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15 hours ago, RealSlimSladeyy said:

Karanka did extremely well prior to being backed substantially. He turned around the 2013/14 season. Yes, he was backed a lot more in 2014/15 and especially 2015/16 but he already proved he could do it on a budget. 

Plus, how I felt about boro under Karanka... Well, I’d never felt that way before and I’ve never felt that way since. He made me feel proud to support that team. He brought the whole town together. He provided unforgettable moments. He represented something exciting. He promised avenues he ultimately never delivered upon but for a while I really believed everything was going to be okay. Call it rose tinted glasses or whatever you want, I *** love him. 

This. This. This. And this again. 

We've had nothing but disappointment either side of his appointment, the only beacon of hope in a dire decade. Bring him back. 

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19 hours ago, boroie said:

This. This. This. And this again. 

We've had nothing but disappointment either side of his appointment, the only beacon of hope in a dire decade. Bring him back. 

Well you definitely are wearing rose-tinted glasses if you think everything was that great under Karanka.

Undoubtedly he was a far better rookie manager than Woodgate.

However, we were cruising to automatic promotion in 15/16 but managed to draw our final 4 games, so had to go through the play-offs again.

He also showed that, despite substantial backing, he was completely out of his depth in the PL, the following season.

Then there were those well-publicised training ground bust-ups...to the point he was told to stay away from training sessions.

Similar thing happened to him at Forest.

 

So while I would be happier if he was in charge right now, I would be braced for potential problems at some point.

 

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2 hours ago, AnglianRed said:

Well you definitely are wearing rose-tinted glasses if you think everything was that great under Karanka.

Undoubtedly he was a far better rookie manager than Woodgate.

However, we were cruising to automatic promotion in 15/16 but managed to draw our final 4 games, so had to go through the play-offs again.

Not saying we didn't crawl to promotion in the end, but it was automatic and not via the play-offs.

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3 hours ago, AnglianRed said:

Well you definitely are wearing rose-tinted glasses if you think everything was that great under Karanka.

Undoubtedly he was a far better rookie manager than Woodgate.

However, we were cruising to automatic promotion in 15/16 but managed to draw our final 4 games, so had to go through the play-offs again.

He also showed that, despite substantial backing, he was completely out of his depth in the PL, the following season.

Then there were those well-publicised training ground bust-ups...to the point he was told to stay away from training sessions.

Similar thing happened to him at Forest.

 

So while I would be happier if he was in charge right now, I would be braced for potential problems at some point.

 

We finished 2nd in 2015-2016, automatic promotion.  He got us to the playoff final in 2014-2015, his first full season in charge.  All of that sounds pretty great compared to anything either side of it in the last decade.

Substantial backing?  Are we talking the glories of the January window and Gestede and Guedioura?  I don't honestly believe either was someone Karanka actually wanted.   Or the summer before the PL where we loaned in an ageing starting striker, a handful of cheap fillers and the only real expense was De Roon? 

We backed Monk with more spending than we did Karanka our PL season. 

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On 12/7/2019 at 12:49 AM, Denzel Zanzibar said:

The only issue I have with Karanka is I don't think he's cut out to be a PL manager

We had some impressive results and performances in that PL season against Top 10 teams with a net spend of 17m (De Roon making up the majority of this net with a 13m fee). The whole club were not invested in the project and a few individuals in the background were working against AK. Imagine the difference if we were able to add to the squad with some of the names linked below in 2016/17:

Lukas Rupp (signed for TSG 1899 Hoffenheim)

Aissa Mandi (signed for Real Betis) 

Dennis Praet (signed for Sampdoria)

James Morrison (signed a contract extension at West Brom)

Michail Antonio (signed a contract extension with West Ham)

Clément Grenier 

Clement Chantome (signed for Stade Rennais)

Hakim Ziyech

Domagoj Vida 

Tim Krul

Khouma Babacar

Thomas Meunier (signed for PSG)

Neven Subotic (deal fell through after failed medical)

Harry Maguire

Enzo Fernández

Gerard Deulofeu

Fernando Llorente (signed for Swansea) 

Tomas Kalas (signed for Fulham) 

Laurent Depoitre

Jefferson Montero

Alvaro Arbeloa (signed for West Ham) 

Denis Cheryshev

Rachid Ghezzal

Filip Djordjevic

Kenneth Vermeer

Jon Walters

Cheick Tiote

Henri Bedimo

Rachid Ghezzal

Gökhan Gönül

Keiren Westwood

Pepe Reina

Martin Skrtel (signed for Fenerbahçe) 

Cameron Jerome

Sergi Samper

Ryan Bennett

Cristi Săpunaru

Mike van der Hoorn (signed for Swansea)

Blerim Džemaili

Lee Cattermole

Matt Philips (signed for West Brom)

Chris Gunter

Ramadel Falcao

Matz Sels (signed for Newcastle)

Vincent Aboubakar

Martin Caceres

Nicolai Jorgensen

Santiago Arias

Tomáš Necid

Jeff Hendrick (signed for Burnley)

Robin Van Persie

Demarai Grey

Filip Helander

Yakou Meite (signed for Reading)

Andre Ayew

Wesley Hoedt

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On 12/8/2019 at 2:48 PM, macapes said:

We finished 2nd in 2015-2016, automatic promotion.  He got us to the playoff final in 2014-2015, his first full season in charge.  All of that sounds pretty great compared to anything either side of it in the last decade.

Substantial backing?  Are we talking the glories of the January window and Gestede and Guedioura?  I don't honestly believe either was someone Karanka actually wanted.   Or the summer before the PL where we loaned in an ageing starting striker, a handful of cheap fillers and the only real expense was De Roon? 

We backed Monk with more spending than we did Karanka our PL season. 

Substantial backing in terms of building a squad to finish mid-table. Also the total amount spent isn't necessarily indicative, given you can sometimes get good players for free:

 

Bernardo Espinosa (Sporting Gijón) - Free

Viktor Fischer (Ajax) - £3,800,000

Marten de Roon (Atalanta) - £12,000,000

Víctor Valdés (Manchester United) - Free

Antonio Barragán (Valencia) - £3,000,000

Gastón Ramírez ( Southampton) - Free

Brad Guzan (Aston Villa) - Free

Fábio (Cardiff City) - £2,000,000

Adama Traoré (Aston Villa) - £7,500,000

Rudy Gestede (Aston Villa) - £6,000,000

Patrick Bamford (Chelsea) - £6,000,000

Adlène Guedioura (Watford) - £4,500,000

 

...so, the best part of £45 million. Not too shabby for a first season back in the PL. Whether we bought wisely is another question.

But you would think a capable manager would have been able to have us finish at least above the relegation zone, with that lot, combined with the rest of our squad at the time.

 

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Nice copy and paste.  🙂 

So, we have four frees.  We have Fischer and Traore who were both "projects". 

We can ignore Gestede and Guedioura as they were idiotic January buys that were in no way backing Karanka.   Bamford was January as well, and had barely played.  

So, going into the PL season we bought De Roon, a proper expense on a player.  We bought Barragan and Fabio at less then £3m each.  And we loaned in a starting striker.  

So, no I don't consider that as substantial banking for the PL season.  I consider the fact we wouldn't buy a PL striker and instead loaned one a clear sign that we expected to be relegated, and the likes of Barragan, Espinosa, Fabio, Bamford, Gestede, Traore and Fischer were all bought with one eye on a return to the Championship.  

And despite that he kept us out of the relegation zone and was sacked the week we dropped into it without being given a chance to get us back out - and replaced with Gibbo's mate, who performed worse.

I don't worship the guy - but he was a damn sight better than anyone else we've had since we dropped, and his promotion winning side was cheap compared to what we have to work with now.

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5 hours ago, Ayresome7 said:

We had some impressive results and performances in that PL season against Top 10 teams with a net spend of 17m (De Roon making up the majority of this net with a 13m fee). The whole club were not invested in the project and a few individuals in the background were working against AK. Imagine the difference if we were able to add to the squad with some of the names linked below in 2016/17:

We weren't actually interested in most of those though.  It's naming every player anyone on here mentioned isn't it?

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47 minutes ago, macapes said:

And despite that he kept us out of the relegation zone and was sacked the week we dropped into it without being given a chance to get us back out - and replaced with Gibbo's mate, who performed worse.

So he didn't keep us out of the relegation zone then in actual fact?  I don't believe he was sacked because we found ourselves in the bottom three.  I think he was sacked because we'd moved into March and our last win was in the middle of December.  We'd managed 3 goals in 10 games, our previous couple of games had been abysmal performances against Palace (who were below us if I remember rightly) and then Stoke, where it appeared to be clear that the players weren't playing for him for whatever reason.  I think he got shafted to a certain extent by our transfer business but he was also in charge of a squad that appeared to have given up and he didn't seem to know how to get anything else out of them.

Nothing needs to be said about Gibson handing it over to Agnew.  That was just Gibson being Gibson, unfortunately.

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1 hour ago, Changing Times said:

We weren't actually interested in most of those though.  It's naming every player anyone on here mentioned isn't it?

We had deals agreed for Mandi, Ziyech, Deleufeo, subotic which fell through for different reasons. Llorente was our number 1 striker target and we wanted a DM from Porto rather than De Roon. I remember Dennis Praet being quite heavily linked also with either his dad or agent mentioning interest from us in foreign media articles.

Llorente and Deleofeu where Karankas choices, Ziyech was scouted but we went with Fischer for whatever reason.

A front 3 of Ziyech, Llorente and Deleofeu would have been 10 times better than what we got! 

That said I didn’t mind Negredo, I thought he was far better than he got credit for and suffered from a horrible lack of support, supply and talent in that area of the pitch. By the end of that season I think he had contributed to 70-75% of our goals either scoring or assisting.

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I don't think we had a deal agreed for Ziyech, but the rest I remember to be the case. Subotic fell through for fitness reasons, Deulofeu becasue of the Sissoko deal and Mandi chose La Liga and Betis (understandable). Praet I don't think we had a deal for either. We wanted him but I don't think it was ever on the cards to come here. I think him and his dad used our interest to get a deal in Italy.

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I never said we had a deal agreed for praet, I said we had a strong interest in signing him. 

Also some London journo tweeted after Ziyech had tortured spurs that we had him at our training ground that season we went up but decided against signing him in favour of Fischer.

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41 minutes ago, LinoJo3 said:

We had deals agreed for Mandi, Ziyech, Deleufeo, subotic which fell through for different reasons. Llorente was our number 1 striker target and we wanted a DM from Porto rather than De Roon. I remember Dennis Praet being quite heavily linked also with either his dad or agent mentioning interest from us in foreign media articles.

Llorente and Deleofeu where Karankas choices, Ziyech was scouted but we went with Fischer for whatever reason.

A front 3 of Ziyech, Llorente and Deleofeu would have been 10 times better than what we got! 

That said I didn’t mind Negredo, I thought he was far better than he got credit for and suffered from a horrible lack of support, supply and talent in that area of the pitch. By the end of that season I think he had contributed to 70-75% of our goals either scoring or assisting.

I don't think we had deals agreed for them all and we wouldn't have signed some of them if we'd signed the others, which needs to be considered.  There's a big difference between looking at someone and actually really pushing to sign them.  Those you named there we probably had a greater interest in but that doesn't mean we had deals agreed for them all or had a real chance of signing them.

A front three of Ziyech, Llorente and Deulofeu might have been good but I don't believe that was ever a serious possibility.  You have to be realistic about things.  We signed Fischer quite early in that transfer window, well before Ziyech moved if I remember rightly, so it's logical to conclude that either we really wanted Fischer more or we were aware that Ziyech wasn't a possibility.  There was obviously an interest in signing Ramirez after having him here on loan so you'd also have to think that his signing was also going to lead to a different attacker not being signed.  Llorente you'd think was a possibility but again we signed Negredo before he moved to Swansea so either we wanted him more or he wasn't interested in coming here.  Even with Subotic, we'd already signed Espinosa before that deal fell through because of his injury/health issue so he would have been signed as well as him and we probably wouldn't have signed Chambers, who I thought did ok for us, and certainly better than Espinosa.   You can list every player we were linked with and say if we'd signed such and such then things might have been better but I don't think that takes a lot of things into account.  We certainly could have ended up with some better players of course.  I wish we had.

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