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I didn't particularly want rid of Saville in the summer, new manager, everyone deserves a chance to prove their critics wrong.

Now he'd be near the top of my list of sacrifices. It hurts a lot knowing how much we spent on him and how little we'll likely get from selling him, people talk about Gestede being our worst ever signing, at least we needed attacking players when we signed him. We categorically did not need another centre mid and yet we spent £7m on one who didn't improve our team and could only get in the team in the end at left back.

Now he's playing in his preferred position and he seems to constantly limit us in some way. Honestly think we'd be better off playing him up front because the only decent thing he's really done whilst he's been here is having a good shot on him, his passing is nothing worth shouting about, his tackling is poor, his movement is on and off, and he's basically all one foot.

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18 hours ago, TeaCider24 said:

How did Pears perform on the day?

The text coverage of the match was terrible by the club, did he actually make any notable saves? He had nothing to do in the previous two games, so I'm not sure if he's any good.

I'd sell Randolph for a profit if Pears proves to be solid. Randolph is brilliant for us, but he's a valuable asset and the club's financial situation sounds more and more worrying by the day.

According to the BBC's Final Score reporter Pears made a number of good saves to limit Derby to just 2 goals. Sounded like he put in much more of a shift than our defence. ☹️

 

The stats back that up: Derby had 10 shots on target...but only scored twice.

 

Edited by AnglianRed

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22 hours ago, SmogDane said:

But did Pulis steady the ship .. When he took over, we were just outside the play off spots and had a still happy Braithwaite and other quality players ... 

If a Jockanowich type of manager had been given that half a season .. we might have been promoted, which would have fixed a lot of economic trouble for the club.. 

Gibson has a tendency of pulling the hand break at the wrong times .. The January window when we were a prem team .. And when Monk turned out a failure .. 

Karanka should have had the 50m, not Monk. 

But when Monk had splashed the cash .. we shouldn't have pulled the hand break with Pulis .. We should have hired a quality offensive manager who would have taken us up! If that failed .. then we could pull the handbreak .. 10-20 m more that season .. on a quality manager and maybe a winger, wouldn't have been worse than giving Pulis the most expensive salary in the history of Boro!

Oh I wasn't arguing that Pulis was the right man for the job at that time...I was just saying the type of manager he is.

I agree that, sadly, Gibson has fallen prey to the common disease of knee jerk reactions...pretty much ever since McLaren left.

I honestly would've liked to see him keep faith in Karanka after we got relegated, try to keep the squad together (or make whatever changes were deemed necessary) and bounce straight back. After all he was another rookie manager, but one who did a hell of a lot better than we had any right to expect.

Actually I still don't understand why he got rid of Southgate when he did.

Did the fan reactions get to him? Was it the dressing room bust-ups? Whatever, I think we were on to a good thing and that we should have given them time to grow and improve as managers.

I can see why he got rid of Monk. We may have been just outside the play-offs, but his record read P23 W10 D5 L8. If we'd kept up those kind of stats, we would have finished top 10 at best. Not bad, but not the return you expect after splashing £50m and stating you're going to "smash the league".

 

Interesting comparison of the managers we've had since McLaren. Their records during the seasons they were sacked (minus Karanka and Pulis who left at the end of the season) read as follows:

 

2009-10....Southgate P13 W7 D2 L4 (WR 54%)

2010-11....Strachan P12 W3 D2 L7 (WR 25%)

2013-14....Mowbray P12 W2 D6 L4 (WR 16%)

2017-18....Monk P23 W10 D5 L8 (WR 43%)

 

...and now we have...

2019-20....Woodgate P15 W2 D6 L7 (WR 13%)

 

...will he survive the season? 

 

 

Edited by AnglianRed
correct dates & some spelling
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24 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

...and now we have...

2019-20....Woodgate P15 W2 D6 L7 (WR 13%)

...will he survive the season? 

Given Southgate survived after 3 years in the Prem followed by relegation, I'd think so. I imagine the criteria for Woody to be sacked will essentially be if things don't turn around in League One.

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Pears made WhoScored team of the week, so he must have been good statistically at the very least.

Edited by TeaCider24
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18 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

Given Southgate survived after 3 years in the Prem followed by relegation, I'd think so. I imagine the criteria for Woody to be sacked will essentially be if things don't turn around in League One.

What a frightening thought because if we do go into Laegue One I do not believe things will turn round for MFC.

Relegation will be a disaster

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1 hour ago, Downsouth said:

What a frightening thought because if we do go into Laegue One I do not believe things will turn round for MFC.

Relegation will be a disaster

The last relegation has proved to be pretty disastrous, and I can't see why a second one would somehow steady the ship. If it ultimately comes to that, Gibson really has lowered his ambitions.

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19 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

Given Southgate survived after 3 years in the Prem followed by relegation, I'd think so. I imagine the criteria for Woody to be sacked will essentially be if things don't turn around in League One.

Being relegated to League 1 this season would put Woody as one of our worst managers of all time (given we have only ever spent two seasons outside of the top 2 leagues in the last 119 years). If that doesn't warrant sacking then I really do give up.

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1 hour ago, Will said:

Being relegated to League 1 this season would put Woody as one of our worst managers of all time (given we have only ever spent two seasons outside of the top 2 leagues in the last 119 years). If that doesn't warrant sacking then I really do give up.

That may be but if we go down this season, I almost certainly won't be calling for Woody's head. I don't see the point in distributing the blame across the different parties when you know for a fact that any and all blame attributed to Woody will take all of the public criticism. The longer things go on whereby the criticism is directed at the manager and not the chairman, the longer we're going to be in this mess.

Gibson needs to own this. He won't own this if fans start shifting the finger of blame to Woodgate. He'll move onto the next man, whoever that may be, and allow them to take it all again and again. If Boro go down and Woodgate is seen as the main fault, does anyone seriously think things will change?

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1 hour ago, wilsoncgp said:

That may be but if we go down this season, I almost certainly won't be calling for Woody's head. I don't see the point in distributing the blame across the different parties when you know for a fact that any and all blame attributed to Woody will take all of the public criticism. The longer things go on whereby the criticism is directed at the manager and not the chairman, the longer we're going to be in this mess.

Gibson needs to own this. He won't own this if fans start shifting the finger of blame to Woodgate. He'll move onto the next man, whoever that may be, and allow them to take it all again and again. If Boro go down and Woodgate is seen as the main fault, does anyone seriously think things will change?

But being a manager of a squad that really should be doing much better certainly warrants plenty of blame. He's still the manager and the team he is managing is woefully underperforming. Do you really think that our squad is the one of the three worst squads in this relatively poor league? He's the manager and rightfully deserves plenty of blame for how the team is set up, underperforms and looks completely lost.

Now with all that said Gibson still deserves plenty of blame too. It's possible to blame both. Gibson for how the club is run and Woodgate for how shitty the team is doing under his watch.

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1 hour ago, wilsoncgp said:

That may be but if we go down this season, I almost certainly won't be calling for Woody's head. I don't see the point in distributing the blame across the different parties when you know for a fact that any and all blame attributed to Woody will take all of the public criticism. The longer things go on whereby the criticism is directed at the manager and not the chairman, the longer we're going to be in this mess.

Gibson needs to own this. He won't own this if fans start shifting the finger of blame to Woodgate. He'll move onto the next man, whoever that may be, and allow them to take it all again and again. If Boro go down and Woodgate is seen as the main fault, does anyone seriously think things will change?

Although I agree Woodgate shouldn't shoulder all the blame if he takes us down with the other issues in play... He certainly isn't blameless should it happen

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26 minutes ago, Borodane said:

But being a manager of a squad that really should be doing much better certainly warrants plenty of blame. He's still the manager and the team he is managing is woefully underperforming. Do you really think that our squad is the one of the three worst squads in this relatively poor league? He's the manager and rightfully deserves plenty of blame for how the team is set up, underperforms and looks completely lost.

Now with all that said Gibson still deserves plenty of blame too. It's possible to blame both. Gibson for how the club is run and Woodgate for how shitty the team is doing under his watch.

It's not possible to blame both and have the spotlight on both, that's my point. Woodgate will be the man blamed for it all if he's blamed for any of it.

It's tough but if you hire a junior with no experience and stick them in one of the top roles in your company, do you give them a significant amount of blame for getting it wrong? Or do you say, you know what, what the hell could he have done better, even with some of the best workers underneath him, a junior is a junior and he can only do what a junior can do. He can get it wrong and learn from it over a period of time or he can strike it lucky. That's without even remotely considering the position he holds in not being able to play football that the club as a whole says they want him to play, but can't provide for.

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1 minute ago, Changing Times said:

I'm getting pretty close to just blaming you, mate  🙂

Elaborate?

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