent huge potential, which seems odd when they didn't have lots of money tied up in him.  The last time he played representative football for any of the young England sides was in 2017 if I'm looking at this correctly.  That seems a long time ago for a youth international who is still only 21.

I'd say that he simply hasn't kicked on at all from the potential he showed when he first came through or there are issues with him outside of football that have been holding him back.  Either way, this would appear to be a bit of a reclamation project to me and we should treat it in those terms.

So I've been reading through Augsburg press from the period to kind of get a sense of things, the plan with Oxford was very much to ease him into the team he was the managers project and then things started looking iffy where he'd get caught on the ball or make a loose pass the fans lost patience with him quickly, the manager tried him in midfield instead when he would sub him on and then his substitute appearances vs Schalke where he lost them the game late on just killed his career there from then on they say the coach 'gave up on the project' and because like a lot of German teams Augsburg have a huge squad they just want to move on from him into the next project. I agree he's had a very odd career but besides the times where Bilic would call him out for his attitude in training there hasn't really been a whiff of behind the scenes trouble. I think he might have had a couple of bad injuries in recent years as well keeping him out for months on end maybe that's contributed to the stop start feel of his CV.

I can't find full footage of the Harit goal from November that has caused him to be frozen out but he runs flat out trying to catch and atone for his mistake. I don't think what he did is deserving of the response he's gotten from it over there to be honest. The only footage on YouTube of it shows 80% of the goal but cuts away from the pass it sounds crazy but this 1 error has caused Augsburg to cast him away for 3 months and welcome loan to buy offers for essentially a money back price.

 

Edited by Jamie-H

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https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/18171213.frys-burnley-radar--/

Echo confirm the anticipation of a Burnley move for Fry, sneak in interest from Villa in Britt this window and semi talk-up the Gibson stuff.

The quotes in there at the bottom from Fry are brilliant as well I'd hope anyone whose criticised him this season give them a look he's not the owner's nephew but pretty clear he's a Boro lad his comments on his own form and the teams struggles adapting were as honest as it gets I hope he doesn't go and I hope we don't do a vanity signing of Gibson either on one hand we're cutting costs on the other hand we're apparently wanting a high earner back who we sold for 15 million to finish 12th only Boro could conjure such brilliant logic.

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7 minutes ago, Jamie-H said:

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/18171213.frys-burnley-radar--/

Echo confirm the anticipation of a Burnley move for Fry, sneak in interest from Villa in Britt this window and semi talk-up the Gibson stuff.

The quotes in there at the bottom from Fry are brilliant as well I'd hope anyone whose criticised him this season give them a look he's not the owner's nephew but pretty clear he's a Boro lad his comments on his own form and the teams struggles adapting were as honest as it gets I hope he doesn't go and I hope we don't do a vanity signing of Gibson either on one hand we're cutting costs on the other hand we're apparently wanting a high earner back who we sold for 15 million to finish 12th only Boro could conjure such brilliant logic.

I dont want to say too much here.... trust me when I say if he returns on loan we wont pay all wages and if he joins on a perm in summer he will fall into line on wage structure.... all ifs and buts at the minute.

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Just now, Smoggydownsouth said:

I dont want to say too much here.... trust me when I say if he returns on loan we wont pay all wages and if he joins on a perm in summer he will fall into line on wage structure.... all ifs and buts at the minute.

Also I'm not sure Ayala news is going to be great... was told between 8-12 weeks but that was before his scan which I honestly dont know outcome of.

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12 minutes ago, Smoggydownsouth said:

I dont want to say too much here.... trust me when I say if he returns on loan we wont pay all wages and if he joins on a perm in summer he will fall into line on wage structure.... all ifs and buts at the minute.

Ok but besides being Steve Gibson's nephew can anyone justify why we'd swap out a 22 year old Dael Fry on half the wages for a bloke we sold for a very good fee on double the wages plus some and who is 5 years older and more limited?

If what everyone's been hearing about Gibson on here is true and we essentially write off fees owed to make him 'permanent' as some have suggested what good does that do us? We're meant to be in desperate need of cash so we bring back the 15 million pound asset we sold sell the 22 year old asset meanwhile we still will have no CBs come the summer if Ayala leaves and Gibson ends up being a 5 month loan to finish 12th.

I could be wrong, I probably am, but we are not ran that badly to make the sequence of decisions I laid out above there is no way we're going to cook the books in times of tight budgets like we did with Downing just to bring Gibson back and sell Fry to fund it it makes zero sense.

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12 minutes ago, Smoggydownsouth said:

Also I'm not sure Ayala news is going to be great... was told between 8-12 weeks but that was before his scan which I honestly dont know outcome of.

Oh dear, this sounds like another Ayala mystery seasonal injury.

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5 minutes ago, Jamie-H said:

Ok but besides being Steve Gibson's nephew can anyone justify why we'd swap out a 22 year old Dael Fry on half the wages for a bloke we sold for a very good fee on double the wages plus some and who is 5 years older and more limited?

If what everyone's been hearing about Gibson on here is true and we essentially write off fees owed to make him 'permanent' as some have suggested what good does that do us? We're meant to be in desperate need of cash so we bring back the 15 million pound asset we sold sell the 22 year old asset meanwhile we still will have no CBs come the summer if Ayala leaves and Gibson ends up being a 5 month loan to finish 12th.

I could be wrong, I probably am, but we are not ran that badly to make the sequence of decisions I laid out above there is no way we're going to cook the books in times of tight budgets like we did with Downing just to bring Gibson back and sell Fry to fund it it makes zero sense.

Please dont think we are selling Fry to bring in Gibson. We want them both at the club. The fact is we are now a selling club... if the money is right for any player they will be allowed to leave.

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8 minutes ago, Denzel Zanzibar said:

Oh dear, this sounds like another Ayala mystery seasonal injury.

Honestly dont know the outcome of his scan so cant pass comment apart from what I was told 10 days ago. Hope I'm wrong 

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4 minutes ago, Smoggydownsouth said:

Honestly dont know the outcome of his scan so cant pass comment apart from what I was told 10 days ago. Hope I'm wrong 

As good as Ayala is his injury record is not good. I'm not sure we should be offering him a new contract. 

Bring back Gibbo, keep Fry, loan in another CB.

 

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Maybe loaning Oxford in is to see if he is a suitable replacement for Ayala.

Also considering were meant to be a "selling club" now were doing a pretty crap job of it considering we've let 7 players contracts run down to the last 6 months

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30 minutes ago, Smoggydownsouth said:

Please dont think we are selling Fry to bring in Gibson. We want them both at the club. The fact is we are now a selling club... if the money is right for any player they will be allowed to leave.

We've always been a selling club if the price is right no one has ever thought we weren't right? It was 8 years ago Mowbray was pleading for people to buy pints and pies to help his budgets. My issue isn't so much with selling if the money is right with Fry I remember the murmurs in the summer was we wanted double and some what Burnley offered (8 million) so if that kind of ballpark 15-16 million comes in now I imagine we'd probably sell him. My issue is we make all these great strides financially by selling Randolph, selling Flint, selling Braithwaite, selling Bamford, cutting Downing loose and then the first shiny object that comes along in Ben Gibson and everyone (apparently including his uncle) just thinks we need him right now for a 12th placed push? I get you're saying him and Fry deals aren't linked but Dyche is king of shithousery it's no coincidence he's said all window he needs 4 CBs so Gibson's going nowhere and now suddenly the Fry talks popped up as the Gibson rumours heated up lately, 1 in and 1 out is how he'll view it we won't get what we supposedly want unless Dyche gets what he wants I just don't see it.

I see the logic from Dyche in trading out Gibson for Fry the days of Gibson playing for England and being sold up the League for 40/50 million are gone but you get Fry for 15 million he's a ballplayer who can step into midfield with the ball not hard to see how high his pricetag can go in 2 years time. I just don't get where the sense is at all in taking Gibson back it doesn't get us anywhere even if they owe us 8 million on him and we take him back on a write off I'd rather just take the 8 million or whatever they owe over time and sign a new CB for 2-3 million at most if needs be I'd say this about us signing any CB on the wages and for the fee Gibson would cost in this league you just do not need to invest silly money in defenders in my opinion and Gibbo is in the silly money bracket for fee and wages I don't like it at all.

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32 minutes ago, Jamie-H said:

Ok but besides being Steve Gibson's nephew can anyone justify why we'd swap out a 22 year old Dael Fry on half the wages for a bloke we sold for a very good fee on double the wages plus some and who is 5 years older and more limited?

If what everyone's been hearing about Gibson on here is true and we essentially write off fees owed to make him 'permanent' as some have suggested what good does that do us? We're meant to be in desperate need of cash so we bring back the 15 million pound asset we sold sell the 22 year old asset meanwhile we still will have no CBs come the summer if Ayala leaves and Gibson ends up being a 5 month loan to finish 12th.

I could be wrong, I probably am, but we are not ran that badly to make the sequence of decisions I laid out above there is no way we're going to cook the books in times of tight budgets like we did with Downing just to bring Gibson back and sell Fry to fund it it makes zero sense.

I thnnk you are overthinking it a bit. It doesn't sound like we want to sell Fry to finance a deal for Gibson. However we will accept a bid for Fry if it's above our valuation. If some desperate PL club swoops in and offers, say, 15 million we'd be mad not to accept as there is no way he is worth that much. Fry has yet to reach the levels Gibson showed while with us, so a match fit Gibson is better than Fry's current level. I really don't want to lose Fry as I think he has a great future with us. I want them both and it sounds doable. Defering the last 4.3 million payments from Burnley isn't the best, but a total deal for 6 million for Gibson sounds almost unbelievable and if he falls in line with the current wage structure we should be all over that. At 26 he has at least 7 good years in him and might even make himself attractive to another big move if we aren't promoted.

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4 minutes ago, mj south said:

Maybe loaning Oxford in is to see if he is a suitable replacement for Ayala.

Also considering were meant to be a "selling club" now were doing a pretty crap job of it considering we've let 7 players contracts run down to the last 6 months

Thats a bit harsh. You can only sell if there is interest and we can't just offer the players the same terms. Of the players out of contract I'm only interested in keeping Ayala and Howson anyway if they agree to reduced terms in line with the financial realities. The rest aren't really good enough and wouldn't ever command a decent fee. I'm sure we would have gladly sold players like Clayton, Gestede and Johnson in the summer if any other teams wanted them.

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3 minutes ago, Borodane said:

Thats a bit harsh. You can only sell if there is interest and we can't just offer the players the same terms. Of the players out of contract I'm only interested in keeping Ayala and Howson anyway if they agree to reduced terms in line with the financial realities. The rest aren't really good enough and wouldn't ever command a decent fee. I'm sure we would have gladly sold players like Clayton, Gestede and Johnson in the summer if any other teams wanted them.

But we knew there contract were running down before this season started and talks with these players regarding contracts should have been held pre season and those who wouldn't sign new deals should have been moved on in the summer, ok I agree moving on Shotton, Gestede and Johnson was tried but Clayton, Howson and in particular Ayala would of still commanded half decent fees

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