The alarm bells are ringing.

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

Dropping 2 points in a game you actually played well in and are desperate to get points from until something daft happens is probably about as bad as it can get for confidence. A lot of the post-game stuff on BBC Tees seemed to be focused on being out of the bottom 3 but I think Woody said it right when he said it's really difficult to take anything positive out of the game. I can't imagine there were many players in that dressing room at full-time thinking "At least we played well in the last 2 games". More likely a case of "what more can we f***ing do to win a game?" or "when are we gonna get a f***ing break?"

 

Or "What the actual f*** Marvin!?"

[Changing Times 12,347]

8 minutes ago, OldManGravz said:

As I said in my first post CT, I think that we seem to be picking up a bit, with only individual mistakes stopping us getting wins in the last couple of games. I'm hoping Woodgate is finding his feet, and improving as a manager as he learns his trade.

I also think that, as Rise Against said, confidence is shot at the minute, and has been since the Pulis reign. Hopefully, with improved performances, confidence will improve, which will improve performances.... yadda yadda yadda.

 

I thought we played well in the first half yesterday but 37 mins of good stuff is a long way from being a good side over 46 games.  In the squad you posted there, our attacking players would be - Fletcher, Walker, O'Neill, Burrell and our central defenders are Fry, McNair, ?, Wood, Mahmutovic and Stubbs.  That's not a Championship calibre team at either end of the pitch.  I don't think that team could even get out of League One if it found itself there.  I'm all for giving youngsters a chance, I've been shouting about it on here for long enough, but it can't be virtually the whole squad, I really don't see that working.

[LinoJo3 3,191]

I have to admit the last couple of games have gave me a bit of hope as there seems to be ‘something’ there now, compared to a few weeks ago when there was just nothing about us.

Im more willing now than I was to see woodgate stay on a while longer to see if we can develop it, because to be fair to woodgate people called for improvements in certain areas and we have improved.

However I also think it’s dangerous to get carried away over a couple of draws against basic championship teams, all we have really done is elevated ourselves from awful to what is expected, we haven’t done anything ‘above and beyond’ that. And most importantly we still can’t seem to play and carry out game plans over the full 90 minutes.

If I had to make a list of major things woodgate needs to improve on I’d say he needs to be more pro active, it seems  he has got better at setting up and sending a team out to play, the problem comes when he needs to alter things during a game and counter opposition changes in tactics. Also I agree with the guy further up and have said myself all season that woodgate is not getting full ‘110 %’ performances from enough players.

[RiseAgainst 3,793]

35 minutes ago, LinoJo3 said:

I agree with the guy further up and have said myself all season that woodgate is not getting full ‘110 %’ performances from enough players.

But if the players aren't giving 100 per cent, only Woodgate can push them to do so. If anything this season, a lot of players seem to have regressed. I agree the last two games have given us four goals, two points and some hope (the second goal against Hull was  excellent teamwork), but there are too many players not giving their all - in particular Wing, Savile and Dijksteel.

If Woodgate can't improve the players, we're effectively sitting around waiting for Lady Luck to shine and make people feel more confident.

[Duvel 2,446]

1 hour ago, OldManGravz said:

If we use these facts as a given in this hypothetical: 1. Woody stays 2. He continues to play this 352 that has been used so far, and 3. That none of our better youngsters are poached by bigger clubs, we can start to build up an idea of next year's squad:

 

GK - Pears, Meijas, Archer

DC - Fry, McNair, ?, Wood, Mahmutovic, Stubbs

DR - Dijksteel, Spence

DL - Bola, Coulson, Reading

MC - Wing, Saville, Tavernier, Liddle, Malley, Wearne

ST - Fletcher, Walker, O'Neill, Burrell

 

This is why I said I don't think things have bottomed out yet. Even if we survive this season the squad is going to be cut quite dramatically. 

If it's anything like this ⬆️ then we are in serious trouble. That is nowhere near a Championship level squad and we will be relying on a failed recruitment setup up bailing us out of the ***. 

[RiseAgainst 3,793]

Of the players in that list, the only ones I'd describe as Championship ready are Meijas, Fry, McNair, Wing, Saville (if he can be bothered), Tav and Fletcher. The others may have promise, but promise doesn't keep you in the second tier.

[Changing Times 12,347]

I doubt Saville will be here.  They wanted rid of him in the summer and it's not like he's been a fixture in the side.  He'll be out the door in January if they can shift him.

[wilsoncgp 9,283]

Fingers crossed 🤞

[Rioch's Braves 711]

I honestly believe its just about staying in this division this season, and seeing what we can do in the pre season.I know we talk about the team not being good enough but surely a different manager would get a lot more out of Fry, Ayala, Coulson, Howson, McNair, Tav, Wing, Fletcher, Britt, and even Johnson, lets be fair non of those mentioned are bad players, you bring in a Neil Warnock type manager and I don't think we would be anywhere near a relegation battle.

I've tried to give Woodgate the benefit of the doubt but its just not working, and the backroom staff clearly aren't good enough to give him the right tactical advice when its needed, he's a rookie manager who's picked the wrong people to help him, I really haven't got a clue what Robbie Keane does.  

[OldManGravz 1,350]

2 hours ago, Changing Times said:

I thought we played well in the first half yesterday but 37 mins of good stuff is a long way from being a good side over 46 games.  In the squad you posted there, our attacking players would be - Fletcher, Walker, O'Neill, Burrell and our central defenders are Fry, McNair, ?, Wood, Mahmutovic and Stubbs.  That's not a Championship calibre team at either end of the pitch.  I don't think that team could even get out of League One if it found itself there.  I'm all for giving youngsters a chance, I've been shouting about it on here for long enough, but it can't be virtually the whole squad, I really don't see that working.

I dont expect that to be the entire squad to be fair, I said I think transfers would be limited but if we have all the outgoings that I speculated I'd expect 2/3 in at least. I just can't speculate who they'd be as I am not really a follower of lower league stuff.

I just filled out the squad with our own youngsters instead.

If Saville goes along with the others as mentioned above, that must give us a bit more breathing room in the finance department to start buying, even at the lower end of my estimates theres over 250k a week made up in wages

[OldManGravz 1,350]

Or maybe I'm just fed up of being negative about all of this 

[Changing Times 12,347]

1 hour ago, wilsoncgp said:

Fingers crossed 🤞

Yeah, as horrible as is it to say, he doesn't really serve much purpose here and it would appear that he isn't rated particularly highly within the club.  Obviously that then begs the question of who wanted him in the first place and why but we've done that one a few times now 🙂 

It is crazy to think that along with Howson, McNair, Saville, Clayton, Wing and Tavernier, we also had Besic, Mikel and even Leadbitter on the books at times last season, just in case we didn't quite have enough midfielders.  And only Howson was signed by that dastardly squad wrecker Garry Monk but thankfully Tony Pulis managed to put it all right 🤭  The Gazette should do another piece about the great work that he did here and indeed the great work our recruitment chaps are doing at this difficult time.

[Changing Times 12,347]

19 minutes ago, OldManGravz said:

I dont expect that to be the entire squad to be fair, I said I think transfers would be limited but if we have all the outgoings that I speculated I'd expect 2/3 in at least. I just can't speculate who they'd be as I am not really a follower of lower league stuff.

Just wait a few more months and you will be 🙃

[Neverbefore 10,942]

2 hours ago, RiseAgainst said:

But if the players aren't giving 100 per cent, only Woodgate can push them to do so. If anything this season, a lot of players seem to have regressed. I agree the last two games have given us four goals, two points and some hope (the second goal against Hull was  excellent teamwork), but there are too many players not giving their all - in particular Wing, Savile and Dijksteel.

If Woodgate can't improve the players, we're effectively sitting around waiting for Lady Luck to shine and make people feel more confident.

I disagree that a lot of players have regressed. I think the only major one from last season is fry but I'm not convinced that he has regained his sharpness after missing the start of the season, so that could be it. Maybe wing, but hes really only had a couple of good months at this level in general. 

 

Howson has been steady but unspectacular, britt has been streaky - sometimes good, long periods of being poor. Fletcher flashes of being decent but not great overall. Ayala has actually been decent this season for us, as of course has randolph. Saville, shotton, clayton all ranging from ok to useless. I'd say all of those follow the same pattern for those players throughout their career at the club (clayton under ak aside).

 

If anything you could say woodgate is getting more out of McNair, Johnson and tav than our previous managers did.

[Denzel Zanzibar 6,972]

We'll be relegated this season.