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Boro v Leeds (A) 0-4


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5 minutes ago, Duvel said:

The current predicament says a lot more about Gibson than it does Woodgate.  

I still can't believe he chose to appoint a total rookie like Woodgate, KNOWING the club doesn't have the funds to invest heavily in the squad.

You can get by with average / poor or just inexperienced players, provided you have a good manager in place who can organise & motivate them.

You can get by with a rookie manager, provided you can support them in the transfer market.

A poor / average or inexperienced squad PLUS a newbie manager is a recipe for disaster.

 

I can't and won't accept there weren't better candidates out there. He just wasn't looking hard enough. This smacks horribly of "jobs for the boys" and it seems this was one too many.

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"we haven't got an on loan player in, so that says it all really" I wonder who's fault that was.  "We've lost a lot of players over the summer and replaced them with the three younger player

For me, I've watched us play a fair few games this year and theres been a sprinkling of us looking good. It's not constant and it's in flashes.  However, what worries me the most is that we just

I still can't believe he chose to appoint a total rookie like Woodgate, KNOWING the club doesn't have the funds to invest heavily in the squad. You can get by with average / poor or just inexperi

4 minutes ago, Borodane said:

I’ve got to the point where I almost don’t care anymore. The losses don’t even set me off anymore. It’s just meh. We’re an insignificant championship team with no ambition. It is what it is

I've been like that since he was appointed, it was so obvious that this was gonna happen in the summer. 

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9 minutes ago, BillinghamBoro said:

Well what is there to say about that? 

That game was the story of Middlesbrough's season in a nutshell. Leeds didn't even need to break out of first gear they just turned up and sliced through our defence and tore us to pieces. 

The team sheet before the games show the state our club is now in, relying on untested youth and league 1 players and praying that they will come good, despite all of the evidence to the contrary. 

Steve Gibsons continuing failures and inadequacies are coming home to roost every time and he seems perfectly accepting of our current plight. 

I don't blame Woodgate for our thin squad, but I blame him for the poor tactics. That criticism is much more than just this game, hell it's not even the first time an opposition has scored 4 past us this season.

Honestly I've never felt so numb and disinterested about Boro, honestly I feel more interested in my local club. 2 draws against mediocre opposition convinced fans we were ok and turned the corner. 

Christ man. 

Well for one, I'd say the Hull game was the story of Middlesbrough's season so far. Anything bright and positive about us finally came to fruition and one daft thing that was actually in our control turned it from positive to utter disaster. I don't think losing 4-0 to Leeds is really reflective of anything this season beyond they're a good team and we're not a good team, something everyone knew before kick off and really shouldn't be so shocked about after.

I also don't think anyone say there even after the Barnsley game thinking we'd turned a corner. Hoping, sure. But the evidence in front of us was beating the bottom team at home by a single goal, it's not awe-inspiring, it's scrappy and required but nothing great.

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19 minutes ago, Denzel Zanzibar said:

Gibson can't afford to sack Woodgate. He also can't afford to support him in the transfer window.

We're ***.

I said before the Barnsley game that I think it'd be telling if Woody kept his job after losing any points to them. I think we're still awaiting that kind of dreadful unbelievable result to compound the misery of this season, I don't think this game is it. I don't think we've seen yet the kind of result that would leave must jobs untenable. If we see that in the next game or the couple of home games beyond that, and Woodgate keeps his job, I'll be firmly of the opinion that we literally can't afford to replace him.

As it is right now, I'm certainly leaning that way. I just don't think there's a great deal of evidence from our summer dealings that we are anything other than a club financially stranded and incapable of making rational decisions (even if we had capable people in charge).

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This is a Leeds team that have laboured to win in a fair number of games this season, they've not blown anyone away until today.

They're a decent side, but we made them look like world beaters.

Final Score were describing it as Premier League against Non-League, that's how bad we were.

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4 minutes ago, Jamie-H said:

I meant tactically we've setup with a 5 3 2 (or 1 1) which I was talking about he's setting us up for Pulis esque 30-37% possession most away games he's not reinventing the wheel he just seems to retread things we did last year but think he has grand answers Pulis didn't going forward that's kind of where I was going with teamsheet more formation/setup than exact name for name 11 players.

I get what you're saying Tav and Wing in midfield are less 'defensive' in mindset than Besic/Clayton and less experienced but he still had a bulk of options that Pulis had even with injuries he takes back 30% possession from Elland Road difference is Pulis could have points to show for his defensive 9 defenders setups and Woodgate's just a poor imitation of Pulis especially away.

I agree with that part about it being a poor imitation.  I said during the week that I don't agree with this fixation with 5-3-2 or whatever when we don't have the players to do it.  McNair was poor today but I don't really want to criticise him because he shouldn't be played there as he's been decent in midfield for us.  The previous two games it was Howson playing there.  Either play one of the younger defenders in their natural position or switch to a back four.  We've got Wing playing as a holding midfielder when he doesn't look suited to it at all, Saville getting back into the side without doing a thing to justify it but simply because McNair had to play at the back.  Clayton must be finished here now if he is behind everyone else in midfield.

My biggest criticism of Woodgate is that he clearly had the intention of playing a completely different way when he got the job and he has gone away from it.  If it was getting results you could at least understand that but it isn't so start being true to yourself and set the team out the way you believe a team should play.  If it fails then it fails but at least you're going down doing things your own way.  He can then rightly point out that he's been completely shafted by Gibson.

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3 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

I said before the Barnsley game that I think it'd be telling if Woody kept his job after losing any points to them. I think we're still awaiting that kind of dreadful unbelievable result to compound the misery of this season, I don't think this game is it. I don't think we've seen yet the kind of result that would leave must jobs untenable. If we see that in the next game or the couple of home games beyond that, and Woodgate keeps his job, I'll be firmly of the opinion that we literally can't afford to replace him.

As it is right now, I'm certainly leaning that way. I just don't think there's a great deal of evidence from our summer dealings that we are anything other than a club financially stranded and incapable of making rational decisions (even if we had capable people in charge).

If you wanted a reason to sack him you could just use the dreadful form over a long period rather than one bad result. 

I agree with you though who would the club appoint next? Leo? Bernie Slaven? Rory? 

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Just now, TeaCider24 said:

This is a Leeds team that have laboured to win in a fair number of games this season, they've not blown anyone apart until today.

They're a decent side, but we made them look like world beaters.

Uh oh, Denzel is gonna kick your head in 🤕

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There are underlying issues that we will never be privy too nor get to hear about from the top.

We are possibly close to the administration season but without the hope of a Manager in the Rioch mould and a group of players who would die for the club.

January window will clearly indicate as to whether or not Gibson is going to accept relegation

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10 minutes ago, wilsoncgp said:

Woodgate shouldn't walk at all. Just like no other manager who is trying the best they can with what tools and experience they've got should. It's not his fault he's not a great manager. It's Gibson's fault for putting us in the position that we needed to hire him. If Woodgate has to leave, it should be firmly the responsibility of the man who hired him to begin with and he should take the hit for that if it's a problem. I don't understand for one second anyone who in their right mind believes he should walk away from this job. Would you? I know I bloody wouldn't.

So, Strachan should have stayed on?  No.

Woodgate is out of his depth; sure he's got excuses piled up now, but the entire season has been a mess.  No tactical awareness, no game plan, no improvement from pre-season.  He had a decent enough squad from last year, added a couple of players that he specifically wanted, and has somehow come up with a sluggish, inept mess.  There's enough quality in the squad that we shouldn't be near the bottom.

Yes, Gibson shouldn't have hired him.  No it's not his fault he did.  But he surely knows by now that whatever his grand powerpoint plan was, it doesn't work and he clearly doesn't have the skills or knowledge to do anything about it.

Would I walk away?  If I was rich enough not to need the work, was personally overseeing my team on the worst run in 30 years, facing relegation, had no clue how to fix it and (apparently) have a boss who won't support me?  Yes.

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I would love Woody to admit defeat and walk away but that's never ever going to happen. The guy is deluded and completely inept.

He got put in charge because he is a YES man for Gibson and he is going to continue to be a YES man for Gibson until the end of the season.

I said months ago after information I received, if we are still in this position end of Feb going in March then we will look at making a change but until then Woodgate's going nowhere unless he goes by himself.

The whole club is a complete mess from bottom to top and more cuts are happening throughout the club.

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I did not expect anything different as I’m sure others didn’t either. Statistics show in two consecutive games we have managed 31% possession and won one and hammered in the other. Surly, surly time must be called on Woodgate and at least get someone in to stabilise and improve this squad. 

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On the way back from the game now but we were totally outclassed everywhere on the pitch. Not one player performed today. I am proud of the fans thought for staying to the bitter end. As it was game over after 3 mins think we only had 1 shoot on target whole game 

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Woodgate probably won't walk away from a big pay off and you could argue why should he? Gibson has put him into this position. 

I suppose the counter argument to that is that if he loves the club as much as he says he does then should he walk away for the good of the club. 

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