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Boro V Hull City 2-2 (Tavernier, Fletcher)

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4 minutes ago, Brunners said:

I wasn't trying to defend him merely pointing out that he was asked about that move. 

He clearly felt, for whatever reason, that Tav was the safer defensive option. 

Silver lining is we should see Coulson get a run in the team now.

Let's hope so mate.

I'm just quite surprised that more people are not blaming Woodgate and his tactical subsitutions once again.

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I said I thought that anything other than 6 points from the 2 home games would be a failure, I'll stick by that, talk about a must win game on Wednesday.  

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1 hour ago, Downsouth said:

Soon as it happened I said to my lad that he will be off, there was no need for it at all!

Woodgate as I said had his ready made excuse and has told everyone he blames him for the loss.

Now hopefully someone will blame Woodgate for his lack of management skills. We really could have gone on and won the game even with 10 men

I haven't seen the interview, but if Woody really has made Johnson the scapegoat then I've lost what little respect I had left for him.

Someone needs to remind him that football teams have 11 players...not 1. As others have pointed out, we couldn't score against 10-man Fulham.

Someone should also ask him who picks the team and tactics, since they probably deserve some of the blame too. Not to mention the rest of the outfield players who should know better than to do what they did.

 

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36 minutes ago, diggerlad07 said:

Let's hope so mate.

I'm just quite surprised that more people are not blaming Woodgate and his tactical subsitutions once again.

I understand the sacrificing  a forward, would have been Britt for me btw. Baffled by bringing Clayton on...it was our left wing back who was sent off! Midfield three were working well. He therefore shuffles around at least four players when all he needed to do was bring on Coulson for Britt/Fletch.

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48 minutes ago, diggerlad07 said:

Let's hope so mate.

I'm just quite surprised that more people are not blaming Woodgate and his tactical subsitutions once again.

Mixture of Johnson and Woodgate for me. Unbelievably stupid tackle from Johnson, he’s let the whole club down. However, ultimately we’re 2-0 up and with a smart tactical tweak you’d have thought we could potentially hold on. I understand trying to tighten up the defence by taking off an attacker but surely it was our left side that was weakened. Coulson for fletcher/Britt would’ve made sense, Clayton for Fletcher did not. Part of me thinks it’s easy to say in hindsight but at the time it seemed an odd choice.

I’m still mainly *** at Johnson, though. I was watching that first 35 minutes thinking maybe, just maybe, this could be a turning point for us. Then he does that and with it evaporated any good feeling. Is our season cursed? Almost definitely. 

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BUGGER

That was a bit of a shame, wasn't it 😢

First half was some good stuff and we were a much more confident looking side than you'd think we would be.  The early goal obviously helped a great deal but it felt like a game where we were going to score at some point anyway, which is a bit different to usual.  Our second goal was like watching someone else play, that's how nice it was - clinical, pacey and precise - marvellous!  The sending off obviously changed the game.  No idea what he was thinking making a tackle that high.  I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he lost control of that leg while he was sliding because if that was deliberate it really is an appalling challenge.

Now for a bit of criticism.  The sending off clearly changed the game but I think Woodgate also screwed us as well to be honest.  Clayton on for Fletcher at half time basically allowed Hull to just throw everything they could at us.  To bring on a defensive midfielder while keeping to 5 at the back is overly defensive.  Tavernier essentially playing as a left back in a back five is just plain daft and with only one up front we just couldn't keep the pressure off for any length of time.  This isn't hindsight, although I appreciate that it might look that way, I was really disappointed when I saw that sub.  To me either you bring on Coulson in that situation for Tavernier if you are determined to stick with three central defenders or you switch to a back four, Howson moves to right back, Dijksteel to left back and then you're playing 4-3-2 but asking Fletcher and Assombalonga to take it in turns dropping into midfield.  In any case, I think you have to start the second half with some intent and then see how it goes early on rather than just going defensive immediately and trying to hang on.  I haven't read the thread yet so I might be on my own with this but that's how I saw it anyway.

Such a shame that a game that I'm sure we were going to go on and win has ended up with just a point but it at least bodes well for the future if we can keep playing with more vibrancy when attacking.  Nice to see a couple of different goal scorers and for the first goal we had 5 (F-I-V-E!) players in the opponents penalty area.  We will get out of trouble if we can attack like this on a regular basis.

If.

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3 minutes ago, Changing Times said:

BUGGER

That was a bit of a shame, wasn't it 😢

 

If I had any doubts that you were Anthony Vickers before...

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1 hour ago, Brunners said:

He talks about this in his post match presser.

Went for Tav over Coulson/Bola because they are both attacking players and he felt Tav was better suited for the defensive role.

He actually said that?  He played a midfielder at left back because he's better defensively than the two actual left backs we had on the bench?  What the *** did he want us to sign Bola for then if he thinks a midfielder like Tavernier is a better bet defensively?  That is absolute incompetence.

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18 minutes ago, RealSlimSladeyy said:

If I had any doubts that you were Anthony Vickers before...

If you have any doubts then just consider the fact that my posts are interesting and make sense 🙂

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Such a huge shame. We were so good for 40 minutes and deserved so much more. Also, the squad is so thin, every injury/suspension is going to hurt us double.

I wanted to see Coulson brought on for one of the forwards, didn't really understand Clayton tbh, but the blame is on MJ for putting the team in that position to begin with.

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As people know I been critical of JW this season but cant blame him much for todays result. first 40 mins as @mendieta420 said we were excellent and as good as i have seen us all season.

My one gripe was the introduction of Clayton. I almost felt that meant we were in for a torrid time as there was no one up field to really relieve the pressure. i said it at half time, take off fletcher and bring on Coulson and Let Paddy and Tav Support Britt. I feel that move might have meant we were not so deep but hey ho. Ultimately we lost because of Marv's stupidity.

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3 hours ago, Duvel said:

Yeah the red card changed the game but after that you need your manager to be astute enough to close things out. 

I agree to an extent, I certainly sat there saying there were things we could have changed but it's not like he had an abundance of great options available to him and that's where it enters the 'any manager would have struggled' territory. I don't think a Karanka or a Pulis would have looked at that bench and changed much from that position either which leads me to think it's perhaps a bit harsh on this occasion to pin this entirely on him.

At the same time, I'm just hugely bloody frustrated today. I just don't know who to point the finger at. Johnson is the likeliest candidate but there's so much time left in the game that he can't take all the responsibility. 🤷‍♂️

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4 hours ago, Smoggydownsouth said:

I think that tackle has cost us 3 points and a lot of money in severance pay.

Yes, it was a stupid tackle and he deserved a red card for it. However, all players make mistakes and sometimes they make tackles which are worse than they intended. He probably feels pretty gutted about it. 

Johnson is one of the few players who has actually improved this season. Do you really think he should be dismissed from his job for making that tackle? I think that between the red card, how his team mates may react and the abuse he will get off fans, he is probably being punished enough.

We haven't sacked players in the past for tackles like that, and I don't think we should start doing so now. I am not condoning Johnson's tackle, but I will be extremely unhappy with the club if they terminate Johnson's contract because of it. Does it really constitute gross misconduct? If so, there are a lot of staff who should already be out of a job for making mistakes.

Like others, I think there are questions to be asked about Woodgate's tactics for the rest of the game and whether other players performed as they should have done. Placing all the blame on Johnson, and saying the club need to make a severance payment to him, seems rather harsh.  I appreciate that emotions are raw at the moment, though.

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10 minutes ago, White Band said:

Yes, it was a stupid tackle and he deserved a red card for it. However, all players make mistakes and sometimes they make tackles which are worse than they intended. He probably feels pretty gutted about it. 

Johnson is one of the few players who has actually improved this season. Do you really think he should be dismissed from his job for making that tackle? I think that between the red card, how his team mates may react and the abuse he will get off fans, he is probably being punished enough.

We haven't sacked players in the past for tackles like that, and I don't think we should start doing so now. I am not condoning Johnson's tackle, but I will be extremely unhappy with the club if they terminate Johnson's contract because of it. Does it really constitute gross misconduct? If so, there are a lot of staff who should already be out of a job for making mistakes.

Like others, I think there are questions to be asked about Woodgate's tactics for the rest of the game and whether other players performed as they should have done. Placing all the blame on Johnson, and saying the club need to make a severance payment to him, seems rather harsh.  I appreciate that emotions are raw at the moment, though.

I think you have misinterpreted my comment sir.. I was saying the draw i think is likely to cause another nail in the management coffin hence the severance pay. That said he will be fined 2 weeks wages.

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Just now, Smoggydownsouth said:

I think you have misinterpreted my comment sir.. I was saying the draw i think is likely to cause another nail in the management coffin hence the severance pay. That said he will be fined 2 weeks wages.

Ah. I thought you were talking about Johnson! I will admit that I was surprised because you are normally a pretty rational poster (not one that usually goes round slating players).

I've said before that I honestly think Woodgate is out of his depth and I'm not convinced that the players are fully behind him. He needs to build up more coaching experience and then understudy some good managers before he's ready himself. He has been put in an impossible position by the club and I hope that the club haven't completely wrecked his career.

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