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Boro V Hull City 2-2 (Tavernier, Fletcher)

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1 hour ago, Duvel said:

I'm not talking about changing the game with options on the bench, I'm talking about managing the game by having a better shape defensively and not defending on our penalty spot for 45 minutes. 

Johnson shoulders a great deal of the blame as without the red card Woodgate doesn't have to change from his preset tactics that were working very well up to half time. But I do agree that Woodgate also cost us the 3 points from his choices. 

Games aren't automatically lost just because you go down to 10 men. Plenty of teams are still able to grind out a result. Take a brief look at some games this weekend:

Friday - Levante V Mallorca - Red card in 86th minute and Levante hold onto their 2-1 lead

Saturday:

Bournemouth V Wolves - B'Mouth red card in 37th minute and down 2-0. Ok they finish 2-1 but still didn't capitulate 

Bristol City V Forrest - Forest red card 57th Minute. Game finishes 0-0

Wycombe V Doncaster - Doncaster red card in 49th minute and just lose it by a 92nd minute penalty.....

We looked like conceding the minute we came out at half time. Both Johnson and the manger should take the blame for another 2 points lost. 

Caveat to this post, Bolton were 1-0 up and after a 14th minute red card lost 7-1 to Accrington! Could be worse as well 😉 

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2 hours ago, Duvel said:

I'm not talking about changing the game with options on the bench, I'm talking about managing the game by having a better shape defensively and not defending on our penalty spot for 45 minutes. 

Again, I agree but to a lesser extent. The shape we held was largely hindered by the loss of a man. Losing Fletcher up front really buggered us up going forward, we couldn't feasibly defend from the front any more, Britt was done for at that point. And I think that was our biggest problem, nobody was capable of getting out and stopping the wide-men or from them passing it simply around the back. It was like watching Britt or Hugill last season on their own trying to press from the front. We're already a bit shaky when teams break through our press, yesterday we were alright until the red card, at that point it becomes much more difficult.

50 minutes ago, AnglianRed said:

Exactly.

You don't need to be a tactical genius, or to have special players at your disposal.

All you need is for the players to press the opposition, try and win the ball back, then just keep possession as much as you can.

Instead we were just following the Hull players around and panicking every time they got into our 18 yard box.

Same as above, we could have pressed but pressing is a risk and Hull were already doing a good job of getting round our deep back line, imagine if we gave them more space. The risk was ultimately on us because without Fletcher, we'd lose a midfielder every time we pressed. Maybe a change to a back 4 would have helped more? Maybe if we'd tried to just keep the ball rather than counter at every opportunity we could have played it out? I don't think it's a given, though. I certainly don't think it's as simple as you're making it out to be.

Also, on a separate point (and I don't know if anyone else mentioned this) but if Clayton hadn't got that stupid bloody yellow card for time wasting, I reckon he wipes Bowen out before he gets into a position to shoot from range for the first goal back. Him and Tav are the closest ones to him, Tav couldn't get a grip on him but Clayts came across him and just sort of let him go by with no challenge. I think that's such a pivotal moment in the game, we kept them out for so long with 10 men that my mind was actually sat there thinking "Y'know what, we might actually scrape this", we were getting the rub of the green a little bit, making some really good blocks at the back when needed, Fry and Howson in particular. That goal stung us big time, gave them a little bit more and our heads dropped again. No telling whether they would have got the goals anyway but I think that one is avoidable if Clayton has his 'free shot'.

Edited by wilsoncgp

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I'm late to this but I just wanted to say that I enjoyed the match up until the sending off and if we can play like that there's hope... It's an if though.

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One step forward, then two steps back. Glad we got a point but we shouldn't have folded like we did. 

Two reasons for it. Obviously Johnsons red card. But Woodgates naivety to shut up shop for 45 mins. 

Hindsight is great and we should have had an outlet alongside Britt. But we didnt. 

Also, why not put a LB on and play Tav? Seems strange. 

Also Dijksteele as others have mentioned was all over the place. Woodgate again must shoulder that blame. 

He had 45 mins to show some game management but has allowed Hull to get back into it and for me is another nail on his coffin. 

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On 11/24/2019 at 4:54 PM, Changing Times said:

He actually said that?  He played a midfielder at left back because he's better defensively than the two actual left backs we had on the bench?  What the *** did he want us to sign Bola for then if he thinks a midfielder like Tavernier is a better bet defensively?  That is absolute incompetence.

Sorry late replying to this but yes that is exactly what he said. More specifically he said when asked about having Coulson and Bola on the bench "yes, but they're both attack minded players" (or something very close to that)

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6 hours ago, wilsoncgp said:

Also, on a separate point (and I don't know if anyone else mentioned this) but if Clayton hadn't got that stupid bloody yellow card for time wasting, I reckon he wipes Bowen out before he gets into a position to shoot from range for the first goal back. Him and Tav are the closest ones to him, Tav couldn't get a grip on him but Clayts came across him and just sort of let him go by with no challenge. I think that's such a pivotal moment in the game, we kept them out for so long with 10 men that my mind was actually sat there thinking "Y'know what, we might actually scrape this", we were getting the rub of the green a little bit, making some really good blocks at the back when needed, Fry and Howson in particular. That goal stung us big time, gave them a little bit more and our heads dropped again. No telling whether they would have got the goals anyway but I think that one is avoidable if Clayton has his 'free shot'.

I think you have a valid point here. Clayton would absolutely take a player out to save a goal, but because the ref booked him for trying to time a free kick with a run, he wasn't given that luxury.

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58 minutes ago, Brunners said:

Sorry late replying to this but yes that is exactly what he said. More specifically he said when asked about having Coulson and Bola on the bench "yes, but they're both attack minded players" (or something very close to that)

What can you say to that 🤦‍♂️

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10 hours ago, Brunners said:

Sorry late replying to this but yes that is exactly what he said. More specifically he said when asked about having Coulson and Bola on the bench "yes, but they're both attack minded players" (or something very close to that)

Effectively admitting to wanting to sit back and try and defend for the last half of the game then. 

Though I'm struggling to see the logic of how an attacking midfield player is better defensively than a defender..

I honestly think JW is out of his depth and is making glaring errors which are common with being under pressure.

If we do not get 3 points against Barnsley you have to think its curtains for JW surely?

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I think the a Hull game has pretty much been dissected and the post mortem conclusion is the Woodgate effect. I also conclude should this team have an experienced manager at the helm they would easily be mid table by converting draws to wins. Woody has put himself and the club under a great amount of pressure and the strain is showing up in the team and the fans, the attendance and the boo. Still only two wins and I think we are getting very close to when players give it up as a lost cause and just go through the motions. The club needs a new approach. 

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8 minutes ago, sanddancer said:

Still only two wins and I think we are getting very close to when players give it up as a lost cause and just go through the motions. The club needs a new approach. 

Tomorrow's game is absolutely massive now. If we play well, I think Woodgate might get a stay of execution. If we don't win, or at least play well enough to suggest we're building on the good bits of our performances against Hull and QPR, I personally think it'll be because some of the players already ARE going through the motions. And that generally means the end for a manager, especially one without either residual reserves of goodwill from the fans or the experience to try and implement a plan B.

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3 minutes ago, RiseAgainst said:

Tomorrow's game is absolutely massive now. If we play well, I think Woodgate might get a stay of execution. If we don't win, or at least play well enough to suggest we're building on the good bits of our performances against Hull and QPR, I personally think it'll be because some of the players already ARE going through the motions. And that generally means the end for a manager, especially one without either residual reserves of goodwill from the fans or the experience to try and implement a plan B.

Personally I even think it's gone further than that now. It has to be a win tomorrow night 100%.... A good performance and a draw is not enough now. 

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